Qualifiers Round 2

Cosmo Kramer

Dubliner28 wrote: »

Why are the matches split over two weekends? Is this the norm? Taught they were all played on the one weekend?

Yes, there was always a five/three split in the schedule to try to avoid six or seven day turnarounds for losing teams. I thought they might hold the Leitrim game back for a week because their first match went to a replay, but it seems that won't happen.

If I was going to call a surprise result from that lot, I think Laois might be vulnerable having to go to Clare. Micko will have Clare well up for that one.

wow sierra

Always_Running wrote: »

Could have a lot of Ulster sides in the last eight this year. Why aren't Leitrim given the week off? bit much playing three weeks in a row.

Yes totally unfair - it would be differenent if all the games were next weekend. It is obvious that the other beaten SemiFinalists from this weekend were deliberatly given an extra week - Cavan, Kildare, WEXFORD. Surely it wasn't so hard for someone to think of including Leitrim.

wow sierra

FrToddUnxious wrote: »

Again... this just shows the unfairness of this championship yet again.
Roscommon are last team to play C ship on 16 June and against Mayo. No. 2 in the country. And now drawn against Tyrone. Probably No. 6 in the country.
Game over. Ball burst for that county's team and supporters for the year. All that training for what?
IMO provincial competitions should play off in spring. And have a champs league format in the Summer. Where all teams get 3 games with strong, medium and weak teams in each group.

I am from Roscommon and while we have had bad luck in the draw today and I am sick about it - I think it is the best system. The Provincial Championship would lose it's appeal if it lost the link with the All Ireland series. There were 20 thousand at the MayoRoscommon game - including me - not a hope would you get that kind of interest in the lopsided draws in a Champions League format. The whole London story which is huge this year could never happen and the Roscommon/Sligo Connaught Final of 2010. These are the amazing GAA days that sustain people on the bad days. And then the Qualifiers are there for the great teams like Tyrone etc who are unlucky to be beaten in strong provinces.

Dubliner28

Hidalgo wrote: »

Derry V Down the pick of next weekends games for a TV game. Although KK V Tipp in hurling will surely be televised Sat evening so maybe one game @5p.m and the other @7.
Sunday TV time slots taken up with provincial finals afaik

Think KK and Tipp is on TV3 with RTE having a game also

munchkin_utd

Hidalgo wrote: »

Derry V Down the pick of next weekends games for a TV game. Although KK V Tipp in hurling will surely be televised Sat evening so maybe one game @5p.m and the other @7.
Sunday TV time slots taken up with provincial finals afaik

Kildare v Louth might be a more likely pick for the TV company seeing as theres such a dislike for competitive Ulster football down south and 2 teams in the Pale would fit more the Dublin-centric world view of TV 3/ RTE to be honest.

awec

Don't watch much GAA, but what are Leitrim like? From my very limited knowledge of Armagh we are a bit hit and miss, whats the chances of us going through?

Fowler87

Derry/Down and Cavan/Fermanagh... any of these not play each other already this year Or have the GAA changed the qualifier system?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

awec wrote: »

Don't watch much GAA, but what are Leitrim like? From my very limited knowledge of Armagh we are a bit hit and miss, whats the chances of us going through?

I'm fairly sure there are a few clubs with a bigger player selection than Leitrim. Armagh should beat them easily. Jamie Clarke is one of the best forwards, of not the best, in the game. He's also backed up by a very decent team. Leitrim on the other hand are probably one of the worst counties in the country, but again, their small population is obviously a big factor. Emlyn Mulligan is their standout player, and would probably start for most teams in the country, but unfortunately he's not in a very good team. Armagh by more than 6 for me.

WallyGUFC

Excellent draw again for Galway. Could finally start building some momentum in the qualifiers, at long last.

leonidas83

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Excellent draw again for Galway. Could finally start building some momentum in the qualifiers, at long last.

Yes, that second half for Galway against Tipperary was extremely important, their confidence in Qualifiers must have been rock bottom after the dissapointments of recent years. If they beat Waterford I could see them giving one of the bigger counties a hell of a game

FrToddUnxious

wow sierra wrote: »

I am from Roscommon and while we have had bad luck in the draw today and I am sick about it - I think it is the best system. The Provincial Championship would lose it's appeal if it lost the link with the All Ireland series. There were 20 thousand at the MayoRoscommon game - including me - not a hope would you get that kind of interest in the lopsided draws in a Champions League format. The whole London story which is huge this year could never happen and the Roscommon/Sligo Connaught Final of 2010. These are the amazing GAA days that sustain people on the bad days. And then the Qualifiers are there for the great teams like Tyrone etc who are unlucky to be beaten in strong provinces.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I dont think the provincial competition would lose that much appeal if played in feb march april. And of course we could see surprises in a champs league style in the summer. Im not too worried if 20, 000 turn out to watch mayo hammer roscommon. Id rather 8000 turn out to a competitive game. This system is going to widen the gap. Of course Irish people in general dont like change. Do it the way we always did lads......

robbiezero

The provincial championships only appeal to those teams who have no chance in the All-Ireland series, There is no real reason to link them to the All Ireland series any more.
The 4 provincial finals will be largely worthless affairs this year. Dublin and Mayo likely to win easily. Donegal likely to just strangle Monaghan, and I'm not sure if Kerry and Cork will be flat out either in their final.

