RaboPro12 13/14 season thread

Swiwi.

emmet02 and RuggieBear, please kiss and make up.

Apparently, Faletau is staying put in Wales...

awec

Predictions:

Playoffs - Ulster, Leinster, Glasgow, Munster (not in that order)

The rest - Zebre to get a win, Connact to move up a few places.

Tox56

From a Leinster POV: Want/expect playoffs in some form, home or away. Would be very happy with a top 2 finish.

I'd tip Ulster for 1st and probably the title too. With the squad they have this is their year to win a trophy

irishbucsfan

I predict someone not doing well in the H Cup to win it.

Teferi

awec wrote: »

Playoffs - Ulster, Leinster, Glasgow, Munster (not in that order)

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I predict someone not doing well in the H Cup to win it.

Jaysus lads, serious predictions! Haven't a clue how you came to them.

awec

Teferi wrote: »

Jaysus lads, serious predictions! Haven't a clue how you came to them.

Picked them out of my arse.

Teferi

awec wrote: »

Picked them out of my arse.

I just looked back on the table there - the only time in the last while that 3 Irish teams have made the final 4 is 2010/11, the rest of the time it seems to be 2 Irish teams, 1 Welsh and 1 Scottish which is appropriate I reckon.

awec

I reckoned that Leinster are still very strong, we should make the playoffs, Glasgow are a great team and I put Munster in for an easy life.

thomond2006

Last year's table:

1. Ulster
2. Leinster
3. Glasgow Warriors
4. Scarlets
5. Ospreys
6. Munster
7. Treviso
8. Connacht
9. Cardiff
10. Edinburgh
11. Dragons
12. Zebre

I wouldn't expect this season's final table to differ much from the above to be honest. However Scarlets have lost a number of quality players and I can't see them challenging for a playoff spot. The loss of Fotuali'i to Ospreys is significant, plus Webb will miss a lot of the season with a knee injury. If Munster can keep the injury count down then they should challenge for a playoff spot.

So I'd go for:

1. Ulster (--)
2. Leinster (--)
3. Glasgow (--)
4. Munster (+2)
5. Ospreys (+1)
6. Scarlets (-2)
7. Connacht (+1)
8. Treviso (-1)
9. Cardiff (--)
10. Edinburgh (--)
11. Dragons (--)
12. Zebre (--)

Buer

Tox56 wrote: »

From a Leinster POV: Want/expect playoffs in some form, home or away. Would be very happy with a top 2 finish.

I'd tip Ulster for 1st and probably the title too. With the squad they have this is their year to win a trophy

This season or bust for Ulster. Afoa, Pienaar and Muller are all on their bike at the end of this season. If their big players can keep fit, they've a fantastic chance and would be my favourites for the title. I think the HEC is a step too far for them still but they've enough talent to take the league title comfortably.

Glasgow will have a big battle on their hands. They've moved from also rans to genuine contenders and a threat. Teams won't take them lightly or rest players against them this season which will mean a much tougher campaign.

Leinster have a fight on their hands. A lot of transition this season means a home play off would be a very successful campaign.

Munster have a lot of question marks around them also. They've lost a lot of experience in the shape of ROG and Howlett. Guys who could deliver big moments and keep their heads when all around were losing theirs. A play off would be a solid return for them.

Connacht have more expectation on them than any province in many ways. They've brought in a S15 coach and several very decent players. They need to deliver more this season and the IRFU will be keeping a close eye. With such a turnover in terms of personnel, I'm not sure how much improvement we'll see. Rome wasn't built in a day. Sides like the Dragons have done some decent recruiting too so the playing field could remain similar.

awec

I'm genuinely worried we'll win nothing this year again. What a shame that would be.

jamiedav2011

awec wrote: »

I'm genuinely worried we'll win nothing this year again. What a shame that would be.

It's getting to crunch time now for Ulster. Have made fairly gradual improvement generally in last two years, it's put up time now.

