what is a good wage these days?

Morrisseeee

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Reading this thread has depressed me a little. I make 18,500 euro working 35 hours a week for a multinational insurance company. After deductions I'm left with 1,381 euro a month. Out of that I pay 285 euro in rent plus bills. I'm fortunate I do not have any debt and I do not run a car. I get by month to month, I can't really save a whole lot on my earnings. I note the Morgan McKinley salary survey states the low end of the pay scale for my job is 25,000 euro. I'd love to be making in the region of 25,000 plus.

But.............if you were offered a different job in the morning, say €36k gross, you'd probably go and buy a car, settle down with a partner, maybe get married, have kids, get a mortgage, and then.............you're back to square one, like before, ie. struggling to support your lifestyle.

Alot of people are in your scenario or the scenario above and are finding themselves being squeezed out of existence.

fly_agaric

Morrisseeee wrote: »

But.............if you were offered a different job in the morning, say €36k gross, you'd probably go and buy a car, settle down with a partner, maybe get married, have kids, get a mortgage, and then.............you're back to square one, like before, ie. struggling to support your lifestyle.

Alot of people are in your scenario or the scenario above and are finding themselves being squeezed out of existence.

lol so they'd be in exactly the same situation except he/she would now have the means for a car, a house and some kids!!
That argument about how extra earnings are somehow not much benefit because they are swallowed up by a "lifestyle" is funny.
The main benefit of extra earnings is surely the ability to support a better lifestyle with more options (as opposed to having the extra cash mouldering in a bank or under a mattress!).

The Corinthian

Morrisseeee wrote: »

But.............if you were offered a different job in the morning, say €36k gross, you'd probably go and buy a car, settle down with a partner, maybe get married, have kids, get a mortgage, and then.............you're back to square one, like before, ie. struggling to support your lifestyle.

Certain costs do increase as you grow older, however the 'costs expand to meet new income' syndrome in general tends to be something you find in people who've never learned how to be fiscally responsible - typically because they've never had dry patches or never really had to support themselves as they always had someone they could turn to to bail them out.

I knew a chap who was project managing (contract) with a major bank. Two kids, five-bed house, stay-at-home-yummy-mummy (you know the type; talks about re-entering the workplace and actually use that psychology degree she took, but never will), nanny for the kids, cleaner, skiing three times per year and so on.

His contract wasn't renewed and he had to take the first job he could ASAP, because he's saved bugger all and unemployment insurance wasn't going to even cover the rent of the house. Daft way to live.

Tazz T

Morrisseeee wrote: »

But.............if you were offered a different job in the morning, say €36k gross, you'd probably go and buy a car, settle down with a partner, maybe get married, have kids, get a mortgage, and then.............you're back to square one, like before, ie. struggling to support your lifestyle.

Alot of people are in your scenario or the scenario above and are finding themselves being squeezed out of existence.

This is called 'growth'. The more people do this, the better it is for the economy. The car, the partner, the kids, the house... all support businesses and jobs. Which in turn leads to other people getting the 36k and doing the same. Stay on the low income and fewer people get jobs and fewer people move up the ladder so to speak.

JohnMearsheimer

Morrisseeee wrote: »

But.............if you were offered a different job in the morning, say €36k gross, you'd probably go and buy a car, settle down with a partner, maybe get married, have kids, get a mortgage, and then.............you're back to square one, like before, ie. struggling to support your lifestyle.

Alot of people are in your scenario or the scenario above and are finding themselves being squeezed out of existence.

I'd still jump on a 36k per year position. The combined income of myself and my girlfriend would be 70k gross in that scenario. As long as we didn't do anything stupid I'm sure we could get married, get a mortgage etc...

My current salary doesn't really afford me much of a lifestyle. I don't do much more than exist off it. Other people I work with have loans and cars etc. I have no idea how they survive on our salary. Even being on 22/23k instead of 18.5 k a year would be a vast improvement for me as I'd have a bit of breathing room. I got paid more for my first job out of college, I feel I'm going backwards if anything.

Gumbo

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Reading this thread has depressed me a little. I make 18,500 euro working 35 hours a week for a multinational insurance company. After deductions I'm left with 1,381 euro a month. Out of that I pay 285 euro in rent plus bills. I'm fortunate I do not have any debt and I do not run a car. I get by month to month, I can't really save a whole lot on my earnings. I note the Morgan McKinley salary survey states the low end of the pay scale for my job is 25,000 euro. I'd love to be making in the region of 25,000 plus.

