what is a good wage these days?

Carlowgirl

Just wondering what is considered a decent average take home wage these days for both males and females. I know during the boom 750 e may have been average. but surely that has come down now. also what makes an irish person middle class these days.? just wondering? I was thinking 500-550 as an average?

bradlente

188.00

RichardAnd

It all depends on what you do so there's no real answer to the question. I get 25k a year which, for what I do, (software development) is fairly normal for the level I'm at.

Sleepy

It depends entirely on your circumstances really. For someone in my industry with 10 years experience, 50k would be a fairly normal salary.

If you're in your early 30's, single and living in a rural area in a house you inherited from your grandparents, you'd be on easy street. If it's the only income for a family of four paying a boom-time mortgage in Dublin (or renting in a decent area of Dublin) it's far from well off.

I think the best way to judge things is to look at your welfare entitlements and add 50%. If you're earning that, you're doing alright imo.

Dampintheattic

€8.65 per hour. You will be entitled to loads of freebies and benefits, which would be denied, if you were earning say, €20 per hour.
Also you pay little tax, PRSI, USC.

This countries tax and SW system, absolutely murders middle income earners.

Better be well below or a long way above the middle income band, and have the same middle income earners carry the can.:o

king size mars bar

cant even get the €8.65 per hour jobs! €188 is the norm for many now (myself included), and i fear the way things are heading that will have to be reduced as we just cant afford it and the people who are in work getting hammered with taxes can give no more to the government to help fund SW etc and i wouldnt expect them too.

Carlowgirl

Thanks interesting suggestions..
I only work part time.. but with a good hourly rate.. but during the year I took temporary work in an office with a take home pay of 300 e per week.. It was just pocket money .. I could simply not live on it.. I was lucky I had savings to dip into ..or I was borrowing off my partner to pay back at the end of the month.. then rent bills etc .. pay back money and back to square one again !!!! I don't know how people can live on that... I did nt even get paid for my break and had a half hour lunch... only up side was I car pooled.. and it wasn't too far away...
I don't think its possible to live on 188 either.. I think id be happy with 500 per week (if I could get work from my degree profession)... id be very content with that.. then again I live in rural area.. have no kids.. no mortgage yet.. !!!

I wonder do people have savings anymore or are most people living week to week... im not being nosy I don't mean to ask how much people have .. just wondering.. many people I know that would have been better of than me in the boom.. have admitted there going week to week.. !!

king size mars bar

i,m afraid its been week to week for me for a long time!

davidholla

It all depends where you live, any dependents etc. I earn 30k in Kilkenny at 25, rent a house(550PM), nice car, can go out drinking on weekends and save money. In Dublin I wouldn't be able to live on it because of the prices of rent.

I left Dublin to move to Kilkenny, best decision of my life!

El Gato

In my sector (IT/Software Engineering) the avg starting salary is circa €28k for a grad entering a grad programme with most of the well known large companies.

Dannyboy83

52% of income earned after €32,800 is lost
Vat rate of 23%,
DIRT rate of 33%
stealth taxes - water, property, motor tax etc.

Essentially so much our income after the SRCOP is taken that it kind of becomes an equaliser of sorts.

Net income from €32.8k is €26,613.20
But a person earning €40k gross gets to keep €30k net
And a person earning €50k gross gets to keep €34.8k net


So for all the extra responsibility and pressure which that €50k job demands, you're not even 8k per year better off than the person earning €32k.

This is why I personally don't see the point in worker harder or taking on more responsibility or pressure once you reach the SRCOP.
There is insignificant financial incentive to work harder past that point.

Carlowgirl

El Gato wrote: »

In my sector (IT/Software Engineering) the avg starting salary is circa €28k for a grad entering a grad programme with most of the well known large companies.

Is that net or gross?

El Gato

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Is that net or gross?

Gross

Carlowgirl

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

52% of income earned after €32,800 is lost
Vat rate of 23%,
DIRT rate of 33%
stealth taxes - water, property, motor tax etc.

Essentially so much our income after the SRCOP is taken that it kind of becomes an equaliser of sorts.

