General FPL Chat Season 2013/14

Fowler87

I've already played my ft (Collins in for Ivanovic) but am tempted to bring in Leroy Fer for a point hit. Think he might have a big scoring gw on his home debut. Will be playing free role too. Norwich' fixtures aren't great though

Mr.Prodston

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

I'd like very much for this to be true! Did a quick rummage around for the last Moyes game of any importance and came up with the Liverpool - Everton FA Cup semi from the season before last. The match prior to that in the league (linked in the report below) showed some of the big guns like Baines were rested. Moyes appears to have form when it comes to this. Pretty clear you all should sell RvP before it's too late

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17581613

Here's a choice extract "Toffees boss David Moyes clearly had one eye on his side's date with Liverpool at Wembley on Saturday, making five changes and leaving Leighton Baines, Tim Cahill and Nikica Jelavic out of his squad entirely."

I'm going to with joking here :pac: I'm pretty sure Everton had important games last season. I'm also pretty sure an FA cup semi-final against city rivals is a totally different kettle of fish to a 3rd round league cup game or CL group stage game for Man Utd. Especially as Everton were in no man's land as the league table in the article points out.

Another point in the article states:

The last time Moyes rested players ahead of a cup tie, it was for a Merseyside derby before his side's quarter-final against the Black Cats, and it created a storm of controversy when the Reds won 3-0.

His selection this time is unlikely to bring any complaints from Toffees fans, especially as his side still picked up their third win in their last four league games without meeting much resistance from the visitors

So I'm sure Moyes may have learned a lesson in that itself. Both sides have merits and lets hope both sides are right. RVP can have a rest for one game, come on with 2 minutes to go and score a tap in and score a goal or 2 in every other game. Everybody wins

The Phantom Jipper

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I'm going to with joking here :pac: I'm pretty sure Everton had important games last season. I'm also pretty sure an FA cup semi-final against city rivals is a totally different kettle of fish to a 3rd round league cup game or CL group stage game for Man Utd. Especially as Everton were in no man's land as the league table in the article points out.

Another point in the article states:



So I'm sure Moyes may have learned a lesson in that itself. Both sides have merits and lets hope both sides are right. RVP can have a rest for one game, come on with 2 minutes to go and score a tap in and score a goal or 2 in every other game. Everybody wins

Ha I don't find the evidence wholly compelling but thought i'd play devil's advocate :pac:

Flicking through the last season or two, this was the first game that stood out as one where players might be rested and turns out some of them were. Hopefully it's indicative of some sort of Moyesian predisposition for resting big players, i'll sleep a little easier each Friday if so.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Utd have played two bleedin' games and we're talking about resting players? Its not the over 50s Sunday cup.

Iused2likebusts

Ronan Jolly Saffron wrote: »

Utd have played two bleedin' games and we're talking about resting players? Its not the over 50s Sunday cup.

Im talking about the 13 or 14 games utd face between Sept 14 and Nov 10( plus 2 international games for all the players). Which unlike previous seasons includes 4 tough CL games and a Carling Cup tie where I feel Utd will need to field near enough their strongest side. What Im questioning is when kagawa, A young, nani , giggs Hernandez and zaha will get game time. If you assume that there are 10 players going for four attacking positions and Valencia, wellbeck, rooney, rvp seem to be the main 4 as it stands. The other 6 need games and will get games. I feel unlike previous seasons they cant throw them in for the carling cup or a CL tie against Cluj. Looking at utds fixture list this season it seems more likely than other seasons that it could be some of the easier home league games

Mr.Prodston

Europa League Draw:

Swansea: Valencia, Kuban Krasnodar, St Gallen

Spurs: Anzhi, FC Sheriff, Tromso

Neither look too difficult bar Valencia for Swansea although Kuban (Russia) have Djibril Cisse and Ibrahima Balde as the 2 most recognisable names, to me anyway. FC Gallen should be ok and a nice trip to Switzerland.

Spurs also travel to Russia to face Anzhi who may well have no players left :pac: Tromso from Norway should be handy. FC Sheriff should be easily negotiated but travelling to Moldova is the biggest issue there.

Could be a lot worse although naturally Spurs have the better of things.

basillarkin

The pressure Moyes is under is immense, it will be harder if he loses a couple of games or starts to fall behind City or Chelsea for that reason alone he wont be resting players, expect RVP t play in every game.