P_1

Glasgow will be without their lively Fijian scrum half for a few weeks, seems he picked up a knee injury in preseason

Hagz

Yeah Ulster need to pick up silverware this season more than ever imo.

AngeGal

Connacht to get 45 points plus. Ulster to win it.

jacothelad

P_1 wrote: »

Glasgow will be without their lively Fijian scrum half for a few weeks, seems he picked up a knee injury in preseason

Broken metatarsal. 4 - 6 weeks usually.

bilston

There are five contenders and they are Ulster, Leinster, Glasgow, Ospreys and Munster. The Scarlets may force themselves into the Play Offs but realistically the title will go to one of the five above.

I make us slight favourites and hopefully we'll be a bit luckier with injuries this season. As some have said it may be a case of now or never with the real potential of us losing some or maybe even all our NIQs. Luckily most of our homegrown players are pretty young so I don't see this season being the end of an era (NIQS can be replaced after all) and one of those young bucks, Luke Marshall, is a guy who I'm expecting to have a massive season and not just in the white of Ulster.

Leinster are still a major force but it will be interesting to see how they react to losing Sexton and Nacewa. I think Madigan will do well and indeed if he comes off he will do more than well, Gopperth is also a canny signing. I'm not sure about Kirchner in the crunch HEC games but at Pro 12 level I expect he will stand out a bit, if not to Nacewa's very high standards. One other thing is that I'd love to see some of Leinster's young back rowers kick on this season. Dom Ryan, Ruddock and Murphy being the obvious three.

Did last season's win over Quins paper over the cracks for Munster or are they back? They have real quality at the top end of their squad in O'Connell, Ryan, O'Mahony, Murray, Earls and Zebo, but the problem is how much will these guys play in the league? They'll be in the mix but to what extent probably depends on how seriously they take the competition.

Glasgow have to be a real threat this season, they have some great young talent out wide in Hogg, Bennett and Dunbar as well as their more established players and of course their little 9 (who I've just discovered is out for the first month) is a smashing player. I think they lost Barclay who bizarrely has joined the Scarlets which is a blow, Barclay is a very good player. Still the experience of last season may stand to them and I think they will make the Plays Offs again.

The Ospreys have lost Fotuali'i which is a massive blow but they have brought in Tebaldi as a replacement and I wonder whether Sam Davies will get a run for them at 10, they always seem to be there or thereabouts and if they avoid too many big injuries I think they'll be close again.

If I was pushed I'd say Ulster, Glasgow and Leinster will be in the top four (in that order) and I think it will be a toss up between Munster and the Ospreys for 4th place. No doubt I'll be proven totally wrong!

Paul Smeenus

My concern is our (Ulster's) backrow.

Wilson is having injury problems again, apparently, and despite the fact that Williams is an eye-catching force of nature, I think that Wilson is our best 8 - in defense, work-rate, positionally and very much at the base of the scrum. We spent almost the whole of last season with 2/3rds of our best backrow out (Ferris and Wilson), and having at least Wilson available would really lend a steadying hand.

The onus is on us to deliver – it’s Anscombe’s second season, he’s bedded in, there’s continuity in the players and, quite apart from the emergence of Olding, last season saw valuable time on the pitch for players bubbling under like Heaney, Allen, Cochrane. I’m hoping McAllister and Farrell make a decent splash, and Doyle proves useful.

Conversely, I think Leinster will find it harder going this season than many others seem to.

Munster I expect to be improved geenrally, and Glasgow I think will be the real deal.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

My concern is our (Ulster's) backrow.

Wilson is having injury problems again, apparently, and despite the fact that Williams is an eye-catching force of nature, I think that Wilson is our best 8 - in defense, work-rate, positionally and very much at the base of the scrum. We spent almost the whole of last season with 2/3rds of our best backrow out (Ferris and Wilson), and having at least Wilson available would really lend a steadying hand.