Net income from €32.8k is €26,613.20
But a person earning €40k gross gets to keep €30k net
And a person earning €50k gross gets to keep €34.8k net


So for all the extra responsibility and pressure which that €50k job demands, you're not even 8k per year better off than the person earning €32k.

This is why I personally don't see the point in worker harder or taking on more responsibility or pressure once you reach the SRCOP.
There is insignificant financial incentive to work harder past that point.

Basically if your were on 32,800 you would be better off asking your boss to lower your wage to 31.5K...
Are you saying someone on say 31.5 is better off than someone earning a couple of grand over that!

everdead.ie

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

52% of income earned after €32,800 is lost
Vat rate of 23%,
DIRT rate of 33%
stealth taxes - water, property, motor tax etc.

Essentially so much our income after the SRCOP is taken that it kind of becomes an equaliser of sorts.

Net income from €32.8k is €26,613.20
But a person earning €40k gross gets to keep €30k net
And a person earning €50k gross gets to keep €34.8k net


So for all the extra responsibility and pressure which that €50k job demands, you're not even 8k per year better off than the person earning €32k.

This is why I personally don't see the point in worker harder or taking on more responsibility or pressure once you reach the SRCOP.
There is insignificant financial incentive to work harder past that point.

Yes but it takes a certain amount to get to a wage were you can live comfortably and then anything after that can be spent on luxuries and can make a big difference if you have a family.

youcancallmeal

Great document detailing salaries in Irish industry here

Carlowgirl

davidholla wrote: »

It all depends where you live, any dependents etc. I earn 30k in Kilkenny at 25, rent a house(550PM), nice car, can go out drinking on weekends and save money. In Dublin I wouldn't be able to live on it because of the prices of rent.

I left Dublin to move to Kilkenny, best decision of my life!

thanks for your reply.. yes my friend is living in Dublin earning about 15 e an hour but paying 850 a month for a two bed apartment... she shares with her partner.. her half of the rent is nearly our total amount of rent for a four bed house in a village...
If we buy a house our mortgage will be less than our rent now also..

good for you choosing quality of life over a rat race !!!kk is not too far from Dublin anyway !!!

gaius c

Some figures:
•33% of households have a gross income of less than €30,000;
•56% of households have a gross income of less than €50,000;
•62% of households have a gross income below the mean household income;
•The top 20% of households have a gross income of more than €80,000 per annum;
•14% of household have a gross income above €100,000 per annum; and
•2% of households have gross incomes above €200,000 per annum.

This is what actual real households are earning in this country today. €30k is actually a pretty decent wage elsewhere in the EU but our cost base is so out of whack here that a couple would struggle to get by on it, let alone a family.

Carlowgirl

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Great document detailing salaries in Irish industry here

thanks had a quick look
going by one of my temporary jobs the figures were actually way higher there... on the list... might still be doing it if I was on that wage.. but its a good guideline thanks

Carlowgirl

gaius c wrote: »

Some figures:
•33% of households have a gross income of less than €30,000;
•56% of households have a gross income of less than €50,000;
•62% of households have a gross income below the mean household income;
•The top 20% of households have a gross income of more than €80,000 per annum;
•14% of household have a gross income above €100,000 per annum; and
•2% of households have gross incomes above €200,000 per annum.

This is what actual real households are earning in this country today. €30k is actually a pretty decent wage elsewhere in the EU but our cost base is so out of whack here that a couple would struggle to get by on it, let alone a family.

So 62 % of us are broke basically !!!
Is it ever going to end!

Galwayguy35

king size mars bar wrote: »

cant even get the €8.65 per hour jobs! €188 is the norm for many now (myself included), and i fear the way things are heading that will have to be reduced as we just cant afford it and the people who are in work getting hammered with taxes can give no more to the government to help fund SW etc and i wouldnt expect them too.

Care to elaborate what these "freebies" are?

Just interested to know because I'm on a tenner an hour and am entitled to nothing.

Edit

Sorry quoted you in error, post was for Damintheatic.

Geuze

CSO earnings data:

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

Average hourly earnings are 22.31.

