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what is a good wage these days?
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It doesn’t really make sense to be factoring a volatile exchange rate into your comparison – it’s not like the cost of living in the UK or Ireland jumps up and down in line with the €/£ rate.ShowMeTheCash wrote: »For example 45K sterling is around 53K euro.
My take home is around 33K sterling or 38K euro, but to take 38K home here in Ireland I would actually have to earn 58K euro a year.
It is a double hit, as the exchange rate is .86 if it moved from example to .75 (which it could) my 45K sterling or 33K take home would earn me a 44k euro net, to have the same take home here in ireland I would need to be getting paid 70K a year...0 -
It doesn’t really make sense to be factoring a volatile exchange rate into your comparison – it’s not like the cost of living in the UK or Ireland jumps up and down in line with the €/£ rate.
Well I gave the example of today's exchange rate...
Ireland is joined to the UK I think we need to make a comparison to some degree or show some kind of parody...
Else we just return to a situation whereby the M1 to Belfast/Lisburn is rammed every weekend with half the population pumping their disposable income into the UK economy.
Being from Donegal perhaps it is just something I think about more as it can have a much larger impact being we are a boarder county.0 -
nice_guy80 wrote: »there has been recruitment embargo in the PS for 5 years now
so most of the workers are older = higher salaries.
on another point, you really need to see the MEAN salary, not average. Higher earners skew the average salary upwards
and I never, ever see comparison of the 'take home' pay of a public servant to those in other sectors
Paying a contribution towards your far superior pension and retirement benefits do not equate to a "pay cut".0 -
Paying a contribution towards your far superior pension and retirement benefits do not equate to a "pay cut".
they pay a lot into their pensions - look it up.
those recruited on new contracts in the last ten years have much less favourable conditions
one of the biggest drains on the public purse is those who have retired before 2007/2008 and are taking home pensions that they didn't really pay into during their working career.
no government would ever tackle that because those people have a very strong vote0 -
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DellyBelly wrote: »I actually think it's higher than 56K
I'm delighted for your thoughts. As is usual with the PS bashers, however, your thoughts have little or nothing in common with reality.
Change the record, please, or save this type of comment for the REAL anti PS threads.0 -
. . The management are completely inflexible and do not listen to staff concerns. One day my team leader monitored how long I took for tea break. We are allowed 10 minutes but I apparently took 12 minutes. I was taken aside and reminded that tea break is only 10 minutes. I was dumbfounded she was taking issue with me over 2 minutes. Most days I don't take a tea break because I don't have the time. She also seemed to forget the extra unpaid time I put in after work. It's small things like this that is alienating staff and ensuring most of the staff there will be transient.[/QUOTE]
Im in my 40's and have been through the same. Work isn't an easy life. You will always have people who are trying to better themselves on others backs. Stick with it.In a few years you will be well able to handle them(ie is she doing the same to every other member of staff or picking you out(Bullying), have they communicated to staff about excessive break times etc, is this the only complaint they have about your work. When you say management are inflexible and do not listen to concerns, they are not paid to do that, is it for the benefit of the customer or the staff?
PS: Im in management0 -
What's the point of sticking with a job like that? ****e pay and ****e working conditions and no prospect of advancement. Not even one of the three things that might make a job sticking round for a while, but usually you'd want at least two of these three conditions to be considered a half decent job.0
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Paying a contribution towards your far superior pension and retirement benefits do not equate to a "pay cut".
......and the data to support this can be found where?
On a purely anecdotal basis, I get my pension statements every six months and the projected benefits from my private fund (when I worked for a firm) are still significantly more generous than from the public fund, even though I'm in he PS almost as long as I was working privately. I suspect the difference has more to do with the fact that my private pot is held and managed in the UK.
I remember when I started I asked if I could opt out of the public scheme and have my contributions directed to my private plan and I was told I couldn't.0 -
You were talking about how you'd have to be earning x in Ireland in order for it to be equivalent to y in the UK, should the exchange rate change to z. It's not a meaningful comparison, because it takes time for economies to adjust to fluctuating exchange rates.ShowMeTheCash wrote: »Well I gave the example of today's exchange rate...
