N.I census correction,,catholics even closer

Iwasfrozen

SoulandForm wrote: »

Remaining within the UK has crippled north east Ulster.

The "south" has no moral right to abandon not only an integral part of the Irish nation but the area where the dream of the Irish Republic were bred and born.

You mean the Irish Republic has no moral duty to the burden that would be Northern Ireland.

SoulandForm wrote: »

The Irish nation is not simply a head count of those entitled to vote but the long generations past who forged her spirit and where forged by it as well as the generations of Irish women and men yet to be born. You have no moral right based on selfish, what could easily be called grubby, motives to deny and fight against the assertion of control over this nation's destiny by herself.

Words are wind and this is all empty rhetoric. If you truly cared about your country you wouldn't risk it's economic and political stability by taking on Northern Ireland.

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

well said lad

Soulandform is of the fairer sex.

SoulandForm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You mean the Irish Republic has no moral duty to the burden that would be Northern Ireland.


Words are wind and this is all empty rhetoric. If you truly cared about your country you wouldn't risk it's economic and political stability by taking on Northern Ireland.

My country is Ireland- all 32 counties of it- the two states murderously imposed on the Irish nation by English guns are not countries, they are states, and furthermore states which have no moral legitimacy to exist. People's loyalty is owed to the actual Irish Republic declared in 1916 and embraced democratically by the people in the 1918 election and to neither of the failed states.

Iwasfrozen

SoulandForm wrote: »

My country is Ireland- all 32 counties of it- the two states murderously imposed on the Irish nation by English guns are not countries, they are states, and furthermore states which have no moral legitimacy to exist. People's loyalty is owed to the actual Irish Republic declared in 1916 and embraced democratically by the people in the 1918 election and to neither of the failed states.

I have to disagree. My country is Ireland. 26 counties. Northern Ireland is a foreign country full of foreign people with foreign ideas and problems. We share some elements of culture as is to be expected of neighbouring nations but our divergent history has resulted in numerous idiosyncrasies distinct from the South.

Your illogical reverence of the the first Dáil is full of almost religious fanaticism and frankly that scares me. I don't want people who think like you in power.

SoulandForm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I have to disagree. My country is Ireland. 26 counties. Northern Ireland is a foreign country full of foreign people with foreign ideas and problems. We share some elements of culture as is to be expected of neighbouring nations but our divergent history has resulted in numerous idiosyncrasies distinct from the South.

Your illogical reverence of the the first Dáil is full of almost religious fanaticism and frankly that scares me. I don't want people who think like you in power.

Im sure a lot of people believe something extremely similar about Dublin Four and Greystones if not more strongly in Tallaght and Kerry. Yes Ulster people have traits that make them distinctive from the rest of the country- but three of Ulster's counties are in what you call the "Irish Republic".

Im sure if I looked up your posts on purely economic questions I would find a fair degree of "Im alright jack" individualism there too- and if that is indeed the case I could easily point to messes created here in Ireland and further afflied by "people who think like you" actually in power. I will definitely say that it was people thinking along similar lines to you who have thrown away the small degree of freedom that the Free State actually had to the EU and the IMF.

Anyway back the OP- Republicans rejected a British border poll on principle when the British viceroy to Ireland organized one in the occupied north east of Ulster before in the early 1970s and no matter what the sectarian headcount they will do so again if another such poll is called.

Iwasfrozen

SoulandForm wrote: »

Im sure a lot of people believe something extremely similar about Dublin Four and Greystones if not more strongly in Tallaght and Kerry. Yes Ulster people have traits that make them distinctive from the rest of the country- but three of Ulster's counties are in what you call the "Irish Republic".

Im sure if I looked up your posts on purely economic questions I would find a fair degree of "Im alright jack" individualism there too- and if that is indeed the case I could easily point to messes created here in Ireland and further afflied by "people who think like you" actually in power. I will definitely say that it was people thinking along similar lines to you who have thrown away the small degree of freedom that the Free State actually had to the EU and the IMF.

Anyway back the OP- Republicans rejected a British border poll on principle when the British viceroy to Ireland organized one in the occupied north east of Ulster before in the early 1970s and no matter what the sectarian headcount if they will do so again if another such poll is called.

Not true. No one considers Tallaght or Kerry to be separate nations in their own right. Nor would such a claim even be justified as it is with NI as neither Tallaght or Kerry have shared distinct experiences from the rest of the republic that has shaped their culture.

If you want simplistically blame one stakeholder for economic crisis blame the socialisation of private debt. If people like me were in charge the banks would have defaulted because I wouldn't waste public money and risk economic stability to prop them up. No more then I will waste public money and risk economic stability to prop up Northern Ireland. The primary duty of care of the Irish government is the Irish people. Others like the Banks and people of Northern Ireland come second.

Back on topic the only way to unify Ireland is for Republicans to swallow their pride and carry out what you facetiously call a "head count". Not that it will matter unification is not even on the table at the moment. I'm a young man and I don't think I'll see it in my lifetime.

ardmacha

Not true. No one considers Tallaght or Kerry to be separate nations in their own right. Nor would such a claim even be justified as it is with NI as neither Tallaght or Kerry have shared distinct experiences from the rest of the republic that has shaped their culture.

Nobody in their right mind thinks NI is a separate nation in its own right. It is a part of Ireland with a lot of immigrants, but the same could be said of Mulhuddart. Kerry has greater claim to distinctiveness.

Iwasfrozen

ardmacha wrote: »

Nobody in their right mind thinks NI is a separate nation in its own right. It is a part of Ireland with a lot of immigrants, but the same could be said of Mulhuddart. Kerry has greater claim to distinctiveness.

Well let's break that statement down. What would you consider the characteristics of a nation to be? And I will show you how those characteristics apply to Northern Ireland.

ardmacha

What would you consider the characteristics of a nation to be?

As enshrined in the Irish constitution and agreed in the Good Friday Agreement.
"It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation"

Nobody has ever claimed NI to be a nation, except you.

Iwasfrozen

ardmacha wrote: »

As enshrined in the Irish constitution and agreed in the Good Friday Agreement.
"It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation"

Nobody has ever claimed NI to be a nation, except you.

That's not answering my question.

What would you consider the characteristics of a nation to be? Not the Irish nation (As you claim it to be). Then I will show you how those characteristics apply to Northern Ireland.

junder

ardmacha wrote: »

As enshrined in the Irish constitution and agreed in the Good Friday Agreement.
"It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation"

Nobody has ever claimed NI to be a nation, except you.

And most of the unionist community who would see Northern Ireland as a nation

junder

ardmacha wrote: »

Nobody in their right mind thinks NI is a separate nation in its own right. It is a part of Ireland with a lot of immigrants, but the same could be said of Mulhuddart. Kerry has greater claim to distinctiveness.

When does a person stop becoming a 'immigrant' how many generations have to pass?

ardmacha

When does a person stop becoming a 'immigrant' how many generations have to pass?

it is not a question of number of generations, it is simply a matter of a person identifying with a place, the people who live there and its traditions, rather than the place they came from. It could be 10 years, it could be 10 generations.

SoulandForm

junder wrote: »

When does a person stop becoming a 'immigrant' how many generations have to pass?

Of course you are Irish and not an immigrant however if you continue in your support of a foreign flag flying officially as the flag of government on Irish soil you have to expect comments like his. Under Eire Nua an Ulster regional assembly would have much greater powers than the current talking shop in Stormount.

Iwasfrozen

Don't tell me you believe in Eire Nua? I have nothing against Athlone but we're not making it the capital.