Average weekly earnings are 697.

See this:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2013/earnlabcosts_q12013.pdf

El Gato

Geuze wrote: »

CSO earnings data:

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/

Average hourly earnings are 22.31.

Average weekly earnings are 697.

See this:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2013/earnlabcosts_q12013.pdf

I really love when the CSO comes out with these figures.

Independent studies show that over 60% of the population are below the 'national average'

If you take the average hourly earnings, the average annual salary is €46,404.80 (based on a 40 hour week) but if you take the average weekly rate, the figure is €36,244. (which would make the average hourly rate 17.43)

Just goes to show number may be manipulated to suit.

Would be interesting to see, in reality, how many PAYE earners are getting almost €700 per week

Sleepy

I don't see how average annual salary can be calculated from average hour earnings without the total number of hours worked (or those reported to have been worked at least)?

davidholla

Top 20% of the country who earn a lot of money will bring those figures way up

El Gato

Sleepy wrote: »

I don't see how average annual salary can be calculated from average hour earnings without the total number of hours worked (or those reported to have been worked at least)?

I simply averaged it at a 40 hour week

OMD

El Gato wrote: »

I really love when the CSO comes out with these figures.

Independent studies show that over 60% of the population are below the 'national average'

k

Hard to call the Nevin institute independent.

Rember in an ideal world 50% of people would be below average. . Bit like saying 50% of people are below average intelligence. Of course they are but it can take a second or two to accept that.

In the same way saying 60% of the population are below national average sounds high but isn't really. Especially as this figure includes the unemployed.

gaius c

Carlowgirl wrote: »

So 62 % of us are broke basically !!!
Is it ever going to end!

Just goes to show just how few people earn the 70-80k that most of my peers (engineers) seem to consider their measure of acceptable household wage.

El Gato

OMD wrote: »

Hard to call the Nevin institute independent.

Rember in an ideal world 50% of people would be below average. . Bit like saying 50% of people are below average intelligence. Of course they are but it can take a second or two to accept that.

In the same way saying 60% of the population are below national average sounds high but isn't really. Especially as this figure includes the unemployed.

Wasn't referring to the Nevin institute tbh.

In relation to the figures, I'm pretty sure the unemployed are not included in the salary/wage figures as they don't actually have either but income on the other hand is a different thing and earned income is different again.

By including unemployed in these figures it should skew the figures negatively as €188 income per week is one third the national average (according to the €697 figure)

OMD

El Gato wrote: »

Wasn't referring to the Nevin institute tbh.

In relation to the figures, I'm pretty sure the unemployed are not included in the salary/wage figures as they don't actually have either but income on the other hand is a different thing and earned income is different again.

By including unemployed in these figures it should skew the figures negatively as €188 income per week is one third the national average (according to the €697 figure)

What figures were you talking about then? The earlier figures that said 62% had incomes below the national average was from Nevin Institute. Those figures included unemployed.

Had you different figures?

goose2005

davidholla wrote: »

Top 20% of the country who earn a lot of money will bring those figures way up

Also you can't look solely at income as a measure of wealth - it ignores assets (which are criminally undertaxed compared to income)

WIZE

Im on 36k which gives me 2400 every month after tax. am better off asking for a decrease to 31K?

davidholla

WIZE wrote: »

Im on 36k which gives me 2400 every month after tax. am better off asking for a decrease to 31K?

Why? extra 200 a month although nearly 3600 gone to pay berties pension

The Corinthian

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Just wondering what is considered a decent average take home wage these days for both males and females. I know during the boom 750 e may have been average. but surely that has come down now. also what makes an irish person middle class these days.? just wondering? I was thinking 500-550 as an average?

Pointless question; how can you compare a graduate in IT, with a plumber with 15 years experience, with a senior partner in a solicitor's firm, for a start? Then of course is €25k p.a. good for a single person living in Ballygospittlebackwards and the same €25k p.a. for a married person, with a family to support, in Dublin?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

52% of income earned after €32,800 is lost
Vat rate of 23%,
DIRT rate of 33%
stealth taxes - water, property, motor tax etc.

