B&I Lions v Wallabies, Match Thread, Sat June 22, 1105am

irishbucsfan

trouttrout wrote: »

Are there examples of Zebo defending like that since that game?

Im not questioning Zebos ability at all

Bogota

trouttrout wrote: »

I wasn't basing it on one incident, I was using it as an example. And it's an example far more relevant to the conversation considering how much Zebo has improved as a player since that match

And North is certainly not invaluable to a defensive line, he's simply not a brilliant defender by any means, and neither is Zebo. But Zebo's positional play in a back three unit and his ability under a high ball edge him in defense for me

My original point btw, for anyone wondering, had nothing to do with Zebo, I was highlighting that North hasn't really been tested in defense on this tour and it's something the Australians will try to do ala Cuthbert vs the Reds

Can I have some other examples of North missing such tackles then considering it appears to be the fulcrum of your argument?

North has been tested in defense at every level and there has been absolutely zero problems. He is streets ahead of Zebo in defense and attack. One player is world class and the other is a decent international. Thats the difference in my opinion.

Bogota

trouttrout wrote: »

Are there examples of Zebo defending like that since that game?

No one said Zebo was suspect defensively. Your the one making claims that North is. So how about you post up some other examples of North missing tackles?

.ak

Wallabies by more than 7

Bogota wrote: »

Of course you do. Zebo is better in the air and that's where it ends. North is much stronger defensively overall.

trouttrout wrote: »

Do you have to bring this **** into every conversation?


And no it's not where it ends, North is not a very good one on one tackler, did you see the Rabo semi where Tommy Bowe went passed him and North made little or no attempt to tackle


Anyway you seem to be resorting to petty little digs already so I'll leave it there

Don't be a dick is in the charter. This applies to both of you.

trouttrout

Bogota wrote: »

No one said Zebo was suspect defensively. Your the one making claims that North is. So how about you post up some other examples of North missing tackles?

Bowe turned him inside out with little or no space a few weeks ago, maybe that colored my opinion on his tackling a bit but it's certainly not something I remember standing out for with Wales. So ya, maybe I'm being harsh on him in that regard

However, my OP was brought about by remembering what the Reds did to Cuthbert a few weeks back. And I feel it's something they're going to try with both of the big wingers Saturday

Birroc

Lions by less than 7

Zebo is suspect defensively. But tomorrow it's not North you need to worry about it, its Cuthbert. He does not read a situation well and gets caught out from time to time. If I was an Aussie it would be Cuthbert I would run at. Or O'Driscoll as he tires.

.ak

Wallabies by more than 7

Do not argue with mod decisions on thread please.

Kanrith

Birroc wrote: »

Or O'Driscoll as he tires.

I wouldn't say O'Driscoll is a defensive weakness.

Birroc

Lions by less than 7

Kanrith wrote: »

I wouldn't say O'Driscoll is a defensive weakness.

I didn't say that. I said if I was an Aussie I would run at him after 60 mins to see if his 34 year old legs still have it. Especially if I was this flying AFL/League/Union winger Folau.

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Players like Lydiate and Warburton, whether playing openside or blindside off the back off the back of the scrum, are much more important in countering those open sides than having someone like Tipuric would be. It is precisely guys like Hooper and Gill that necessitate the Lions picking guys like Warburton and Lydiate.

Oh, a difference of opinion with irishbucsfan, wonders never cease

Until now, I can't say I have considered Lydiate a groundhog type of flanker, but maybe I need to pay more heed when he enters the fray tomorrow.

irishbucsfan

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Oh, a difference of opinion with irishbucsfan, wonders never cease

Until now, I can't say I have considered Lydiate a groundhog type of flanker, but maybe I need to pay more heed when he enters the fray tomorrow.

Defensively hes not very disruptive, but offensively he's much more talented and his work rate is ridiculous.

Kanrith

Sorry I misunderstood what you meant. :P

GiftofGab

Wallabies by more than 7

Congrats to Isreal Folau playing AFL, NFL and Union all at top level. A sensational athlete.

Podge_irl

NRL, not NFL!

I wouldn't worry too much about an frailties North shows for Scarlets, he's a completely different player for Wales (which is a whole other problem, but one best not got into now).

JRant

I think if we utilise the maul a bit more tomorrow it could pay dividends. It's been used sparingly so far but to good effect. If we can get the Wallabie pack going backwards it will completely open up the field for Sexton to exploit.

BoardsMember

Kanrith wrote: »

I wouldn't say O'Driscoll is a defensive weakness.

Not usually, or not through his career at all. But recently, in the last few months, he had definitely been caught out a few times, players have beat him on the outside. Hopefully we wont see it tomorrow, I kind of doubt we will, he's a big game player.

NoelJ

I'm guessing James O'Connor will be kicking for Australia?

Kiwi_knock

NoelJ wrote: »

I'm guessing James O'Connor will be kicking for Australia?

I presume so, his kicking stats are pretty similar to Lealiifano. Would be a lot of pressure on Lealiifano if you asked him to take the kicks on his debut.

matthew8

Dan Lydiate

I have to say Australia look to have achieved parity or near-parity in every position in the pack. POC is the only one I'd rate in the Lions pack as world class, and he's matched by Horwill. In the backs, Genia should have a significant advantage over Phillips, cancelled out by Sexton's advantage. The centres look evenly matched too, with all 4 in great form. Digby and North should be evenly matched, while Folau should have a significant advantage over Cuthbert. How Barnes performs at FB will be crucial.

