Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

N.I census correction,,catholics even closer

Options
245

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    I don't see them having a much stronger position regardless of the result of a border poll. The age demographic of the nationalist population is considerably younger that unionist. This would mean that polls every seven years would be called for given the changing demographics.
    How can you tell that?


  • Options
    #33
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    Who said anything about 100%? where are you getting that? 100% of such a large body of people wouldn't even agree that black is black. I am saying that society at large in Northern Ireland, which could be as straightforward as a simple majority of both broad communities respectively would agree to embark upon the union with the Republic.
    I agree with you, which is why unification is going to inevitably require coercion. But I don't understand how you expect a majority in both communities to agree to it, the day unionists give up on the union is the day they stop being unionist.


  • Options
    #34
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    That poll isn't exactly a good one either. It only shows us that people in Crossmaglen and Upper Cregan would support it (And considering there was only a 42% turnout it would be interesting to know what the opinions of the other 56% are).

    Err, its more than the turnout in certain referendums here!! In that case we might as well disregard all elections and referendums that have less than a 43% turnout!
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The poll was biased.

    I see democracy does not suit you when you have something against the residents of Crossmaglen?


  • Options
    #35
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    gurramok wrote: »
    I see democracy does not suit you when you have something against the residents of Crossmaglen?
    I have absolutely nothing against the good folks over at Crossmaglen I simply suspect their views are not indicative of greater Northern Ireland.


  • Options
    #36
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I have absolutely nothing against the good folks over at Crossmaglen I simply suspect their views are not indicative of greater Northern Ireland.

    Indeed they are probably not. They are reflective of the Nationalist population imo.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    I agree with you, which is why unification is going to inevitably require coercion

    Presumably, it will require less coercion than maintaining British rule, when a majority don't want it.
    But then again in these threads coercion of Irish people is always a matter of no consequence, while asking British people to stop trying to colonise the place is an infringement on their "human" rights.


  • Options
    #38
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I agree with you, which is why unification is going to inevitably require coercion.
    On;y in the sense that any democratic vote is "coercion"; it is certainly not compatible with legal usage of the word. Coercion is an unsuitable term by any definition, in fact, but if you prefer to use it in relation to democratic decision making by both communities respectively, so as you can try defend the rights of any vestigial crackpots and extremists, go ahead.


  • Options
    #39
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    On;y in the sense that any democratic vote is "coercion"; it is certainly not compatible with legal usage of the word. Coercion is an unsuitable term by any definition, in fact, but if you prefer to use it in relation to democratic decision making by both communities respectively, so as you can try defend the rights of any vestigial crackpots and extremists, go ahead.
    The only extremist is the one who calls ordinary unionists extremists. Any unionist who agrees to a United Ireland is by definition no longer a unionist.


  • Options
    #40
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Any unionist who agrees to a United Ireland is by definition no longer a unionist.

    And Nationalists who want to stay part of the UK, in your eyes Nationalists or Unionists?

    I'd agree they would become Unionists as per your definition.


  • Options
    #41
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    What about people in N.I., from either community who classify themselves as Northern Irish? They want to retain links to the UK, but not to the same degree as Unionists and want a good relationship with us down here but do not desire any form of amalgamation.

    Just wondering how they would be classified. Opinions?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The only extremist is the one who calls ordinary unionists extremists.
    I am envisaging a future scenario where there is a reasonable prospect of Unionism becoming an irrelevance. Do you realize you've clocked up a straw man in every single reply so far?


  • Options
    #43
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    gurramok wrote: »
    Err, its more than the turnout in certain referendums here!! In that case we might as well disregard all elections and referendums that have less than a 43% turnout!

    Fair enough then but how does a poll conducted in only two towns reflect the majority opinions in both NI and the ROI?


  • Options
    #44
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    I am envisaging a future scenario where there is a reasonable prospect of Unionism becoming an irrelevance. Do you realize you've clocked up a straw man in every single reply so far?
    It's fine if you want to work in the conditional tense but to bring that back to reality you have to have a reasonable link.


  • Options
    #45
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Fair enough then but how does a poll conducted in only two towns reflect the majority opinions in both NI and the ROI?

    Its an indicator of Nationalist opinion(as both places are overwhelmingly Nationalist in population) that the desire for a UI is still quite high and not as low as has been touted on this forum for a long time.


  • Options
    #46
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    gurramok wrote: »
    Its an indicator of Nationalist opinion(as both places are overwhelmingly Nationalist in population) that the desire for a UI is still quite high and not as low as has been touted on this forum for a long time.
    The whole point is that nationalists are not always catholic and vice versa.


  • Options
    #47
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    gallag wrote: »
    Hopefully that 10% grows and people continue to put tangible things like economic outlook, corruption and health care at the forefront of their decision making instead of what very slightly different way they worship a centuries old fable.

    Religion doesn't particularly influence opinion on the national question. One's upbringing, however,influences both religious and political views.


  • Options
    #48
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The whole point is that nationalists are not always catholic and vice versa.

    Can you answer the following?
    And Nationalists who want to stay part of the UK, in your eyes Nationalists or Unionists?


  • Options
    #49
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    It's fine if you want to work in the conditional tense but to bring that back to reality you have to have a reasonable link.
    I used the future tense and the imperfective aspect, no conditional.