The onus is on us to deliver – it’s Anscombe’s second season, he’s bedded in, there’s continuity in the players and, quite apart from the emergence of Olding, last season saw valuable time on the pitch for players bubbling under like Heaney, Allen, Cochrane. I’m hoping McAllister and Farrell make a decent splash, and Doyle proves useful.

Conversely, I think Leinster will find it harder going this season than many others seem to.

Munster I expect to be improved geenrally, and Glasgow I think will be the real deal.

It would be great to see Roger get fit as quickly as possible. I agree he is our best No.8. It will be interesting to watch Sean Doyle this season, we missed genuine back up to Henry at times last season so hopefully Doyle stays fit and goes well.

As for Leinster, yes they will find it harder, but I think they have enough quality to get into the play offs and probably top 3

Paul Smeenus

If we could get top spot again, I'd fancy us against anyone.

If, if, if...

Rigor Mortis

I would love to be wrong, but i dont think this Ulster team have it in them to win a final and I think that form wise last year was their best shot.

Leinster will fall back a bit, struggling to remain competitive on two fronts. Unless their back line stays remarkably injury free i think that play - offs and semis are the limit for them.

Munster to make small gains but only small ones.

Connacht, who knows what can be done under a new coaching ticket, will be interesting though.

Glasgow to build on last year unless they get an awful start. I think they should have it in them to win the league. In the context of a bigger picture regarding the attractiveness of the competition to sponsors, broadcasters etc, a non Irish win might be useful.

Scarlets and Ospreys to disappoint, Treviso to continue the curve upward.

Paul Smeenus

I think that if last season's final had been in Ravenhill, we would have won. People forget how big a factor the surrender of home adavantage was.

I'd be surprised if we were as good this season as last, but we don't need to be. I don't expect Leinster, Scarlets or the Ospreys to be as good either.

awec

The fixture list will also play a part. We end the season with 4 tough fixtures in a row, I wouldn't like to be needing wins in all of them going in to it.

Paul Smeenus

True. It also depends on how our HEC campaign goes.

On other words, at this stage, no idea!

dregin

awec wrote: »

I'm genuinely worried we'll win nothing this year again. What a shame that would be.

And with Rory Mc on the downturn, your payroll's gonna have to take a bit of a dive too..... hooooooooooo

Paul Smeenus

dregin wrote: »

And with Rory Mc on the downturn, your payroll's gonna have to take a bit of a dive too..... hooooooooooo

Williams on buttons, Muller and Afoa gone.

Pienaar will still be on the big bucks. Jared Payne... first project player to get a central contract? How would people feel about that?

phog

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

I would love to be wrong, but i dont think this Ulster team have it in them to win a final and I think that form wise last year was their best shot.

Leinster will fall back a bit, struggling to remain competitive on two fronts. Unless their back line stays remarkably injury free i think that play - offs and semis are the limit for them.

Munster to make small gains but only small ones.

Connacht, who knows what can be done under a new coaching ticket, will be interesting though.

Glasgow to build on last year unless they get an awful start. I think they should have it in them to win the league. In the context of a bigger picture regarding the attractiveness of the competition to sponsors, broadcasters etc, a non Irish win might be useful.

Scarlets and Ospreys to disappoint, Treviso to continue the curve upward.

Ulster's downfall last year was taking the final to the RDS, I know the final is managed by Rabo but it was still home to Leinster and was an away game for Ulster, this season if Ulster top the table and get through to the final then they'll have the game in Ravenhill and will be much harder to beat there.

This season I'd be hoping for a marked improvement from Munster, some of the games we lost were sickening and for me this season should be all about a big step up in the league, the H/cup is the be all and end all from a competition point of view but the league is our bread and butter, the development and progression of our squad depends on a strong league performance. It should be a top prioirity this season for Munster to aim for a Top 2 place.
In saying all that give me another H/cup semi final game this season and I'd be happy to take the chance of getting into the final.

dregin

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Jared Payne... first project player to get a central contract? How would people feel about that?