Fireball07

Disappointed that Derry & Down...and Cavan & Fermanagh have been drawn together again. I'm sure the games will be good, but I like to see new matchups at the same time.

jkmanc1974

Galway blessed again here....big chance of building some momentum and hopefully Mulholland will keep his role.....feel sorry for Roscommon with a terrible draw though!

Brgds
Johnny

Lemlin

Fireball07 wrote: »

Disappointed that Derry & Down...and Cavan & Fermanagh have been drawn together again. I'm sure the games will be good, but I like to see new matchups at the same time.

It's very boring for supporters tbh. It's the third time we'll have played Fermanagh this year and the fourth time in the last two years. We'll also be playing them at least once next year in the league.

It also leaves all the momentum lieing with them. They're coming off the back of a good win and will be eager to put us back in our place.

We're coming off a narrow loss that will have hit a young team that had their backs up.

Teams who've played each other shouldn't be drawn again when there are 8 sides in each pot.

munchkin_utd

Lemlin wrote: »

<snip>

Teams who've played each other shouldn't be drawn again when there are 8 sides in each pot.

it was said that it makes the draw too complicated but obviously you are going to have some level of complexity with a draw and I cant see how this could be too complicated to follow.

If I understand it right, one pot was the winners of the last round and the other pot was the loosers of provincial semis.
So very simply, you were to say line up the 8teams who won as team A1, A2, A3, A4 etc etc.
Then pull teams from pot B, the first to play A1, second A2 etc and should a clash be a repeat (and you need to be careful coming to end of the draw too) then move the drawn semifinal looser to the next available slot.
You'd need to draw home and away advantage separately then, but sure thats not really making it overcomplicated is it?

Lemlin

munchkin_utd wrote: »

it was said that it makes the draw too complicated but obviously you are going to have some level of complexity with a draw and I cant see how this could be too complicated to follow.

If I understand it right, one pot was the winners of the last round and the other pot was the loosers of provincial semis.
So very simply, you were to say line up the 8teams who won as team A1, A2, A3, A4 etc etc.
Then pull teams from pot B, the first to play A1, second A2 etc and should a clash be a repeat (and you need to be careful coming to end of the draw too) then move the drawn semifinal looser to the next available slot.
You'd need to draw home and away advantage separately then, but sure thats not really making it overcomplicated is it?

Laughable coming from an organisation the size of the GAA.

eamonpk

When do they announce confirmed dates and times for the fixtures - tonight? A number of games will be played this Saturday which is 5 days away so hopefully they will announce them soon

scatman carruthers

Id say tomorrow morning everything will be confirmed eamon. We may have some Sunday qualifiers again seeing as I think Derry v Sligo and Armagh v Wicklow were played yesterday, first time I can remember those on a Sunday being played

Always_Running

Saturday, July 6

GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship Round 2

Galway v Waterford, Pearse Stadium, Salthill, 2.30pm
Clare v Laois, Cusack Park, Ennis, 5pm
Derry v Down, Celtic Park, 5pm
Roscommon v Tyrone, Dr Hyde Park, 6pm

Saturday, July 13

GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship Round 2

Longford v Wexford, Glennon Brothers Pearse Park, 2pm
Leitrim v Armagh, Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada, 5pm
Cavan v Fermanagh, Kingspan Breffni Park, 7pm
Kildare v Louth, Newbridge, 7pm

Leitrim given the week off afterall

InchicoreDude

My predictions

Always_Running wrote: »

Saturday, July 6

GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship Round 2

Galway v Waterford, Pearse Stadium, Salthill, 2.30pm
Clare v Laois, Cusack Park, Ennis, 5pm
Derry v Down, Celtic Park, 5pm
Roscommon v Tyrone, Dr Hyde Park, 6pm

Saturday, July 13

GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship Round 2

Longford v Wexford, Glennon Brothers Pearse Park, 2pm
Leitrim v Armagh, Páirc Seán Mac Diarmada, 5pm
Cavan v Fermanagh, Kingspan Breffni Park, 7pm
Kildare v Louth, Newbridge, 7pm

Leitrim given the week off afterall

legendary.xix

munchkin_utd wrote: »

it was said that it makes the draw too complicated but obviously you are going to have some level of complexity with a draw and I cant see how this could be too complicated to follow.

I'm in the minority but I'll have my say... I think the early rounds of qualifiers should take place within provinces. There can be too long a gap between teams knocked out of their province and their qualifier game.

Take Munster:
Quarter-finals
Kerry beat Tipperary
Cork beat Limerick
Semi-finals
Kerry beat Waterford
Cork beat Clare

In the qualifiers - Tipperary v Clare, two losing teams from opposite sides of the draw.
Limerick v Waterford, two losing teams from opposite sides of the draw.

Do something similar in each province, drawing teams from opposite sides of provincial championships.