€10 per hours does seem quite low for an office job, my mam gets 25% more than that in retail.

Where are you based?

Geuze

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Reading this thread has depressed me a little. I make 18,500 euro working 35 hours a week for a multinational insurance company.

Min wage 8.65 * 39hrs * 52 wks = 17,542 pa.

So 18.5k is what I would call a low wage, even a very low wage.

In 1998 I was earning 9300 IRL as an entry-level underwriting assistant at a national insurer. That's 11,800 in euro in 1998, that's 15 years ago.

I personally can't believe that a MNC insurer is paying so little.

(I don't mean that I don't believe you - I mean that I presumed maybe 24k would be a typical starting wage)

JohnMearsheimer

kceire wrote: »

€10 per hours does seem quite low for an office job, my mam gets 25% more than that in retail.

Where are you based?

I'm based in Galway, in the city. I'm not sure if I can name the company I work for on here but they sponsor a stadium in Dublin that used to be called Lansdowne Road.

JohnMearsheimer

Geuze wrote: »

Min wage 8.65 * 39hrs * 52 wks = 17,542 pa.

So 18.5k is what I would call a low wage, even a very low wage.

In 1998 I was earning 9300 IRL as an entry-level underwriting assistant at a national insurer. That's 11,800 in euro in 1998, that's 15 years ago.

I personally can't believe that a MNC insurer is paying so little.

(I don't mean that I don't believe you - I mean that I presumed maybe 24k would be a typical starting wage)

I wouldn't believe it either if I didn't work there. When the job was advertised there was no mention of the salary. When I applied for the job I assumed it would be about 24/25k per year (the Morgan McKinley report would seem to support this). I'm not servicing any debts so I would have been more than happy with that kind of salary. My jaw nearly hit the floor when they told me the pay would only be 18.5k per year when I was offered the job. The vast majority of people I work with are graduates. We have a solicitor and a few teachers in our ranks all on 18.5k.

Brussels Sprout

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I'm not sure if I can name the company I work for on here but they sponsor a stadium in Dublin that used to be called Lansdowne Road.

That reminds me of a comedian who was doing a joke about the worst job he ever had. He said "It's a major high-street bank. I can't say which one but it rhymes with "Twat-fest"

gaius c

Geuze wrote: »

I am surprised that average annual earnings in FIRE Finance, Insurance and Real Estate has risen by 4.2% between 2009 and 2012, to reach 51,389.

That's an average earning of nearly 1,000 pw in these sectors.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2012/earnlabcosts2012.pdf

Last in first out for redundancies so the people cut are lower waged and the average wage actually increases.

gaius c

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Finally, if you can reach 50k, there is feck all stopping you from reaching 75k down the line once sufficiently motivated.

Hey Bill. How have you been holding up since you lost the Renault franchise?

gaius c

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Reading this thread has depressed me a little. I make 18,500 euro working 35 hours a week for a multinational insurance company. After deductions I'm left with 1,381 euro a month. Out of that I pay 285 euro in rent plus bills. I'm fortunate I do not have any debt and I do not run a car. I get by month to month, I can't really save a whole lot on my earnings. I note the Morgan McKinley salary survey states the low end of the pay scale for my job is 25,000 euro. I'd love to be making in the region of 25,000 plus.

Sorry to hear that you're in such a situation but if it's any consolation, the Morgan McKinley report is a piece of fantasy. I'm an engineer and part of my job is looking at quotes & seeing peoples' rates. MMcK report seems to be based on the rates charged to the client, not what the actual workers get. The only engineers from my peer group getting the kind of money the MMcK reports seems to suggest we should be getting are self-employed and running all the risks that entails.

DarkDusk

Carlowgirl wrote: »

Just wondering what is considered a decent average take home wage these days for both males and females. I know during the boom 750 e may have been average. but surely that has come down now. also what makes an irish person middle class these days.? just wondering? I was thinking 500-550 as an average?

A good wage?

On jobs?

What jobs?

:P

Randomfriend

Go away with your money!!

I'm a recent graduate from art college (haha you say), working part time (2/3 days per week) to pay for my Masters, I get €10.80 per hour. Given I have no qualification in that field.. I assume that's a pretty decent wage (working reception in a hotel which includes doing end of day paperwork and reports etc.) or is it ****e?