I don't really know what you're getting at to be honest? What kind of comparison are you talking about? What do you propose should be changed?ShowMeTheCash wrote: »Ireland is joined to the UK I think we need to make a comparison to some degree or show some kind of parody...
Else we just return to a situation whereby the M1 to Belfast/Lisburn is rammed every weekend with half the population pumping their disposable income into the UK economy.0 -
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Average age in the PS is now 45/46 - it used to be a lot lower.
The retirements should have kept it low, but a lot more have left than have retired.
In my own organisation we're down about 33% in staff numbers since 2008 - that's about 37 staff. Of those 37, only 4 retired the rest left or were forced to leave.
Then they wonder whats happened to the property market when the younger generations can't get the jobs :rolleyes:0 -
My husband makes 65k at age 31. But his job requires so many time oversea travels, and he often get calls from clients at anytime, he has to do many hours OT without getting paid for that. He had to travel for 10 days even just 2 wks after We had our son.
He started with 22k when he was 23 years old. We have 2 small kids. I quit my job after we had kids. We r lucky we lived in Granny' old house and we saved a good bit n had our house built. Got land from parents, borrowed half of the house cost from parents n pay back every month, no interest n no pressure. Even that, we still have to be careful on every spending. I say the amount of money spent on kids r more than us. We used to eat outside quite often, buying good clothes, after having kids, we had to cut down a lot of that. I haven't bought any new clothes for myself over a year now. Only bought a dress for a friend' wedding. We r the first one having kids on both side so we don't get any second hand kids clothes n toys... I think you need at least 100k family income to be comfortable.
My broth in law makes 35k at age 27.
My sister makes 29pounds at age 26, living in London barely saved any money, so expensive the rent...
Most of my husband colleague makes 70k at/around age 33.
Another relative is a doctor he makes 60k as starting his job but he has to work sooooo many hours that forced him to move to Australia.0 -
My husband makes 65k at age 31. But his job requires so many time oversea travels, and he often get calls from clients at anytime, he has to do many hours OT without getting paid for that. He had to travel for 10 days even just 2 wks after We had our son.
He started with 22k when he was 23 years old. We have 2 small kids. I quit my job after we had kids. We r lucky we lived in Granny' old house and we saved a good bit n had our house built. Got land from parents, borrowed half of the house cost from parents n pay back every month, no interest n no pressure. Even that, we still have to be careful on every spending. I say the amount of money spent on kids r more than us. We used to eat outside quite often, buying good clothes, after having kids, we had to cut down a lot of that. I haven't bought any new clothes for myself over a year now. Only bought a dress for a friend' wedding. We r the first one having kids on both side so we don't get any second hand kids clothes n toys... I think you need at least 100k family income to be comfortable.
My broth in law makes 35k at age 27.
My sister makes 29pounds at age 26, living in London barely saved any money, so expensive the rent...
Most of my husband colleague makes 70k at/around age 33.
Another relative is a doctor he makes 60k as starting his job but he has to work sooooo many hours that forced him to move to Australia.
I think what your trying to say is that your husband works hard and you are hard working people but are still finding it a little difficult. If you are living in ireland then yes you probably need more than 65k because of the tax levels, bad income bracket to be in. There are many people worse off, the deep injustice is how much your husband is being ripped off by the Irish government. Phrasing it the way you did won't earn you much sympathy in Ireland: The mentality generally being that if you have more money than the rest you have no right to complain, regardless of how much blood, sweat and sacrifice it took to get there. We heavily dissapprove of those "above their station"(wealthy, or even just above average). The fact that your husband no doubt worked 8 years straight is irrelevant and you were "lucky" to get land from your parents.
Reading through the posts it seems setting up yourself is the only way to go - the only alternatives being working in a corporation where no1 gives damn or working for a government who increase or decrease your salary depending on whether they ruined the economy or accidently created some wealth this quarter.0 -
oneshot2shots wrote: »I think what your trying to say is that your husband works hard and you are hard working people but are still finding it a little difficult. If you are living in ireland then yes you probably need more than 65k because of the tax levels, bad income bracket to be in. There are many people worse off, the deep injustice is how much your husband is being ripped off by the Irish government. Phrasing it the way you did won't earn you much sympathy in Ireland: The mentality generally being that if you have more money than the rest you have no right to complain, regardless of how much blood, sweat and sacrifice it took to get there. We heavily dissapprove of those "above their station"(wealthy, or even just above average). The fact that your husband no doubt worked 8 years straight is irrelevant and you were "lucky" to get land from your parents.