Iused2likebusts

basillarkin wrote: »

The pressure Moyes is under is immense, it will be harder if he loses a couple of games or starts to fall behind City or Chelsea for that reason alone he wont be resting players, expect RVP t play in every game.

not qualifying from the cl group would also heap huge pressure on him

Lemlin

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Im talking about the 13 or 14 games utd face between Sept 14 and Nov 10( plus 2 international games for all the players). Which unlike previous seasons includes 4 tough CL games and a Carling Cup tie where I feel Utd will need to field near enough their strongest side. What Im questioning is when kagawa, A young, nani , giggs Hernandez and zaha will get game time. If you assume that there are 10 players going for four attacking positions and Valencia, wellbeck, rooney, rvp seem to be the main 4 as it stands. The other 6 need games and will get games. I feel unlike previous seasons they cant throw them in for the carling cup or a CL tie against Cluj. Looking at utds fixture list this season it seems more likely than other seasons that it could be some of the easier home league games

Other than a semi final or final, when was the last time United started "near enough their strongest side" in a Carling Cup game? No matter who the opposition was.

basillarkin

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

not qualifying from the cl group would also heap huge pressure on him

that's why i believe RVP will play all league and CL games

Lemlin

basillarkin wrote: »

that's why i believe RVP will play all league and CL games

I don't believe he'll play them all. I think he'll probably miss one, maybe two, but I'm not overly worried about it.

After all, Wenger rested him two years ago against Sunderland and he came on for 20 or 30 minutes and scored a brace and took all three bonus.

Iused2likebusts

Lemlin wrote: »

Other than a semi final or final, when was the last time United started "near enough their strongest side" in a Carling Cup game? No matter who the opposition was.

they never do but liverpool is different. Despite liverpools demise its still the game Utd fans love to win and vice versa. Im sure all the utd fans on here would expect a stronger than usual carling cup team for that game. Its a mickey mouse competition but liverpool will be at full strength and I suspect Utd will be stronger than usual.

Iused2likebusts

basillarkin wrote: »

that's why i believe RVP will play all league and CL games

Fair enough he may do there will be a lot of frustrated players in utds squad if he does and a media circus over Rooney to deal with.

Iused2likebusts

Lemlin wrote: »

I don't believe he'll play them all. I think he'll probably miss one, maybe two, but I'm not overly worried about it.

After all, Wenger rested him two years ago against Sunderland and he came on for 20 or 30 minutes and scored a brace and took all three bonus.

I really cant understand why you didnt have him in your starting team this year such is your belief in him.

Invincible

Luiz started tonight in Supercup, should feature in league front here on.

Lemlin

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I really cant understand why you didnt have him in your starting team this year such is your belief in him.

This isn't about my belief in him tbh. It's more about my belief that you are giving out information which is incorrect.

As others have pointed out, there's very little evidence or precedence that RVP will be rested for any significant number of games.

basillarkin

Is Schürrle a cheap way into the Chelsea mid? Luiz playing well tonight, are Terrys days as a starter under threat?

Iused2likebusts

Lemlin wrote: »

This isn't about my belief in him tbh. It's more about my belief that you are giving out information which is incorrect.

As others have pointed out, there's very little evidence or precedence that RVP will be rested for any significant number of games.

What information am I giving out thats incorrect ? I have my doubts whether he will start all league games over the next two months is what I have said.Never mentioned a significant amount of games. Im not comfortable picking a player for 14 million that I feel may be rested even if its only once. Im wildcarding with the next two months in mind. Ive giving my arguments why I think its possible he may miss some PL time compared to last year. When I dropped RVP last year I looked back at utd teamsheets in and around CL games in seasons gone by and found that on a number of occasions the big guns Ronaldo, Rooney were benched. For the next 8 league games Ive an opinion nearly everyone else on here has a different opinion thats fine. Management is a complicated thing and Moyes has a lot of things to juggle and weigh up the next two months. I think he may do one thing, you think he will do another thing. Moyes has never managed RVP or a big squad so neither of us know what will happen. What happened last year is gone different circumstances.
I play the game in a riskier fashion than yourself. I like to anticipate something happening you require a degree of certainty.Both of us have a good history so both approaches can work.
Anyway I respect your opinion and it was interesting reading the rvp/bale thread as we both have swapped sides in the have rvp in your team debate. Im thinking I just like to be different. One things for sure Im not going to take Rory C's place around here:)

Invincible

basillarkin wrote: »

Is Schürrle a cheap way into the Chelsea mid? Luiz playing well tonight, are Terrys days as a starter under threat?