Think he'd be well worth it. It's worth noting that all players in Ireland are contracted to the IRFU and the notion of a "central contract" is where the IRFU pay 100% of their wage. They still pay a percentage of everyone else's salary. Or something.

Tox56

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I think that if last season's final had been in Ravenhill, we would have won. People forget how big a factor the surrender of home adavantage was.

In theory yes, but Leinster learned the hard way home advantage in a final is no guarantee of anything. In saying that if Ulster are in the same position this season at Ravenhill you'd expect them to win. Will the capacity with the new stands alllow Ulster to host the final now?

Paul Smeenus

I'm not sure. It won't be finished, but there may be ways and means of arranging temporary stands etc so it could.

Having said that, the RDS woudl be "home" for us against anyone but Leinster and possibly Munster.

melekalikimaka

Tox56 wrote: »

I Will the capacity with the new stands alllow Ulster to host the final now?

yes

bilston

melekalikimaka wrote: »

yes

From 2014/15 it will, but will it next Spring?

Rigor Mortis

phog wrote: »

Ulster's downfall last year was taking the final to the RDS, I know the final is managed by Rabo but it was still home to Leinster and was an away game for Ulster, this season if Ulster top the table and get through to the final then they'll have the game in Ravenhill and will be much harder to beat there.

This season I'd be hoping for a marked improvement from Munster, some of the games we lost were sickening and for me this season should be all about a big step up in the league, the H/cup is the be all and end all from a competition point of view but the league is our bread and butter, the development and progression of our squad depends on a strong league performance. It should be a top prioirity this season for Munster to aim for a Top 2 place.
In saying all that give me another H/cup semi final game this season and I'd be happy to take the chance of getting into the final.

Ulster had won at the RDS before. Fortress RDS, Thomond or Ravenhill will be diminished in an All Ireland final due to the relatively equal allocation of tickets. There is way more to winning a final than home advantage and it starts with the six inches between your ears. I would like to be wrong, because I think Ulster are the best hope we have to get to a Heineken final next year, but i dont think Ulster will do it on the really big stage.

Paul Smeenus

Dunno - isn't there a great deal made out of Munster having to lose in a couple of finals before they had the right mentality to win an HEC?

Buer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Williams on buttons, Muller and Afoa gone.

Pienaar will still be on the big bucks. Jared Payne... first project player to get a central contract? How would people feel about that?

Pienaar's contract will be up too. Given that Ulster were already allowed to extend his contract once and he'll have had 4 years in Ireland, I think he'll be shown the door too.

Other factors will possibly come into play also. Ulster have an Irish international sitting on the bench and Munster have been reportedly keen to sign a NIQ scrum half but weren't allowed.

Buer

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Ulster had won at the RDS before. Fortress RDS, Thomond or Ravenhill will be diminished in an All Ireland final due to the relatively equal allocation of tickets. There is way more to winning a final than home advantage and it starts with the six inches between your ears. I would like to be wrong, because I think Ulster are the best hope we have to get to a Heineken final next year, but i dont think Ulster will do it on the really big stage.

Tend to agree in relation to the HEC. I think they're short one or two players from being HEC winners. Without Ferris, their back row is still short on being at that level. Williams, Diack and Henry is a really good, solid unit but will not strike fear into the top sides. Despite Ulster winning 2/3 games against them this season, Leinster controlled the breakdown more effectively in all three encounters. They need Ferris back and a better player at the base of the scrum. Williams is world class at certain aspects of the game but he's sorely lacking in several others.

They need Jackson to keep at the level he was pre-Christmas also. His drop in form for about 2-3 months was not good enough for a side aiming to win Europe's top prize.

Paul Smeenus

Buer wrote: »

Pienaar's contract will be up too. Given that Ulster were already allowed to extend his contract once and he'll have had 4 years in Ireland, I think he'll be shown the door too.

Other factors will possibly come into play also. Ulster have an Irish international sitting on the bench and Munster have been reportedly keen to sign a NIQ scrum half but weren't allowed.