I'm just living day by day, have been for years now and don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, I'm just glad I've been able to avoid taking out any loans, yet..

maninasia

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I'd still jump on a 36k per year position. The combined income of myself and my girlfriend would be 70k gross in that scenario. As long as we didn't do anything stupid I'm sure we could get married, get a mortgage etc...

My current salary doesn't really afford me much of a lifestyle. I don't do much more than exist off it. Other people I work with have loans and cars etc. I have no idea how they survive on our salary. Even being on 22/23k instead of 18.5 k a year would be a vast improvement for me as I'd have a bit of breathing room. I got paid more for my first job out of college, I feel I'm going backwards if anything.

If this job doesn't offer some fairly rapid career advancement you should look for another soon or think seriously about emigrating.

The Corinthian

maninasia wrote: »

If this job doesn't offer some fairly rapid career advancement you should look for another soon or think seriously about emigrating.

In my experience (I've never held such a position, but known plenty who do), there's very little scope for advancement; perhaps to leading a team or department of people doing such a job, but naturally there are few openings for that, regardless of what HR will tell you.

Such white collar slavery is generally staffed by:

• People when the job market is very bad and can't get anything else.
• Graduates who simply need any experience at just being employed in any office job.
• Long term unemployed who need to get back on a career path and prove they can hold down a job.
• People with personal issues that have difficulty holding down a job.
• People with little interest in a career and are just looking to pay the bills long enough for someone with an actual career to marry them.
• A combination of the above.

As such, going up the ladder realistically involves doing part-time courses and/or just finding a better job, often unrelated to the low-paid one that is currently paying the bills.

Corporations can afford to staff them in countries like Ireland because we churn out more well-educated people than we have jobs for, which means that there will always be a supply of cheap white collar staff who can be exploited for a while, before moving on to better things.

Geuze

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I'm based in Galway, in the city. I'm not sure if I can name the company I work for on here but they sponsor a stadium in Dublin that used to be called Lansdowne Road.

The next time I hear IBEC or some MNC complaining about high labour costs in Ireland, I will think of this 18.5k gross wage that one of their members pay.

Cody Pomeray

drkpower wrote: »

You were proposing this system earlier so I thought you might be able to provide some kind of argument or rationale for the system.

From my personal point of view, I think I've provided it.

Capitalist economic activity cannot reward all activities which are executed in the common good, and in fact may even punish their execution (e.g. childcare costs, charity donation, taking a year out of work to improve one's education, raising a family, or starting a business).

I am making a fairly unremarkable suggestion that society simply mould its economic model to balance the needs of the market economy with the wider social values which cannot be provided for in the market place, yet which may reap economic dividends in their own right.

With all due respect, I'm not typically anticipating an agreement from you, that's fine by me.

drkpower

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

From my personal point of view, I think I've provided it.

Capitalist economic activity cannot reward all activities which are executed in the common good, and in fact may even punish their execution (e.g. childcare costs, charity donation, taking a year out of work to improve one's education, raising a family, or starting a business).

I am making a fairly unremarkable suggestion that society simply mould its economic model to balance the needs of the market economy with the wider social values which cannot be provided for in the market place, yet which may reap economic dividends in their own right.

With all due respect, I'm not typically anticipating an agreement from you, that's fine by me.

I cant disagreee with what you have said above; but thats probably because its all a bit 'motherhood and apple pie' without any real specifics.

In any case, I haven't actually disagreed with you at any stage! when you stated that certain occupations should benefit from favourable tax treatment - and you gave one example of nursing - I simply looked for some elaboration on why certain occupations would reap this benefit, and others wouldn't (beyond what you have vaguely characterised as 'constructivism' and social 'inputs').

You haven't given me anything to agree or disagree with!

The Corinthian

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I am making a fairly unremarkable suggestion that society simply mould its economic model to balance the needs of the market economy with the wider social values which cannot be provided for in the market place, yet which may reap economic dividends in their own right.

No. You're making a pretty remarkable suggestion; redistribution of earnings to the extreme point (as per your earlier posts) that it eliminates all financial incentive for people to pursue occupations that require differed reward and/or greater effort. It's a concept that was tried and ultimately failed in Comecon nations and was the single biggest reason why a wall existed during the Cold War in the first place - to stop people migrating for better opportunities. Such policies still persist in socialist countries like Cuba.