The last 16 in the All-Ireland are the 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier round 2 winners. If early qualifiers were within provinces, it could be set-up that half the teams from each province make the last 16. This would bring fairness where different provinces have different numbers.

Munster (6) - 2 provincial finalists and only 1 qualifier in the last 16.
Connaught (6) - 2 provincial finalists and only 1 qualifier in the last 16.
Ulster (9) - 2 provincial finalists and 2 or 3 qualifiers in the last 16.
Leinster (11) - 2 provincial finalists and 3 or 4 qualifier in the last 16.

The uneven number between Ulster and Leinster could be sorted as follows: Ulster preliminary round loser join the Leinster qualifying section. This way 2 qualifiers come from Ulster and 4 from the Leinster section, but 1 from Leinster could be an Ulster team if they get through.

There's often complaints Connaught and Munster teams have less games but if there was an even distribution of last 16 places it would bring fairness.

Are Rounds 3 and 4 of the qualifiers necessary? The GAA could bring in a Round of 16. Draw provincial winners at home against the 4 lowest qualifier round 2 winners based on league placing. Draw provincial runners-up against the remaining qualifier round 2 winners with separate draw for home tie. This would give provincial grounds around the country some real All-Ireland knock-out games before the quarter-finals onwards in Croke Park.

K-9

wow sierra wrote: »

Yes totally unfair - it would be differenent if all the games were next weekend. It is obvious that the other beaten SemiFinalists from this weekend were deliberatly given an extra week - Cavan, Kildare, WEXFORD. Surely it wasn't so hard for someone to think of including Leitrim.

I'd assume it was because Leitrim had a bye into the Connacht SF.

intellectual dosser

K-9 wrote: »

I'd assume it was because Leitrim had a bye into the Connacht SF.

Leitrim played New York.

bob skunkhouse

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the validity of the draw itself.
Whats the chances of Derry being drawn against Down - having played them already, ditto for Cavan v Fermanagh. I'm sure the odds must be up there close to a lotto win. Also, how convenient that Clare draw Laois, playing them in the hurling as well....no surprise there either. I hope there were no Ernst and Young auditors watching over the draw!

Syferus

bob skunkhouse wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the validity of the draw itself.
Whats the chances of Derry being drawn against Down - having played them already, ditto for Cavan v Fermanagh. I'm sure the odds must be up there close to a lotto win. Also, how convenient that Clare draw Laois, playing them in the hurling as well....no surprise there either. I hope there were no Ernst and Young auditors watching over the draw!

zzzzzz...conspiracy...zzzzz

Lemlin

bob skunkhouse wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the validity of the draw itself.
Whats the chances of Derry being drawn against Down - having played them already, ditto for Cavan v Fermanagh. I'm sure the odds must be up there close to a lotto win. Also, how convenient that Clare draw Laois, playing them in the hurling as well....no surprise there either. I hope there were no Ernst and Young auditors watching over the draw!

It's been fairly clear that the draw was rigged since the run Dublin got in 2004 in the qualifiers. In 2002, the Dubs pulled in bumper crowds for the GAA on their run to the semis.

In 2003 though, they exited early to Laois and then Armagh so these large crowds and the revenue were lost.

In 2004, the Dubs again lost to Westmeath and the GAA wanted to ensure they'd get a few bumper crowds again so they were drawn against London, Leitrim, Longford and then Roscommon. An easier route through the qualifiers will never be seen again!

I also don't believe for a minute that Kildare and Cavan just happened to draw each other last year with all the controversy that had gone in the six months previous. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see the same draw again should Cavan and Kildare both win in round 2.

intellectual dosser

Rigging a draw wouldn't be easy to keep under wraps...if they've been doing it for a decade it would more or less be known by now via Chinese Whispers. To be fair the GAA are making an effort keep ticket prices affordable for families, I don't see the huge financial incentive of rigging a draw to pull in an extra 50,000 - 100,000 attendees over the course of a year.

Its the qualifiers, strong teams draw weaker teams because the other strong teams are still in their provincial championships, the rest I'll put down to coincidence.

Lemlin

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Rigging a draw wouldn't be easy to keep under wraps...if they've been doing it for a decade it would more or less be known by now via Chinese Whispers. To be fair the GAA are making an effort keep ticket prices affordable for families, I don't see the huge financial incentive of rigging a draw to pull in an extra 50,000 - 100,000 attendees over the course of a year.

Its the qualifiers, strong teams draw weaker teams because the other strong teams are still in their provincial championships, the rest I'll put down to coincidence.

Plenty of people have alleged over time that the draw is rigged. Even several county players at the weekend tweeted about it.

During the 00's it was widely believed that Ulster counties were drawn against each other in the early rounds to knock some of them out when Ulster was particulary strong.

There are plenty of Chinese whispers about the draw being rigged.

derealbadger

Lemlin wrote: »

Plenty of people have alleged over time that the draw is rigged. Even several county players at the weekend tweeted about it.

During the 00's it was widely believed that Ulster counties were drawn against each other in the early rounds to knock some of them out when Ulster was particulary strong.

There are plenty of Chinese whispers about the draw being rigged.

Is that you Jim by the way your sister's are hot