Russian lawmaker: Women should get time off from work during menstruation!

pwurple

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Unreal. It's like having a severe bout of food poisoning or something. That time I had to bring my friend to the doctor I remember she had been vomiting violently since about midnight. How the hell does the body's rejection of an unfertilised egg cause vomiting and diarrhoea?!!

Normally the lining of the uterus is all that is expelled. Sometimes that same tissue grows in other places, on the bowel or on muscles around the abdomen. Body tries to expel the whole lot of that other tissue, woman thinks she has irritable bowel syndrome becuase she gets vomitting and diarrhoea so often, is constipated the rest of the time, or gets that the crazy pain, sometimes even spreading to the legs.

Lining tissue (endometrium) growing in other places than the uterus is a condition called endometriosis.

Often runs in families, so mums and daughters and sisters all get the same experience.


Edit:Just wanted to add, if left untreated it can cause infertility, as it can scar fallopian tubes and other areas. If you think yu might have it, mention it to a GP.

Precious flower

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Unreal. It's like having a severe bout of food poisoning or something. That time I had to bring my friend to the doctor I remember she had been vomiting violently since about midnight. How the hell does the body's rejection of an unfertilised egg cause vomiting and diarrhoea?!!

The thing with menstrual cramps are they can vary so much between women I guess. One persons interpretation of bad menstrual cramps may be very different from anothers. Some women don't even get them at all, some women get only the odd discomfort and some get it very bad. When I explained what my menstrual cramps were to a friend, she was very taken back as hers were not nearly as bad and I don't think mine are the worse.
Usually with my periods the first two days require nurofen. Some women just have pains worse than others. I know that if I don't take nurofen in time (before the cramps really settle in) I can felt very faint and sick and there's little to do than accept wait them out with a hot water bottle. I remember one morning I woke up with bad enough pains, tried to eat breakfast and threw up. I think it's mainly that your stomach just feels unsettled. My stomach can feel off all day even with nurofen.

*Oh, pain in the legs, get that one too, that's more uncomfortable than anything, but it's annoying!

I remember in school I nearly fainted twice from the pain and had to go home. The pain can exhaust you, and I've had days were I've definitely had to drag myself out of bed for college. I can understand the poster who was talking about going to work and having to deal with students. If your stomach is at you and you're tired from the night before it's hard to stay energetic and attentive when all you want to do is lie down on the floor!:p
HOWEVER, getting bad on topic I don't think that warrants two free days off, (especially if there are women who would use it who don't have any idea what real menstrual cramps are!:p) but I mean if they're offering it, I wouldn't say no!!:p *Makes mental note to move to Russia*

pwurple

Precious flower wrote: »

(especially if there are women who would use it who don't have any idea what real menstrual cramps are!:p)

'Real' menstrual cramps are nothing like what you are describing.

Did you read my previous post?

meeeeh

I had nothing as bad as described there and there is nothing medically wrong with me. Funny enough the cramps are gone for years now but sometimes I can get a killer hangover after a glass of wine if I have it a day before my period starts. Not every time, just every so often.

seosamh1980

I always have a window of maybe 8 hours (if I don't take painkillers) where I get the leg pain and an ache across my abdomen that would make me weak, need to sit down, unable to think as clearly. Sometimes this happens in the evening, but if it happens during the workday when I need to be dealing with customers and not curled in a ball on the couch I take painkillers to get through it, this doesn't mean I need to see a doctor, any time a doctor has asked about what my cycle is like none of them have ever felt that what I experience warrants any investigation, a few hours of pain - even severe for some people - can be totally normal, same way some people get really bad headaches/migraines and others don't.

I don't have pain anywhere bad enough to need to see a doctor, it's normal for some women to have a few hours to a day or two of pain, and some of us would prefer not to start taking prescription medication that comes with many side effects to avoid a pain that sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't. To be taking and paying for medication for the whole year to avoid 8-12 days of temporary pain doesn't appeal to me.

LegacyUser

pwurple wrote: »

I would suggest those who cannot stand up or form a sentence when they are menstruating see a doctor.

That's not normal.

Ahhhh. This drives me mad! You're wrong!!! Just because you have pain free periods (and I assume you do) (and I have heard this stance before) you think something must be wrong if you have painful periods.