Describing Paul Marshall as an "Irish international" is technically correct, but I don't think the IRFU are busting a gut to see him get more gametime.

I also don't see much difference between giving Pienaar another contract and Botha getting a new contract in May - he'd been in Ireland for five years when he signed his latest extension, was older than Pienaar will be when his contract is up, and plays in a more problematic postion, IQ-personnel-wise. If we don't replace Muller, they might let us keep him.

On the other hand, let's see how he plays this season, given it'll be his thrid season of year-round playing. Him being absolutely knackered might be a significant hurdle for Ulster. He might need to lie down for six months after next May.

Having said that, I don't think we can complain if we're not allowed to renew his contract. We have had a significant strech with him at the tiller.

Paul Smeenus

Buer wrote: »

Williams, Diack and Henry is a really good, solid unit but will not strike fear into the top sides. Despite Ulster winning 2/3 games against them this season, Leinster controlled the breakdown more effectively in all three encounters. They need Ferris back and a better player at the base of the scrum.

Exactly - Wilson.

Buer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Describing Paul Marshall as an "Irish international" is technically correct, but I don't think the IRFU are busting a gut to see him get more gametime.

I also don't see much difference between giving Pienaar another contract and Botha getting a new contract in May - he'd been in Ireland for five years when he signed his latest extension, was older than Pienaar will be when his contract is up, and plays in a more problematic postion, IQ-personnel-wise. If we don't replace Muller, they might let us keep him.

They might be allowed to keep him but, similar to Munster, they'll have to give some leeway. Munster had to cut short WdP's contract to keep Botha. I think Munster also had the argument of turning to the IRFU and pointing to Stephen Archer whilst exclaiming "Come on! You can't be serious?"

I know Marshall isn't exactly top class. I don't rate him highly at all but he has started big HEC games when Pienaar wasn't there which puts him into a different bracket to someone like Archer who is untested completely at that level.

With the number of departures in Ulster next season, I do think there'll be some deal cut though. The most likely, I'd have thought, would be allowing them to sign another big name tighthead to replace Afoa based on the fact that Botha will be on his bike too and Leinster won't have any NIQ tighthead.

Buer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Exactly - Wilson.

Big fan of Wilson as a player. Very intelligent, decent skills and works hard but not sure he's the answer. I think he's very reliable but age is against him now (33 at start of season) and he has a significant injury run in the past year.

I'm not sure Anscombe sees him as a more influential option than Williams either.

molloyjh

This season could be one of the more interesting seasons the league has seen. Leinster are still a force to be reckoned with, but having lost a huge component to their game in Sexton as well as one of the best coaches around in Joe there really is no telling what the coming months have in store for Leinster fans. The loss of Nacewa is huge as well, but also the loss of Carr and Conway depleting an already threadbare situation in the back 3, will have massive implications on their league form. That Sideshow won't be here until November is the final kick in the sore parts with all of the above. You'd expect Leinster to be there or there-abouts though wouldn't you?

Ulster need to win something this year after the last few years of knocking on the door. With their NIQs probably leaving at the end of the season this could pose serious problems for them next year. The loss of Muller alone will be massive. We've seen the difference he can make at times. And Pienaar too obviously. There's still plenty of talent in the side, but the pack short of Afoa and Muller with Pienaar bossing them surely can't be as strong as it is now.

Then there's Munster, who looked a shadow of their former selves for much of last season. But they seemed to come good towards the end (final dead rubber game aside) and with Stander, van der Heever and Conway all coming into the side they seem to be getting over their transition period. The big question mark for Munster is whether Keatley can make his mark at out-half. Plenty of us were pushing for his selection over ROG last season, now he doesn't have anyone ahead of him can Keately deliver the goods?

Connacht have made easily the best signing of the year in Craig Clarke and with Lam in charge could see serious improvements this season. Certainly if you compare the players out to the players in they have come out of the summer very well. I wouldn't be surprised to see them push up a few spots on the table this season.