I'd say he considers Luiz a more mobile player compared to Terry, might rotate them.

Lemlin

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

What information am I giving out thats incorrect ? I have my doubts whether he will start all league games over the next two months is what I have said.Never mentioned a significant amount of games. Im not comfortable picking a player for 14 million that I feel may be rested even if its only once. Im wildcarding with the next two months in mind. Ive giving my arguments why I think its possible he may miss some PL time compared to last year. When I dropped RVP last year I looked back at utd teamsheets in and around CL games in seasons gone by and found that on a number of occasions the big guns Ronaldo, Rooney were benched. For the next 8 league games Ive an opinion nearly everyone else on here has a different opinion thats fine. Management is a complicated thing and Moyes has a lot of things to juggle and weigh up the next two months. I think he may do one thing, you think he will do another thing. Moyes has never managed RVP or a big squad so neither of us know what will happen. What happened last year is gone different circumstances.
I play the game in a riskier fashion than yourself. I like to anticipate something happening you require a degree of certainty.Both of us have a good history so both approaches can work.
Anyway I respect your opinion and it was interesting reading the rvp/bale thread as we both have swapped sides in the have rvp in your team debate. Im thinking I just like to be different. One things for sure Im not going to take Rory C's place around here:)

I wouldn't see how we've swapped sides. I always said I would start without RVP but would be ready to get him in. I also said I could see both sides of the argument.

In regards to Moyes, we may only be two games in but I've seen nothing to show that he's making huge changes at United yet.

In the past, Moyes hadn't rotated to any significant degree, United haven't rotated to any significant degree, RVP hasn't been rotated to any significant degree - that's reason enough for me.

I wouldn't say I require a degree of certainty. I often make moves based on what I expect to happen e.g. Getting Walcott in for tomorrow, getting Suarez and Walcott in pre big hauls last year.

For me, past performance is an indicator of future performance and what managers generally did in the past is what they will do in the future.

We'll leave it there anyway.

Iused2likebusts

Lemlin wrote: »

I wouldn't see how we've swapped sides. I always said I would start without RVP but would be ready to get him in. I also said I could see both sides of the argument.

In regards to Moyes, we may only be two games in but I've seen nothing to show that he's making huge changes at United yet.

In the past, Moyes hadn't rotated to any significant degree, United haven't rotated to any significant degree, RVP hasn't been rotated to any significant degree - that's reason enough for me.

I wouldn't say I require a degree of certainty. I often make moves based on what I expect to happen e.g. Getting Walcott in for tomorrow, getting Suarez and Walcott in pre big hauls last year.

For me, past performance is an indicator of future performance and what managers generally did in the past is what they will do in the future.

We'll leave it there anyway.

Moyes never had to rotate no europe and not enough good players managing everton and utd is a whole new ball game. Im almost certain Ferguson once went 100 games without picking the same team.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2009/may/13/alex-ferguson-rotation-manchester-united

We are going around in circles anyway so ye lets leave it at that.
The real argument anyway is is he worth the 14million even if he plays every week.

Lemlin

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Moyes never had to rotate no europe and not enough good players managing everton and utd is a whole new ball game. Im almost certain Ferguson once went 100 games without picking the same team.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2009/may/13/alex-ferguson-rotation-manchester-united

We are going around in circles anyway so ye lets leave it at that.
The real argument anyway is is he worth the 14million even if he plays every week.

From the article:

"Ferguson, instead, has made rotation his forte, using a combination of computer analysis and his judgment. He has used 34 players this season, with Ronaldo, Patrice Evra, Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic the only outfield ­players to have started 40 or more games. Veterans such as Ryan Giggs, with 14 league starts, and Paul Scholes, with 13, have been deployed with strategic care, as has Edwin van der Sar, routinely left out of domestic cup ties."

Supporting players were rotated but his main attacking player Ronaldo was one of the few to start 40 games plus.