Reading through the posts it seems setting up yourself is the only way to go - the only alternatives being working in a corporation where no1 gives damn or working for a government who increase or decrease your salary depending on whether they ruined the economy or accidently created some wealth this quarter.
One of my pet theories is that a lot of begrudgery in this country is driven by the fact that the obtaining of third level quals in this country involves very little sacrifice.
In other countries, there's very little in the way of grants (except for the truly needy) or if you want a grant or funding you go 'earn' it through academic competition.
I think a system of student loans would be more beneficial - it saves money and brings a rigour to academic and student life that is missing in Ireland. If there was a bit more sacrifice involved in getting a degree it might be held in higher regard - it might also discourage people from picking useless courses.
......and before anyone asks, yes, my BSc was funded through a grant. I have two masters degrees I funded myself though.0 -
My husband makes 65k at age 31. But his job requires so many time oversea travels, and he often get calls from clients at anytime, he has to do many hours OT without getting paid for that. He had to travel for 10 days even just 2 wks after We had our son.
He started with 22k when he was 23 years old. We have 2 small kids. I quit my job after we had kids. We r lucky we lived in Granny' old house and we saved a good bit n had our house built. Got land from parents, borrowed half of the house cost from parents n pay back every month, no interest n no pressure. Even that, we still have to be careful on every spending. I say the amount of money spent on kids r more than us. We used to eat outside quite often, buying good clothes, after having kids, we had to cut down a lot of that. I haven't bought any new clothes for myself over a year now. Only bought a dress for a friend' wedding. We r the first one having kids on both side so we don't get any second hand kids clothes n toys... I think you need at least 100k family income to be comfortable.
My broth in law makes 35k at age 27.
My sister makes 29pounds at age 26, living in London barely saved any money, so expensive the rent...
Most of my husband colleague makes 70k at/around age 33.
Another relative is a doctor he makes 60k as starting his job but he has to work sooooo many hours that forced him to move to Australia.
Some people looking at this would think your are well off. In reality your husband is bringing home 890/week it looks good money but he may have pension deductions as well. For this he is on the beck and call of the company all the time. You have all the costs of working needing a car ( unless he has a company one and he will pay BIK on it).
From now on you will have property Tax and Water rates bringing down your net income by 500 climbing to 800/year over the next 4-5 years.
You are racing to stand still. People will question why you do not get a job but in reality with your husband having to be away on business trips it may not be feasible. Even if you got a job earning 40K ( a good wage for someone returning to the labour market) you would only bring home around 20K and all would go in Child care and work related costs (travelling to work, clothes etc expenses)
In reality if your husband gave up work and you were both unemployed over the long term you would be no worse off. This is the injustice of the Irish system, I get sick at present when I hear Joan Bruton spouting her economic theory.
I have one criticism of the present younger generation maybe not in your case the sise of housing that they are building is huge. We have gone from 1300 sqft houses in rural Ireland to 2.5-3K houses in 20 years. I cannot see the justification of houses bigger than 1800-2000sqft.0 -
Farmer Pudsey wrote: »Some people looking at this would think your are well off. In reality your husband is bringing home 890/week it looks good money but he may have pension deductions as well. For this he is on the beck and call of the company all the time. You have all the costs of working needing a car ( unless he has a company one and he will pay BIK on it).
From now on you will have property Tax and Water rates bringing down your net income by 500 climbing to 800/year over the next 4-5 years.
You are racing to stand still. People will question why you do not get a job but in reality with your husband having to be away on business trips it may not be feasible. Even if you got a job earning 40K ( a good wage for someone returning to the labour market) you would only bring home around 20K and all would go in Child care and work related costs (travelling to work, clothes etc expenses)
In reality if your husband gave up work and you were both unemployed over the long term you would be no worse off. This is the injustice of the Irish system, I get sick at present when I hear Joan Bruton spouting her economic theory.