Not everyone has the same periods you do! Women vary! A lot of women have extremely painful periods.

I thank God, seemed to grow out of it, but when I was younger: late teens, early twenties, I would literally be doubled up with pain, usually on the first day. My stomach would hurt, my whole groin would hurt, and I would have shooting pains down the tops of my thighs.

I remember literally being on the ground in a toilet at work with pain before having to go into a meeting, thinking it was so unfair I had to go through this!

Went to the doctor and there was nothing wrong.

They are not painful now I am in my late twenties thank God, but now it has changed to that I have pretty painful breast all the week before it. Still much prefer it to the way it was, that was unreal pain. Sometimes it should be accounted for and given time off for!

Malari

It would be interesting to see a poll here on how badly women suffer from period pains. Ranging from pain free or nothing a nurofen can't cure to I need a day off because I may die before bedtime.

jill_valentine

I've yet to meet anybody who has pain free periods tbh. What she's saying is that if it's painful enough to physically incapacitate you, you should definitely at least consult a doctor. Very sore and uncomfortable, take that for granted grand, but crippled with pain, regularly puking or feeling faint, that's not "normal", you don't have to live with it.

Doctors here can still be oddly coy about recommending the pill, but if your period is actually impacting your quality of life, it's definitely worth considering even for a short term.

Malari

jill_valentine wrote: »

I've yet to meet anybody who has pain free periods tbh. What she's saying is that if it's painful enough to physically incapacitate you, you should definitely at least consult a doctor. Very sore and uncomfortable, take that for granted grand, but crippled with pain, regularly puking or feeling faint, that's not "normal", you don't have to live with it.

Doctors here can still be oddly coy about recommending the pill, but if your period is actually impacting your quality of life, it's definitely worth considering even for a short term.

Nice to meet you! :-)

Seriously, once every 6 months or so I get a twinge. So if I'm at one extreme I guess it's feasible there are a few at the other.

LegacyUser

jill_valentine wrote: »

I've yet to meet anybody who has pain free periods tbh. What she's saying is that if it's painful enough to physically incapacitate you, you should definitely at least consult a doctor. Very sore and uncomfortable, take that for granted grand, but crippled with pain, regularly puking or feeling faint, that's not "normal", you don't have to live with it.

Doctors here can still be oddly coy about recommending the pill, but if your period is actually impacting your quality of life, it's definitely worth considering even for a short term.

But just to clarify, - very painful IS within the normal range of what women experience during their periods. I did go to the doctor and there was nothing wrong. I was just at that end of the spectrum. I teach and I have girls needing to go home early because of their time of the month. They are in pain, and they look very pale and sick.

Some women have very painful periods. Some women don't Painkillers are the job but I definitely would agree that there should be more support for women in taking days off if they need to.

Precious flower

pwurple wrote: »

'Real' menstrual cramps are nothing like what you are describing.

Did you read my previous post?

So, what are 'real' menstrual cramps? Everyone has different and varying degrees of period pains. Just because you feel sick and faint from pain doesn't mean you have an underlying condition. I've mentioned it to my doctor before and he didn't seem concerned. Granted if you were bleeding quite heavily and couldn't get up from the bed due to pain, then you need to go see a doctor. My pains just happen to be worse than other friends and I've friends who have pains and other symptoms similar to mine.

sam34

Malari wrote: »

Nice to meet you! :-)

Seriously, once every 6 months or so I get a twinge. So if I'm at one extreme I guess it's feasible there are a few at the other.

ditto. I have very light and painless periods. hardly notice them, tbh. before I was on hormonal contraception they were heavy but still not painful.

pwurple

Precious flower wrote: »

So, what are 'real' menstrual cramps? Everyone has different and varying degrees of period pains. Just because you feel sick and faint from pain doesn't mean you have an underlying condition. I've mentioned it to my doctor before and he didn't seem concerned. Granted if you were bleeding quite heavily and couldn't get up from the bed due to pain, then you need to go see a doctor. My pains just happen to be worse than other friends and I've friends who have pains and other symptoms similar to mine.

I'm sure you do have friends with a similar experience, it's not rare, despite hardly anyone knowing about it. An estimated 6-10% of the female population have it.