    I presuming you are referring to my wish regarding Unionism being made to be an irrelevance some time in the future? How can anyone provide a link to an aspiration:confused:


  • Options
    #50
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    The tap will be slowly turned off and the concensus of 'we're in a better felt hole' will change. Britain is in the process of withdrawing by changing mindsets.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/europe/osborne-targets-ni-spending-1.1443981
    The south will recover economically and will be more attractive, simply because it makes economic sense not to be partitioned from the larger hinterland.


  • Options
    #51
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    gurramok wrote: »
    Its an indicator of Nationalist opinion(as both places are overwhelmingly Nationalist in population) that the desire for a UI is still quite high and not as low as has been touted on this forum for a long time.

    But it isn't. You can't base it on such a specific grouping. All it tells us is how people in those two towns feel about it.

    The matter would be decided by the populations of the ROI and NI. Also not everyone is a nationalist.

    It's a pretty pointless poll that they conducted because it doesn't add anything to their argument. It seems like they picked those two towns because they knew they would deliver the results they wanted for their polls.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The tap will be slowly turned off and the concensus of 'we're in a better felt hole' will change. Britain is in the process of withdrawing by changing mindsets.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/europe/osborne-targets-ni-spending-1.1443981
    The south will recover economically and will be more attractive, simply because it makes economic sense not to be partitioned from the larger hinterland.

    Did you read the article? Its actually pretty positive fo N.I, probably going to hurt N.I less than any other part of our Kingdom, dont forget about the 100billion capital projects that will be announced soon as I am sure N.I will benefit greatly from that, and with the latest news of Ireland slipping back into recession and probably going to need another bale out that your children will have to push onto your grandchildren it would seem your opinion is based in complete fantasy.


  • Options
    #53
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    But it isn't. You can't base it on such a specific grouping. All it tells us is how people in those two towns feel about it.

    The matter would be decided by the populations of the ROI and NI. Also not everyone is a nationalist.

    It's a pretty pointless poll that they conducted because it doesn't add anything to their argument. It seems like they picked those two towns because they knew they would deliver the results they wanted for their polls.

    You obviously didn't read what I said, I said "Its an indicator of Nationalist opinion", not the entire opinion of the NI population as a whole. Beats the Life and Times survey by a mile.


  • Options
    #54
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    gurramok wrote: »
    Can you answer the following?

    A nationalist who wants to stay part of the UK is not much of a nationalist.


  • Options
    #55
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    I used the future tense and the imperfective aspect, no conditional.

    I presuming you are referring to my wish regarding Unionism being made to be an irrelevance some time in the future? How can anyone provide a link to an aspiration:confused:

    lol not an internet link I ment a link from the conditional tense (or aspirational as you say) back to reality. Unionism will not be made an irrelevance any time soon and fair enough you may say this is just an aspiration but unless we're dealing in Walter Mitty stuff you have to provide a reasonable link from the aspiration back to reality.


  • Options
    #56
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    gurramok wrote: »
    You obviously didn't read what I said, I said "Its an indicator of Nationalist opinion", not the entire opinion of the NI population as a whole. Beats the Life and Times survey by a mile.

    I know what you said. It isn't an indicator of Nationalist opinion because it's too small a sample size. It doesn't take account of nationalist opinion outside those two towns nor is everyone a nationalist. And an opinion poll that takes a sample of people across NI and the ROI from all types of political background would give us a better idea because thats ultimately who would vote on it.

    The poll you used is by a group with an agenda that used a method that would guarantee the results that suited them. It's a useless poll.


  • Options
    #57
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    I know what you said. It isn't an indicator of Nationalist opinion because it's too small a sample size. It doesn't take account of nationalist opinion outside those two towns nor is everyone a nationalist. And an opinion poll that takes a sample of people across NI and the ROI from all types of political background would give us a better idea because thats ultimately who would vote on it.

    The poll you used is by a group with an agenda that used a method that would guarantee the results that suited them. It's a useless poll.

    Nope, it was run with input from all political parties and community groups. Its a poll whose purpose is to gauge opinion of the Nationalist community and now we have it. This electoral poll certifies that the wish for a UI is quite high within the Nationalist community despite all the surveys(not electoral polls) that have been quoted here.


  • Options
    #58
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    gurramok wrote: »
    Nope, it was run with input from all political parties and community groups. Its a poll whose purpose is to gauge opinion of the Nationalist community and now we have it. This electoral poll certifies that the wish for a UI is quite high within the Nationalist community despite all the surveys(not electoral polls) that have been quoted here.

    As ive said numerous times these two towns don't represent the entire nationalist community.


  • Options
    #59
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    As ive said numerous times these two towns don't represent the entire nationalist community.

    That's in your opinion which is based on what? At least we have valid opinion of 2 Nationalist towns at hand.


  • Options
    #60
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    gurramok wrote: »
    That's in your opinion which is based on what? At least we have valid opinion of 2 Nationalist towns at hand.

    No thats fact based on the fact that the whole nationalist community doesn't live solely in those two towns.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    No thats fact based on the fact that the whole nationalist community doesn't live solely in those two towns.

    What? So you have no basis to assume the Nationalist community do not want re-unification?!
    As well as this electoral poll, they do vote for UI parties like SDLP and SF.


Advertisement