Essentially so much our income after the SRCOP is taken that it kind of becomes an equaliser of sorts.

Net income from €32.8k is €26,613.20
But a person earning €40k gross gets to keep €30k net
And a person earning €50k gross gets to keep €34.8k net


So for all the extra responsibility and pressure which that €50k job demands, you're not even 8k per year better off than the person earning €32k.

This is why I personally don't see the point in worker harder or taking on more responsibility or pressure once you reach the SRCOP.
There is insignificant financial incentive to work harder past that point.

Utterly depressing.

I figured out, a long time ago, that Ireland is a good country to be young in; that is, it's a good place to start your career as it has, at least it had, good opportunities for graduates, where in many other countries graduate jobs were thin on the ground.

However, once you reach a certain level, say middle management, there's precious incentive to remain; opportunities are fewer and you get crucified on tax the moment you're above subsistence level.

So it's hardly surprising that once you reach 35, quite a few of us leave. I did so and am certainly not the only one who did.

On top of this Ireland isn't cheap by international standards - correction Dublin isn't, but let's be honest, lose your job in Ballygospittlebackwards and what are the chances you'll get another job in your area locally? How many end up either having to move or commute five hours a day?

And of course, there's the commute and there Ireland is an international disgrace; not only do we have a disastrous public transport system - slow, infrequent, disorganized with little or no integrated ticketing - but, for example, transport (not just public transport, but including your own car) is cheaper in Geneva than in Dublin. I won't tell you what income tax or salaries are there as you'll just cry.

It's a no-brainer; once you consider salaries, cost of living and tax, Ireland is not very attractive once you're at a certain level of earning.

I doubt I'll be coming back in a hurry, TBH. Maybe for holidays mind you.

Sleepy

El Gato wrote: »

I simply averaged it at a 40 hour week

Which means you got an erroneous result

Cody Pomeray

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

52% of income earned after €32,800 is lost
Vat rate of 23%,
DIRT rate of 33%
stealth taxes - water, property, motor tax etc.

Essentially so much our income after the SRCOP is taken that it kind of becomes an equaliser of sorts.

Net income from €32.8k is €26,613.20
But a person earning €40k gross gets to keep €30k net
And a person earning €50k gross gets to keep €34.8k net


So for all the extra responsibility and pressure which that €50k job demands, you're not even 8k per year better off than the person earning €32k.

This is why I personally don't see the point in worker harder or taking on more responsibility or pressure once you reach the SRCOP.
There is insignificant financial incentive to work harder past that point.

This presumes that the person earning €32k and the (same) person earning €50k down the line are in similar circumstances.

If you're married and have kids, and make a small pension contribution, as many €50k earners are, and do, then you're taxed considerably more favourably. You should be paying about €5k less in tax, therefore earning closer to, or even above €40k.

I have limited sympathy for a €50k single person "getting by" on €35k. I think we can go much further.

djpbarry

Carlowgirl wrote: »

I only work part time.. but with a good hourly rate.. but during the year I took temporary work in an office with a take home pay of 300 e per week.. It was just pocket money .. I could simply not live on it..

Carlowgirl wrote: »

thanks for your reply.. yes my friend is living in Dublin earning about 15 e an hour but paying 850 a month for a two bed apartment... she shares with her partner.. her half of the rent is nearly our total amount of rent for a four bed house in a village...

So your share of the rent is, what, €50 per week? Which leaves you with about €250 out of your pay. Bills notwithstanding, how can someone with no dependents not get by on €250 per week?

djpbarry

El Gato wrote: »

If you take the average hourly earnings, the average annual salary is €46,404.80 (based on a 40 hour week)...

Well, no, because the calculation of the average hourly rate would included people who work considerably less than 40 hours per week.

gaius c

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

This presumes that the person earning €32k and the (same) person earning €50k down the line are in similar circumstances.

If you're married and have kids, and make a small pension contribution, as many €50k earners are, and do, then you're taxed considerably more favourably. You should be paying about €5k less in tax, therefore earning closer to, or even above €40k.

I have limited sympathy for a €50k single person "getting by" on €35k. I think we can go much further.