The rough theory is that it's a fairly modern phenomenon for us to go decade after decade of menstruation with no letup or break for pregnancy or breastfeeding. Hence that tissue is more likely to spread outwards in the body.... unproven theory, but there you go.

I would say if you feel sick and faint from pain there is almost certainly something up. Menstrual cramps are the odd twinge, should not be painful. I usually wear pads for a few days before my dates, as I don't notice when it starts.


176 million women and girls world wide have endometriosis
What is endometriosis?
There's a video that explains it here:
player.vimeo.com/video/20910143

"Don't be like me - seek help early if you have endometriosis-like symptoms."
Diana Wallis, Former Vice-president, European Parliament.
You can see an interview with Diana Wallis here: vimeo.com/20829689

"Endometriosis requires treatment - go to your doctor if you have severe menstrual pain."
Hans Evers, Prof of Obstetrics & Gynaecology at Maastricht University and President of the World Endometriosis Society.
You can see an interview with Hans Evers here: vimeo.com/20829596

seosamh1980

pwurple wrote: »

I would say if you feel sick and faint from pain there is almost certainly something up.

There isn't always something up! Just because it's unusual to you doesn't mean there's something wrong with somebody else if it happens them. Yes if somebody is very sick, faint or in a lot of pain for a long time of it, but many women just get bad pain for a few hours etc, on one day of it. Diet, weight, stress, etc can all affect it and change it, and for some women it just hurts, that's it. Some women have very heavy periods for no reason, some have light ones, it doesn't mean every single one of them has a medical condition causing it, it's just the way they are.

miezekatze

2 days off every month is probably a bit much, but I think it would be nice if women got a few extra sick days a year. I only get 4 paid sick days a year where I work, and they are generally all used for bad periods. If I have a cold/flu or anything else, I usually go to work anyway as that's not as bad as a bad period.

pwurple

seosamh1980 wrote: »

There isn't always something up! Just because it's unusual to you doesn't mean there's something wrong with somebody else if it happens them. Yes if somebody is very sick, faint or in a lot of pain for a long time of it, but many women just get bad pain for a few hours etc, on one day of it. Diet, weight, stress, etc can all affect it and change it, and for some women it just hurts, that's it. Some women have very heavy periods for no reason, some have light ones, it doesn't mean every single one of them has a medical condition causing it, it's just the way they are.

I didn't say 'always'. I said 'almost certainly'. I was also responding directly to the girl who is faint, gets sick and gets pains in her legs. That's no way to be going on. Sympathy is all well and good, but when it might be something treatable...

I dunno. We all have different attitudes to health. Some people like a bit of sympathising, holding hands, drinking tea and an ould moan about pains. I prefer to tinker about and fix the problem. It's the engineer in me.


Either way, I'm just putting the information out there. People can take it, or leave it.

sunbeam

I don't have endometriosis. I do have PCOS but that's a discussion for another thread.

My cramps when I had them were severe, but relatively short lived lasting on average 'only' two to three hours. No shooting pains down my legs or back.

A friend of mine had cramps so bad she used to pass out. She spent 20 pain free years on the pill and when she came off her periods returned without any pain at all. She doesn't have endometriosis either. (She is undergoing various tests in preparation for IVF at present and there is no sign of it.)

ash23

Two of my sisters had very bad periods. One when she was younger and she was put on the pill at 13 and had a couple of D&Cs. Another suffered for years and years despite being in and out of the GP and hospital. She had a baby and now she's fine.


There was no cause for either of their problems but there was treatment which helped. And I know that when either of them were very sick they would be able to get a sick cert for work as the GP had a long documented record of their problems and knew they weren't faking it.

So while I do believe some women need time off due to menstrual problems, there's no need for it to be an automatic right. Thankfully I never get pain (although I am a bit moody the day before). In fact I get far more pain during ovulation than menstruation.

Anyway, many women don't menstruate due to contraception, many don't have pain or have very little so there is little to no point automatically giving leave to every woman and it would be sexist to do so. Like, do you have to take in proof of menstruation to prove it?

A GP would most likely give a cert to someone who is suffering very badly with their periods so it shouldn't be automatic.