I have one criticism of the present younger generation maybe not in your case the sise of housing that they are building is huge. We have gone from 1300 sqft houses in rural Ireland to 2.5-3K houses in 20 years. I cannot see the justification of houses bigger than 1800-2000sqft.
His actual wage is 860/wk after paying pension, tax n insurance. We only have 1 second hand car, we need to buy another car coz its painful to arrange trips w 1 car inbetween us.
Food n grocery 600-700 per month, half of the money is for kids, 4pcs seabass a wk cost 80 euro per month, (each kid 2pcs) vitamin supplement cost 20, seasonal fruits cost 100....
Occasionally eat outside 150 per month
Sky 62
3G 35
Diseal 200
Phone 40
Electricity used to be 120, this year price increased to 160 every 2 month
Oil 1500 a year n can only turn on for very little hrs, w the new house we have undfloor heating, heard it cost 800 a year, will see.
Dump nappies cost 8 euro a big bag...
Formula milk 60
Nappy 60
2 morinings daycare 120 a month, mainly for kids social
Magazine n lottory 30
Kids toys 300-500 a year, especially my son loves tractors, costy, girl want a bike....
Kids shoes n clothes, 300, only buy shoes when clarks has on sale
Husband clothes n shoes, 300-500. He needs good clothes for meeting clients, n god knows his clothes n shoes don't last long.
Myself between skincare n cosmetics, haircut give me a budget of 500.
Car insurance, tax, house insurance, tv license, house tax, water cost, rubbish collecting, ab 2000, but going to buy a second car so wl be 2900 ab.
Car maintain 300
Holidays 3000
Xmas presents 300
Birthdays for 2 kids 400,rent a bouncing castle cost 80 euro a day...
Pay back parents 800/m
Friends wedding, nearly every year get 1, between money for new couple n buy a dress for myself n hair cut...at least 600.
Birthday presents for both side parents 200-300
So that brings ab 39k a year. Lucky we have 260/m child benefit. So our net income is 44.4k a year...
Now the cost of nappy n milk will be gone but soon will be invested in school books n uniform n summer camps.....0 -
Now all the cost doesn't include if u r starting a family, u need to spend a lot money to buy cot, stroller, car seat, bedding, bottles......0
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I've worked in a similar position overseas as your husband. Although getting paid substantially less than your husband, perhaps 50k euro per year on a good year (it's a very good wage here though) I came out with about the same as him because of very low income taxes. It looks your husband is paying 30%+ income taxes although he is the sole breadwinner for your family, that seems very unfair to me. He's out there busting his butt to give at least 20% of his pay for other people's social welfare, that's the truth of it.
Looking at the costs in Ireland, the killer after income taxes is transport costs of all types, insurance, car tax, maintenance costs and in particular VAT at 23% on everything. Even electricity is substantially higher than Asia.
My wife also stays at home and looks after the kids, in Ireland women can earn a good wage (very good plus for Ireland..but getting a job in the first place seems very difficult now) but in many foreign countries females generally are paid at a lower rate. Childcare costs would be half of Ireland but women's earnings are also half of Ireland's at least so it balances out.
In general we are able to save a lot more than Ireland because income taxes are much lower and VAT and other costs such as insurance and rates and fuel and medical are all substantially lower (my family is covered under an excellent national medical and dental insurance scheme, about 50-60 euro a month all in, we get subsidised drugs, instant consultations, very low co-charges, free dental checkups). Petrol costs about 75 cents/L. Annual car tax is about 250 euro. Car service is about 50 euro and parts are cheap.
Food costs are similar but fresh food is cheaper here especially fruit due to warmer climate and local production.
Your Sky charge seems very high, cable here with digital service is about 20 euro, you pay per movie watched extra. You spend a lot on your kids birthdays, it seems odd to me when they are so young. You also spend a lot on your parents birthday presents. I spend a lot on treating them for meals though! (different cultural expectations)
Trades people fees in Ireland are very high, probably 2-4X many other countries. Professional fees are also very high, 50 euro to visit a doctor is scandalous. I bring my kids and ourselves to visit the doctor a few times a month, I would have to worry instead in Ireland.
As you noted you didn't include many other costs, including vaccinations, or baby products, or incidental costs such as medical visits.