This has been repeatedly been pointed out to you, but you appear to be in denial about it as you're repeatedly ignoring this point.

jamnik

My husband and I are thinking on re-locating to Ireland. We have a lot to learn about pay scales and cost of living, where to live and so forth. Thought's? BTW, I myself born in Belfast, I moved here to the US with my parents in 1967.

ShowMeTheCash

Just going to add to this thread:

Just on the comment Cody has made to which I agree on.
I think there is an ethical debate around the type of work you do and perhaps your circumstances in terms of taxation...

We live is a social framework, taxation essentially is to fund basic needs of the state, schools, hospitals, defence etc.. etc..

I think if your job or circumstance has a close relationship to adding something back to society then I would agree that a tax break be a reward and I would not begrudge an individual for getting it. (As a lot of these people are fairly low already on the payscale)

Just to get back on point of what is a good wage:
As already stated it can be difficult to answer this, however as of late I have completely lost faith in this country more so with our joke of a government which I find embarrasing!

But just some numbers to think about:

2010 I was earning 40K a year in dublin.
I moved back to Donegal after taking a Role in N Ireland.

I now earn 45K Sterling a year.
Todays exchange rate that is (.86) around 52K euro.

Difference in taxation:

45k sterling would come in at 33K a year after decutions that is around 38K euro, I would need to earn 58K euro to get that in Dublin.

The exchange rate at the moment is not great going back to Feb of this year it was .75 which meant my 33K would have brought me in a take home of 44K euro, however for me to actually have a take home of 44K euro I would need to earn 70K in Dublin

I find this a little crazy!

I am a Senior Software Engineer 10 years experience and 33 yo.

Left Back on the Bench

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Reading this thread has depressed me a little. I make 18,500 euro working 35 hours a week for a multinational insurance company. After deductions I'm left with 1,381 euro a month. Out of that I pay 285 euro in reent plus bills. I'm fortunate I do not have any debt and I do not run a car. I get by month to month, I can't really save a whole lot on my earnings. I note the Morgan McKinley salary survey states the low end of the pay scale for my job is 25,000 euro. I'd love to be making in the region of 25,000 plus.

its depressing me alot!i work for a transport company,im here 9 years,i earn €477 a week before tax,€407 into my hand.there is abit of overtime but not a whole pile.I've no real qualifications unfortunately,needed money so i got a job.drive a 10 ton forklift.

djpbarry

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I find this a little crazy!

You find what a little crazy? I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make?

ShowMeTheCash

djpbarry wrote: »

You find what a little crazy? I’m not entirely sure what point you’re trying to make?

To show how badly things are screwed up...

Our entire country is over inflated, but we are stuck in a circumstance whereby nobody wants to budge therefore the only way to work around it is to up tax rates!...

In the UK the average wage of a public sector worker is around 33k euro and I think it mentioned 56K average here.

I think we will see a higher or increased level of taxation in Ireland until we realistically decrease our expetations to match the reality of the current situation in Ireland. In otherwords we cannot afford to pay the salaries perviously outlined.

Also the euro in itself I think has done us no favours!

barneystinson

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

In the UK the average wage of a public sector worker is around 33k euro and I think it mentioned 56K average here.

Sources for these figures? Are they a like for like comparison? Hard to see how they could be, since the composition of the UK public sector is certain to be different from ours...

Surely it would be a more valid exercise to compare the average net pay, since that's what people actually receive, and the relative cost of living (e.g. cost of a standard trolley of household groceries, utilities, rent etc...).

Carlowgirl

Left Back on the Bench wrote: »

its depressing me alot!i work for a transport company,im here 9 years,i earn €477 a week before tax,€407 into my hand.there is abit of overtime but not a whole pile.I've no real qualifications unfortunately,needed money so i got a job.drive a 10 ton forklift.

I was in a similar job as johnm? the original poster.. I feel bad for you.. how old are you .. would you return to college... ? I t is better than being on the dole tho on a brighter note.. and obviously working gives a better quality of life than sitting at home?

craic34

interesting details provided. salaries i am afraid are going down but rents, taxes... going increasingly up :-(

Carlowgirl

Carlowgirl wrote: »

I was in a similar job as johnm? the original poster.. I feel bad for you.. how old are you .. would you return to college... ? I t is better than being on the dole tho on a brighter note.. and obviously working gives a better quality of life than sitting at home?

Sorry that was for johnmeasheimer? but your own wage is nt too bad comparing to some other scales... I suppose it depends on where you live and what your outgoing s are... I wouldn't turn my nose up at anything over 400e these days myself personally anyway..