Precious flower

pwurple wrote: »

I didn't say 'always'. I said 'almost certainly'. I was also responding directly to the girl who is faint, gets sick and gets pains in her legs. That's no way to be going on. Sympathy is all well and good, but when it might be something treatable...

I dunno. We all have different attitudes to health. Some people like a bit of sympathising, holding hands, drinking tea and an ould moan about pains. I prefer to tinker about and fix the problem. It's the engineer in me.


Either way, I'm just putting the information out there. People can take it, or leave it.

You know, to be fair to you, I get what you're saying and I had a look at it and I have to say a lot of the symptoms are something that I get. I'll keep an eye on it, but since only 5-10% of the population are affected by it, I don't think it's that especially since my menstrual cycle is quite regular and not heavy, although the other symptoms are all things I can say happen to me. I'd be fairly reluctant to go to the doctor though since the thought of a physical exam down there is something I would be too scaredy-cat to get done!!:pac:

Tigger99

Ah god precious flower. Believe me I hate physical exams but they are nothing compared to crippling periods. Imagine you found out in 5 years that the pain you went through was avoidable if you'd gone to the Doc earlier?

pwurple

It's detected with an ultrasound (jelly on tummy) or a laproscopy (Which you get knocked out for). There is no feeling you up involved.

Btw, there are loads of other things it could be too... That is just an example of one of the nasties which causes permanent damage if untreated.

Fukuyama

A set up that most tech companies have would solve this.

Employees set their own hours and can take 'duvet days' to work at home. So if an employee is sick they needn't actually call in sick (unless they have a meeting or something). They can work from home and cover their basic tasks like email and so on. I think if I ever set up a company I'd have a flexible work arrangement that bends around the strict 9-5. The extra costs are made up by proven increases in staff motivation, staff retention and the avoidance of issues like needing to drop kids off at 9am for school, pick kids up, dentist appointments, feeling ill in the morning but grand for the afternoon and so on. Plus it makes you company known as a 'cool place to work' in the labour market.


A law like this would do nothing for women in the larger sense however. Imagine an SME owner thinking about hiring a new manager or something. One of them is automatically entitled to a months extra leave each year.

Even the most equality minded person can see when a practical decision must be made.

Also it's open to abuse. I worked in my last job for two years and didn't miss a single day. I often found myself being called in to cover shifts of people who I knew damn well were hungover. :mad: We've all had colleagues like that. A lot of people see paid sick leave (or even unpai) as like Super Dooper Free Extra Special Day Off Tokens.

A law like this would be a dream come true for a lot of people. And as a man I'd be royally pi55ed off if a colleague on the same level/pay grade as me suddenly got this massive benefit and I didn't.

If there is a genuine problem I'm sure a doctor's cert could help along with an understanding HR department.

clairefontaine

That's a great idea.

There are so many people with invisible illnesses who struggle to keep their jobs because their illness is so taxing, like crippling arthritis or Chrons disease, making it so hard to go into work.

This menstruation leave hardly seems fair in light of that.

Your idea would solve a lot of problems.

Ciarabear

Utter nonsense. Women are doing themselves a disservice if they plead equality for all in one breath and seek special treatment in the next

Neyite

I worked with someone years ago who took two days off without fail every single period. We had paid sick leave. So, every time she called in sick, no matter what deadlines I had, I had to cover her work too. Strangely enough, it was always a Monday and a Tuesday too. Like clockwork she was.

Initially I was sympathetic. I, as a teen had heavy periods, regularly fainting and all that. But any sympathy waned quickly when I realised that: she never had, nor felt that she needed to, consult a GP or gynaecologist for her period pains. She didnt "believe" in paracetamol, or any other pain relief for them either. She let slip once that she was somewhere enjoying herself when she was supposed to be in agony at home too.

So in my mind, she was workshy and wanted to wallow in her discomfort 2 days out of every 28 while I did her work for her. Her periods were exactly like mine, except that I took the occasional couple of paracetamol and got on with it.

I have every sympathy for women who suffer, who consult with doctors to see if there is something more at play, who take pain relief, who are willing to try medications to relieve symptoms. But if you claim you are crippled every month, yet wont get it investigated to see if its something more, I'm quite frankly going to call bull**** on it. If you are in that much pain, go see a gynaecologist. If you dont think your pain is important enough to consult a gynaecologist, then why expect that your bosses and colleagues will take it seriously?