We can't forget that the Lions will be playing in front of a hostile Queensland crowd. I think Australia could shade this one.

Tox56

matthew8 wrote: »

I have to say Australia look to have achieved parity or near-parity in every position in the pack. POC is the only one I'd rate in the Lions pack as world class, and he's matched by Horwill. In the backs, Genia should have a significant advantage over Phillips, cancelled out by Sexton's advantage. The centres look evenly matched too, with all 4 in great form. Digby and North should be evenly matched, while Folau should have a significant advantage over Cuthbert. How Barnes performs at FB will be crucial.

We can't forget that the Lions will be playing in front of a hostile Queensland crowd. I think Australia could shade this one.

On form Adam Jones is the best tighthead in the world so he would be world class in his position too. Halfpenny's kicking is surely going to be better than anything the Aussies can offer

JRant

matthew8 wrote: »

I have to say Australia look to have achieved parity or near-parity in every position in the pack. POC is the only one I'd rate in the Lions pack as world class, and he's matched by Horwill. In the backs, Genia should have a significant advantage over Phillips, cancelled out by Sexton's advantage. The centres look evenly matched too, with all 4 in great form. Digby and North should be evenly matched, while Folau should have a significant advantage over Cuthbert. How Barnes performs at FB will be crucial.

We can't forget that the Lions will be playing in front of a hostile Queensland crowd. I think Australia could shade this one.

I think with the amount of ex-pats living in Brisbane the crowd might be a bit more mixed than you think.

matthew8

Dan Lydiate

Tox56 wrote: »

On form Adam Jones is the best tighthead in the world so he would be world class in his position too. Halfpenny's kicking is surely going to be better than anything the Aussies can offer

HP should provide an edge, but AJ offers practically nothing around the park, and his scrummaging hasn't dominated since the Barbarians game either. I would rate Franks higher than AJ, and wouldn't rate AJ much higher than Alexander, especially playing with a NZ ref in the Southern Hemisphere.

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

I reckon Berrick Barnes might have the kicking duties.

Buer

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I reckon Berrick Barnes might have the kicking duties.

Half thinking the same. He's an older head and they've clearly picked elements of their back line with the idea of taking some pressure off JOC. Barnes has plenty of experience of playing in the Suncorp too given his few years there.

All of the Australian goal kickers are susceptible to some pretty bad days though at this level (with the exception of the untried CL).

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

Buer wrote: »

Half thinking the same. He's an older head and they've clearly picked elements of their back line with the idea of taking some pressure off JOC. Barnes has plenty of experience of playing in the Suncorp too given his few years there.

All of the Australian goal kickers are susceptible to some pretty bad days though at this level (with the exception of the untried CL).

Indeed. Even Barnes missed a sitter a few weeks ago to deny the Crusaders victory (or rather to win the Tahs the game).

But he doesn't generally get flustered, and with JOC playing at 10, I reckon it makes sense. Beale is not a bad goalkicker either, if he comes off the bench.

One thing is clear, and that is that if it comes down to a kicking duel, the Lions will win comfortably - it's their one absolutely clear advantage, hence why I could never understand HP's place being open to question. I don't think I've seen a better goalkicker, not recently anyway.

Volvic12

Dan Lydiate

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Indeed. Even Barnes missed a sitter a few weeks ago to deny the Crusaders victory (or rather to win the Tahs the game).

But he doesn't generally get flustered, and with JOC playing at 10, I reckon it makes sense. Beale is not a bad goalkicker either, if he comes off the bench.

One thing is clear, and that is that if it comes down to a kicking duel, the Lions will win comfortably - it's their one absolutely clear advantage, hence why I could never understand HP's place being open to question. I don't think I've seen a better goalkicker, not recently anyway.

I wouldn't call the kick Barnes missed a few weeks ago against the Crusaders a sitter. Very kickable yes but definetely not a sitter.

Rightwing

Wallabies by more than 7

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Indeed. Even Barnes missed a sitter a few weeks ago to deny the Crusaders victory (or rather to win the Tahs the game).

But he doesn't generally get flustered, and with JOC playing at 10, I reckon it makes sense. Beale is not a bad goalkicker either, if he comes off the bench.

One thing is clear, and that is that if it comes down to a kicking duel, the Lions will win comfortably - it's their one absolutely clear advantage, hence why I could never understand HP's place being open to question. I don't think I've seen a better goalkicker, not recently anyway.

I don't think it ever was, along with Sexton & POC he was probably first on the teamsheet.

captbarnacles

Lions by less than 7

Sam Warburton was first 1/2P second.

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

Volvic12 wrote: »

I wouldn't call the kick Barnes missed a few weeks ago against the Crusaders a sitter. Very kickable yes but definetely not a sitter.

Ok, maybe not a sitter in the sense of 20m out, right in front of the posts, but it was the kind of kick HP would nail blindfolded in his sleep. Maybe 5 to 10m to the left of the upright, and 30m out.

captbarnacles

Lions by less than 7

Wonder how much Warburton had to do with Lydiates selection. He has said how much he loves having his wingman on the pitch. Maybe Lydiates injury affected his form this year? Anyhow it is likely Gatland sounded out his Captain especially if it was as tight a call as it looked. It's also possbile Gatland likes how the combination of the two plays at the breakdown (experience together plus contrasting styles) - greater than the sum of their parts?