Ireland is squeezing it's working people year by year, it's crazy that a person working hard in a responsible job and earning good money (65k/year is a good income in most countries) can just about get by. It makes very leery in making a move back to Ireland because it looks like I would need to earn about about 70-80k+ just to save any money. Even if my wife goes out to work we need to cover childcare. But then I have heard that they take more income tax off you the more you earn..so it's really hard to win as a regular working family.
Childcare expenses are a big problem in Ireland but the whole cost structure is messed up.
Due to the different societal set-ups, the benefits vs drawbacks are very different. I am not entitled to any real unemployment benefit if I lose my job, and yet they don't charge me as much income tax so it tends to balance out somewhat. However by charging all these taxes in Ireland it pushes the cost of everything up and weighs benefits more towards people who are unproductive rather than the productive. It punishes the hardworkers and tends to reward people for not working (unless you are of some privileged sector of society). That's not a good or rational strategy.0 -
I've worked in a similar position overseas as your husband. Although getting paid substantially less than your husband, perhaps 50k euro per year on a good year (it's a very good wage here though) I came out with about the same as him because of very low income taxes. It looks your husband is paying 30%+ income taxes although he is the sole breadwinner for your family, that seems very unfair to me. He's out there busting his butt to give at least 20% of his pay for other people's social welfare, that's the truth of it.
Looking at the costs in Ireland, the killer after income taxes is transport costs of all types, insurance, car tax, maintenance costs and in particular VAT at 23% on everything. Even electricity is substantially higher than Asia.
My wife also stays at home and looks after the kids, in Ireland women can earn a good wage (very good plus for Ireland..but getting a job in the first place seems very difficult now) but in many foreign countries females generally are paid at a lower rate. Childcare costs would be half of Ireland but women's earnings are also half of Ireland's at least so it balances out.
In general we are able to save a lot more than Ireland because income taxes are much lower and VAT and other costs such as insurance and rates and fuel and medical are all substantially lower (my family is covered under an excellent national medical and dental insurance scheme, about 50-60 euro a month all in, we get subsidised drugs, instant consultations, very low co-charges, free dental checkups). Petrol costs about 75 cents/L. Annual car tax is about 250 euro. Car service is about 50 euro and parts are cheap.
Food costs are similar but fresh food is cheaper here especially fruit due to warmer climate and local production.
Your Sky charge seems very high, cable here with digital service is about 20 euro, you pay per movie watched extra. You spend a lot on your kids birthdays, it seems odd to me when they are so young. You also spend a lot on your parents birthday presents. I spend a lot on treating them for meals though! (different cultural expectations)
Trades people fees in Ireland are very high, probably 2-4X many other countries. Professional fees are also very high, 50 euro to visit a doctor is scandalous. I bring my kids and ourselves to visit the doctor a few times a month, I would have to worry instead in Ireland.
As you noted you didn't include many other costs, including vaccinations, or baby products, or incidental costs such as medical visits.
Ireland is squeezing it's working people year by year, it's crazy that a person working hard in a responsible job and earning good money (65k/year is a good income in most countries) can just about get by. It makes very leery in making a move back to Ireland because it looks like I would need to earn about about 70-80k+ just to save any money. Even if my wife goes out to work we need to cover childcare. But then I have heard that they take more income tax off you the more you earn..so it's really hard to win as a regular working family.
Childcare expenses are a big problem in Ireland but the whole cost structure is messed up.
Due to the different societal set-ups, the benefits vs drawbacks are very different. I am not entitled to any real unemployment benefit if I lose my job, and yet they don't charge me as much income tax so it tends to balance out somewhat. However by charging all these taxes in Ireland it pushes the cost of everything up and weighs benefits more towards people who are unproductive rather than the productive. It punishes the hardworkers and tends to reward people for not working (unless you are of some privileged sector of society). That's not a good or rational strategy.
U remind me of all the medical expense, I actually just paid 80 euro for my daughter' 2 teeth filling. N every GP visit cost 45 euro, we get 30 euro covered by vhi, we pay 15 so. Kids n us normally have 5 GP vivist due to stomach bug, head cold...also paid 240 for 2 kids chicken pox vaccine.
I had to do the birthday parties coz we r invited by other kids parties. We live in country side, not that many chance to gather kids together.