You mean increase tax on them even more?
How about getting the lower tax band to pay their fair share of tax? A household with a married couple only pay 20% up to €41,800. That's not a fair reflection on the use of public services.

In other news:

Government Finance Statistics Quarterly Results
Government revenue: up €973 million
Government expenditure: up €1,299 million
The deficit is up 2.5%

Since the government can't seem to control spending, they have no option but to increase taxation and right now, it's families in the middle who are most squeezed.

djpbarry

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I have limited sympathy for a €50k single person "getting by" on €35k. I think we can go much further.

Yeah, let's keep going until someone on €50k takes home the same amount as someone on €32k.

El Gato

djpbarry wrote: »

Well, no, because the calculation of the average hourly rate would included people who work considerably less than 40 hours per week.

That's why I based my calculation on a 40 hour week (I was supposing all being equal that full time employed people work a 40 hour week....there will of course be people who work 60 or 80 hour weeks and those who work a 20 hour week) then you are getting into full time/part time statistics

Cody Pomeray

djpbarry wrote: »

Yeah, let's keep going until someone on €50k takes home the same amount as someone on €32k.

if they're in different family circumstances, absolutely.

Or lets go even further.

djpbarry

El Gato wrote: »

That's why I based my calculation on a 40 hour week (I was supposing all being equal that full time employed people work a 40 hour week....there will of course be people who work 60 or 80 hour weeks and those who work a 20 hour week) then you are getting into full time/part time statistics

The average working week is stated in the report as being 31.2 hours. €22.21 times 31.2 gives €696 per week, or about €36k per year.

djpbarry

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

if they're in different family circumstances, absolutely.

Family circumstances should have absolutely no bearing on how much tax an individual pays.

The Corinthian

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

if they're in different family circumstances, absolutely.

So why should anyone bother to study (without pay) for years or work hard when employed or even seek promotion or additional responsibility when there is no reward?

Before you say something about self-fulfilment, let me remind you that Star Trek is fictional.

El Gato

djpbarry wrote: »

The average working week is stated in the report as being 31.2 hours. €22.21 times 31.2 gives €696 per week, or about €36k per year.

I see the figures, I simply don't see how they can be correct IMO.

Cody Pomeray

djpbarry wrote: »

Family circumstances should have absolutely no bearing on how much tax an individual pays.

Ok I disagree. I think working parents do important work and their social contribution should be reflected in their tax take. I say that as a non-parent, and indeed non-prospective parent.

The Corinthian wrote: »

So why should anyone bother to study (without pay) for years or work hard when employed or even seek promotion or additional responsibility when there is no reward?

Before you say something about self-fulfilment, let me remind you that Star Trek is functional.

I am not suggesting family circumstances kick in when you reach the marginal rate of tax. The person on €30k with 2 kids and a wife (or husband, or civil partner) ought still be on more than the €30k earner with no dependents, as is the case currently.

djpbarry

El Gato wrote: »

I see the figures, I simply don't see how they can be correct IMO.

I’ve just demonstrated that they’re correct? What’s the problem?

djpbarry

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Ok I disagree. I think working parents do important work and their social contribution should be reflected in their tax take.

Well, I have to disagree. The state should not be effectively paying people to have kids.

If you can’t afford kids, don’t have them.

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The person on €30k with 2 kids and a wife (or husband, or civil partner) ought still be on more than the €30k earner with no dependents, as is the case currently.

Which is utterly, utterly wrong. It’s blatant discrimination against single, childless people.

The Corinthian

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I am not suggesting family circumstances kick in when you reach the marginal rate of tax. The person on €30k with 2 kids and a wife (or husband, or civil partner) ought still be on more than the €30k earner with no dependents, as is the case currently.

Actually, you suggested penalizing people on the basis that they earned 'too much' and because they hadn't children.

By that logic, we should simply give up on higher education or careers and just screw like bunnies.

Or would you care to qualify what you said?

gaius c

Also, there's a difference between kids who live at home and those who don't. Or kids who bring in income of their own while living in the same household.

Total can of worms.