The team I'm tipping this year though is Glasgow. They will be missing their scrum-half to injury for a few weeks, but they seemed last season to have more than just a reliance on a single player. They became a very well drilled side as last season progressed and were easily the most improved team over the course of the season. Townsend is doing some really good work up there and I reckon we'll see them start this season the way they ended last.

Ospreys are always in and around the play-offs, but they'll probably struggle again this season I think. Both themselves and Scarlets have lost a few players and have failed to adequately replace them. Outside of these sides I can't see much changing. Treviso will improve, but Edinburgh, Cardiff, Newport and Zebre will all continue to struggle.

Either way I reckon Glasgow will do well this season where-as it's hard to tell how any of the Irish provinces will fare at this stage. I'm going to go with the below with at least 8-10 point gaps between 4th and 5th as well as 8th and 9th.

1. Glasgow
2. Ulster
3. Leinster
4. Munster

5. Ospreys
6. Scarlet
7. Treviso
8. Connacht

9. Edinburgh
10. Cardiff
11. Newport
12. Zebre

The interesting thing being that we've no idea really how the top 3 Irish provinces will do this year. That could easily throw the cat amongst the pigeons and narrow (or even close completely) the gap between the top 4 and the middle 4.

bilston

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Ulster had won at the RDS before. Fortress RDS, Thomond or Ravenhill will be diminished in an All Ireland final due to the relatively equal allocation of tickets. There is way more to winning a final than home advantage and it starts with the six inches between your ears. I would like to be wrong, because I think Ulster are the best hope we have to get to a Heineken final next year, but i dont think Ulster will do it on the really big stage.

I think you're being a bit harsh, we've only been to two finals with this current side, we lost one to a much better side in 2012 and last season while the gap had clearly closed a lot we just lot to more canny side who know how to win cup finals. Now maybe that proves your point to an extent but I'm not sure you can come to your conclusion on the back of one final defeat (not including the 2012 HEC final where as I say Leinster would have beaten any team in the NH out the gate).

Paul Smeenus

Buer wrote: »

Big fan of Wilson as a player. Very intelligent, decent skills and works hard but not sure he's the answer. I think he's very reliable but age is against him now (33 at start of season) and he has a significant injury run in the past year.

I'm not sure Anscombe sees him as a more influential option than Williams either.

I think he does - he started away against Northampton in the HEC.

Not much use to us on the physio's table, however. I'm worried he's come back just as he starts to fade.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Pienaar's contract will be up too. Given that Ulster were already allowed to extend his contract once and he'll have had 4 years in Ireland, I think he'll be shown the door too.

Other factors will possibly come into play also. Ulster have an Irish international sitting on the bench and Munster have been reportedly keen to sign a NIQ scrum half but weren't allowed.

It should be remembered that NIQs can be replaced with other NIQs. Afoa will almost certainly be gone and I imagine Muller will retire and I dopn't know what will happen with Williams but I suppose he could be gone.

However I keep banging on about this and I will continue to do so but provided the finance is there (and to be fair it might not be) how on earth can the IRFU view having Ruan Pienaar in Ireland as a bad thing? If having Pienaar at Ulster means the likes of Jackson, Marshall, Olding, Trimble, Bowe, Payne and Gilroy are playing knockout HEC rugby then I just can't fathom for a millisecond why the IRFU wouldn't want to keep him in Ireland. Also the argument that Munster want to sign a NIQ scrum half makes abosultely no sense at all given they have an Irish test Lion at scrum half.

Buer

Not all NIQ players are signed to start. Nathan White, Quinn Roux etc. Munster don't have a decent quality back up scrum half. I don't agree with it but this is supposedly how the guidelines work so if they were to sign one, Ulster would be up against it to re-sign Pienaar. Munster had to get AIL player to take a short term contract for this season. I'm sure they'd much rather be able to sign a Currie Cup scrum half to start 15 games a season rather than rely on their other options which they don't appear to particularly rate.