The article states it was Benitez went 100 games.

moreau

Invincible wrote: »

Luiz started tonight in Supercup, should feature in league front here on.

An important piece of info. I presume CB? Don't think I will be going Cahill or Terry now in WC. Luiz is surely way too good to be regular bench fodder

Would be really interesting if luiz took up midfield position though...

Lemlin

From Spurs Twitter:

We are delighted to announce that we have reached agreement with Ajax for the transfer of Christian Eriksen #THFC pic.twitter.com/ElUyojSiPn

Fook me, Spurs are like David O'Leary's Leeds when it comes to snapping players up.

Skippy44

Lemlin wrote: »

From Spurs Twitter:

We are delighted to announce that we have reached agreement with Ajax for the transfer of Christian Eriksen #THFC pic.twitter.com/ElUyojSiPn

Fook me, Spurs are like David O'Leary's Leeds when it comes to snapping players up.

You're right there! Paulinho a tad better than Seth Johnson tho. :pac:

Iused2likebusts

Lemlin wrote: »

From the article:

"Ferguson, instead, has made rotation his forte, using a combination of computer analysis and his judgment. He has used 34 players this season, with Ronaldo, Patrice Evra, Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic the only outfield ­players to have started 40 or more games. Veterans such as Ryan Giggs, with 14 league starts, and Paul Scholes, with 13, have been deployed with strategic care, as has Edwin van der Sar, routinely left out of domestic cup ties."

Supporting players were rotated but his main attacking player Ronaldo was one of the few to start 40 games plus.

The article states it was Benitez went 100 games.

You said utd dont rotate they clearly do. You are twisting things around now.Ferguson was on 65 games of not picking the same team come that night. It went on after that. His selection of rvp last year was unlike his management style of the 10 years before that. Ive researched it Im not sure you have. Mainly IMO because he was retiring and wanted to make sure he won the league. Ronaldo didnt feature in a tough league game before a Cl semi final that year it was the year liverpool were close going for the title.The previous year ronaldo was left on the bench in a vital league game against chelsea before a cl game. It doesnt matter what I say your just going to keep turning it around. RVP didnt get rotated last year Ive accepted that. I tried to draw a line under it a couple of posts back but you had to come back with another little bite. This is my last post on the matter as Im sure its boring the forum.

Well I don't think Mourinho will be trusting Lukaku much this season.

Rikand

Dónal wrote: »

Well I don't think Mourinho will be trusting Lukaku much this season.

Back out on loan to WBA to replace Anelka ?

Lemlin

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

You said utd dont rotate they clearly do. You are twisting things around now.Ferguson was on 65 games of not picking the same team come that night. It went on after that. His selection of rvp last year was unlike his management style of the 10 years before that. Ive researched it Im not sure you have. Mainly IMO because he was retiring and wanted to make sure he won the league. Ronaldo didnt feature in a tough league game before a Cl semi final that year it was the year liverpool were close going for the title.The previous year ronaldo was left on the bench in a vital league game against chelsea before a cl game. It doesnt matter what I say your just going to keep turning it around. RVP didnt get rotated last year Ive accepted that. I tried to draw a line under it a couple of posts back but you had to come back with another little bite. This is my last post on the matter as Im sure its boring the forum.

I think you'll find I said we'd leave it at that several posts and it was you who came back with that article.

My point does stand. I'm not twisting anything. The article you posted states United don't rotate the players we would be interested in for FF (Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo etc.) but does rotate the players nobody in their right mind would have (Giggs, Scholes). I'm only interested in FF players on this forum.

Will Ferguson rotate Carrick, Cleverley and Smalling? I'm not really bothered knowing because I wouldn't pick them anyway.

I don't see how you can say his selection of RVP last year was unlike the ten years before then. The article you yourself posted shows Ronaldo was one of few players to play 40 games plus. Ferguson knew his best players and he played them the most. Rotation didn't effect them.

Your example of this widespread rotation is Ronaldo being rested for one game. You seem to be confusing what I'd see as "rotation" and just giving a player a rest every ten games or so. A player not starting one game is not rotation IMO.

Anyway, we'll leave it there.

Posada

Jeez. I AM bored.

But regarding the 'Is RVP worth €14m question'..

The answer is (on today, the 30 August 2013) and in 'QI' style...

NOBODY KNOWS!