My parents r not in Ireland,we don't see them that much. I felt I have to buy Sth nice online for their birthdays.
As most our friends gave bt 100-300 euro for our wedding which is 5 years ago, now it's time to pay back. We got married at 26 so very early age. Our friends r all just planning to get engaged or married now.0 -
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Family obligations are similar the world over, in Asia also it's common to make a monetary contribution to people getting married, sometimes it's huge money. With no social welfare in many countries, many people must contribute a lot of their monthly salary to their parents and other family members.
Ireland is expensive more in terms of services, labour, and the taxes as mentioned. You mentioned VHI, the costs keep going up, I've heard many people have simply dropped private insurance. GP visits should only be 20 euro per visit tops, 50 or 45 euro is a scandal, and then you have to pay extra for medicine. Dentists aren't much better either. From the next couple of years taxes will continue to increase in Ireland with water and property tax and they are changing the motor tax to catch more people, they are also putting in more tolls on the roads, basically will be nickled and dimed to death! Quality of life just reduces.
The only thing that is keeping the show on the road in many areas is that the banks haven't called in their mortgage arrears (and they may need another 15 billion Euro capital injection), and that other people can keep up with their mortgage payments due to low ECB interest rate. It's all hanging together by a thread as far as I can see.0 -
Sky 62, I think 40 is for sports channels which is very very important to my husband!0
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Family obligations are similar the world over, in Asia also it's common to make a monetary contribution to people getting married, sometimes it's huge money. With no social welfare in many countries, many people must contribute a lot of their monthly salary to their parents and other family members.
Ireland is expensive more in terms of services, labour, and the taxes as mentioned. You mentioned VHI, the costs keep going up, I've heard many people have simply dropped private insurance. GP visits should only be 20 euro per visit tops, 50 or 45 euro is a scandal, and then you have to pay extra for medicine. Dentists aren't much better either. From the next couple of years taxes will continue to increase in Ireland with water and property tax and they are changing the motor tax to catch more people, they are also putting in more tolls on the roads, basically will be nickled and dimed to death!
The only thing that is keeping the show on the road is that the banks haven't called in their mortgage arrears, and that other people can keep up with their mortgage payments due to low ECB interest rate. It's all hanging together by a thread as far as I can see.
Who said GP visit is only 20? We r actually paying 45 per visit. My in laws GP charge 50 per visit.0 -
I understand, I said it should be 20 euro MAX per visit, not approx 50 like it is now, it's a massive rip-off. We pay about 4 euro per visit and usually get free medicine.0
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Interesting topic, my take is that a good wage can only be determined after looking at the persons qualifications, experience and sector. After that family circumstances have a big bearing. A single man on 50k will be doing very nicely, where a family of four would be struggling badly on that income and probably only treading water. There are a lot of families the length and breadth of the country with what would be considered good incomes living hand to mouth because of a combination if excessive debt, high cost of living and poor household budgeting. A good wage is totally subjective and will depend on circumstances.0
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You were talking about how you'd have to be earning x in Ireland in order for it to be equivalent to y in the UK, should the exchange rate change to z. It's not a meaningful comparison, because it takes time for economies to adjust to fluctuating exchange rates.
I don't really know what you're getting at to be honest? What kind of comparison are you talking about? What do you propose should be changed?
Really just having a rant.
We should never have joined the euro, our economy was too tightly hitched to that of the UK, we over inflated, now we are bumping up tax to catch up... Our economy needs growth... I think this the increased taxation we could see more people leaving but as it stands people might not need to travel to Auz to get a job, a simply jump over the boarder to work could increase ones salay quite condierably.0 -
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ShowMeTheCash wrote: »Really just having a rant.
We should never have joined the euro, our economy was too tightly hitched to that of the UK, we over inflated, now we are bumping up tax to catch up... Our economy needs growth... I think this the increased taxation we could see more people leaving but as it stands people might not need to travel to Auz to get a job, a simply jump over the boarder to work could increase ones salay quite condierably.
Just came to this post. ye have been busy:)
it looks like it doesn't really matter what you earn it s your outgoings.. basically a 70k earner in Dublin is probably the same as a 32 k earner in rural Ireland with low mortgage.. no travel expenses.. ..? is this the jist of it?0
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