Agree on the concept that the presence of better players allows young players partake at a higher level. Pienaar takes a huge amount of pressure off Jackson and lets him develop steadily. It's a touch of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

dregin

bilston wrote: »

However I keep banging on about this and I will continue to do so but provided the finance is there (and to be fair it might not be) how on earth can the IRFU view having Ruan Pienaar in Ireland as a bad thing? If having Pienaar at Ulster means the likes of Jackson, Marshall, Olding, Trimble, Bowe, Payne and Gilroy are playing knockout HEC rugby then I just can't fathom for a millisecond why the IRFU wouldn't want to keep him in Ireland. Also the argument that Munster want to sign a NIQ scrum half makes abosultely no sense at all given they have an Irish test Lion at scrum half.

Do you not think he's holding Jackson back by taking the kicking duties from him and Marshall back by taking his place at 9? I think those are two points that the IRFU would also look at when weighing up the pros and cons.

bilston

dregin wrote: »

Do you not think he's holding Jackson back by taking the kicking duties from him and Marshall back by taking his place at 9? I think those are two points that the IRFU would also look at when weighing up the pros and cons.

Well he's not holding Marshall back from playing for Ireland as Marshall isn't good enough, or at best he could do a job from the bench but with Murray, Marmion and McGrath coming through as well as having Boss and Reddan who still have a bit of rugby left in them I really don't think this should be an issue.

As for holding Jackson back with goal kicking, simple solution, make Jackson take the kicks.

awec

Just make Jackson the kicker and Pienaar can step in if he has an off day.

I don't think Marshall is in the IRFUs plans.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Not all NIQ players are signed to start. Nathan White, Quinn Roux etc. Munster don't have a decent quality back up scrum half. I don't agree with it but this is supposedly how the guidelines work so if they were to sign one, Ulster would be up against it to re-sign Pienaar. Munster had to get AIL player to take a short term contract for this season. I'm sure they'd much rather be able to sign a Currie Cup scrum half to start 15 games a season rather than rely on their other options which they don't appear to particularly rate.

Agree on the concept that the presence of better players allows young players partake at a higher level. Pienaar takes a huge amount of pressure off Jackson and lets him develop steadily. It's a touch of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

I think Ulster will be up against to keep Pienaar, apart from anything he himself may want to go back to SA the year before the WC, however he has hinted that he'd like to stay. I would say that while Munster do need cover for Murray it would not benefit Irish rugby to get rid of Pienaar to enable Munster to sign a back up 9 to Murray.

Of course one solution might be to give Ulster Murray and then let Munster sign their Currie Cup 9;)

The serious solution is to not have black and white rules and where necessary allow two NIQ scrum halves to ply their trade in Ireland, especially if one is just a back up.

Buer

dregin wrote: »

Do you not think he's holding Jackson back by taking the kicking duties from him and Marshall back by taking his place at 9? I think those are two points that the IRFU would also look at when weighing up the pros and cons.

In fairness, Marshall is holding Marshall back. He'll fill in but he has never been good enough to be a good HEC scrum half. He's a good impact sub but I'd hate to have him dictating play from the off in a tight, physical game.

The IRFU might use it in their argument but it wouldn't hold much weight. We all know that, with all players fit, Marshall definitely will not be in the Irish 23 and isn't a kid anymore.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

In fairness, Marshall is holding Marshall back. He'll fill in but he has never been good enough to be a good HEC scrum half. He's a good impact sub but I'd hate to have him dictating play from the off in a tight, physical game.

The IRFU might use it in their argument but it wouldn't hold much weight. We all know that, with all players fit, Marshall definitely will not be in the Irish 23 and isn't a kid anymore.

They'd be better of using the case of Michael Heaney as part of their argument to be honest. Not that I want to help their case!

Actually thinking about it, Marshall or Heaney could go to Munster to solve their back up 9 problem.