Lyaiera

clairefontaine wrote: »

I've made some very bad mistakes under the influence of pain.

However, a feminist stance would argue that your period is not a justifiable reason for discrimination against you.

I remember growing up seeing a tampax ad with a woman in white riding on a horse through a meadow to the soundtrack "I am woman hear me roar."

You've t got to be kidding me. You're expected to be liberated and toughen up, match your male counterparts. Equality means NO you do no get an extra two days off a month.

If someone is in too much pain to work then they shouldn't be expected to work. I don't know what idea of equality you have but if a man is suffering from pain I wouldn't expect him to work. I would expect that society is set up in such a way that we can accommodate the pain people go through even if it's something other people don't go through.

There is a very real, and very simplistic and lazy conception that feminism is all about getting what men have. My feminism (and many other's) is about realising that society is entirely concerned with facilitating an entirely cissexual, heteronormative, privileged male world and addressing that. (I would include race and religion in that but like much of Ireland I'm not familiar enough to speak on any of of those aspects.)

If someone is in pain it's not for me to say, "I don't experience that. Put up with it or drop out from society." It's for society to say, "You're in pain, how can we help?"

ash23

Lyaiera wrote: »

If someone is in too much pain to work then they shouldn't be expected to work. I don't know what idea of equality you have but if a man is suffering from pain I wouldn't expect him to work. I would expect that society is set up in such a way that we can accommodate the pain people go through even if it's something other people don't go through.

There is a very real, and very simplistic and lazy conception that feminism is all about getting what men have. My feminism (and many other's) is about realising that society is entirely concerned with facilitating an entirely cissexual, heteronormative, privileged male world and addressing that. (I would include race and religion in that but like much of Ireland I'm not familiar enough to speak on any of of those aspects.)

If someone is in pain it's not for me to say, "I don't experience that. Put up with it or drop out from society." It's for society to say, "You're in pain, how can we help?"

The issue is that many many people have chronic pain and illness and are not paid. Thousands of people get on with their daily lives while suffering. The only "help" they might get is illness benefit or if they are bad enough, disability benefit (which is quite difficult to be awarded and not very generous in comparison to a wage).
The first 3 days of any illness is not covered under illness benefit so if you take a person who suffers from an ongoing, chronic illness, they would have to miss more than 3 days employment for each episode before they can claim anything.

So why should periods be different?

clairefontaine

Lyaiera wrote: »

If someone is in too much pain to work then they shouldn't be expected to work. I don't know what idea of equality you have but if a man is suffering from pain I wouldn't expect him to work. I would expect that society is set up in such a way that we can accommodate the pain people go through even if it's something other people don't go through.

There is a very real, and very simplistic and lazy conception that feminism is all about getting what men have. My feminism (and many other's) is about realising that society is entirely concerned with facilitating an entirely cissexual, heteronormative, privileged male world and addressing that. (I would include race and religion in that but like much of Ireland I'm not familiar enough to speak on any of of those aspects.)

If someone is in pain it's not for me to say, "I don't experience that. Put up with it or drop out from society." It's for society to say, "You're in pain, how can we help?"

Business is concerned with facilitating healthy, young, productive people. It does not make exemptions for the elderly, for autism, for Chrons disease, etc and it certainly won't for period pains.

Demanding an extra 24 days off a year off the bat for a year is embarrassing given the amount of pain many many people are living in.

Snoopy1

I think this is silly
We moan that we're not getting equal pay, and then we expect to be given 2 days off a month extra.
Imagine ringing your male boss, and explaining it to him and your co-workers.
Some women dont get that much pain and others loads. The people with no pain would just be getting 2 days off to enjoy themselves. You may as well tell the men they can have 2 days off every month to watch football, and see how the women would react then.

Lyaiera

I really don't see why people are putting the business and some men before other people's pain. I don't think anyone here actually said that every woman should get an extra two days off a month.

Businesses have already realised that this type of thing comes up really often, not just with period pain but with any kind of pain, stress, weariness and fatigue, whatever. There are duvet days, and work-from home options. All designed to help someone cope with whatever particular piece of crap they're going through on a given day but that most people feel deserves a sick day.