Anyone else not want children?

Duggy747

seamus wrote: »

This attitude has changed - a man playing with his kids is essential now, but at the same time the stereotype of the reluctant father and the broody mother persists, even though it's not nearly as widespread as people like to think. There are just as many reluctant mothers and broody fathers out there.

Adverts still convey the image that fathers don't exist ("Approved by Mums!!") or are complete idiots and don't know what to do with their spawn, like they're a mysterious piece of alien technology.

wolfpawnat

OldNotWIse wrote: »

An old friend of mine has a five year old and has just got married. The man she married is not the biological father of her child, although he is the father figure. Anyway, in conversation one day my Mother said something like, "oh well they'll have to get a bigger place now that they are married". I asked why and she said, " well they are married now so they'll probably have another one. Why else would they have got married??" I'm like, "er...because they love each other?" - the weird generation of the "marriage is for procreation" school of thought. :rolleyes:

Sure, when I said I was pregnant with no2, "Oh, you have to get married now" as though it was a legal requirement.

And as suspected, I had a girl and they told me, not made a statement, actually said as though I HAD to listen "Oh that's you done now." When I said we'll see. "No, you have both now, that'll do you." Fúck off, I can have as many or few kids as I like!

Addle wrote: »

I've had a strange reaction to Maura Derrane's pregnancy announcement today.
I'm disappointed by her!!!
Ridiculous, I know.
But I liked when she was getting publicity a few months ago about her interview about not having kids. It was like she gave women like me a voice!!!

You don't need a spokes person. But if you want one Oprah Most powerful childless woman in the world!

Addle

wolfpawnat wrote: »

You don't need a spokes person. But if you want one Oprah Most powerful childless woman in the world!

And unmarried!

wolfpawnat

Addle wrote: »

And unmarried!

Exactly. She doesn't need anyone for anything.

Seriously, I know you find yourself having to defend decisions constantly, like my partners sister. She got married at 47 and her mother expected her pregnant immediately. "You left it a bit late" I am about 90% sure she went through early menopause due to weight issues. There will not be babies, yet the onus on her is still to try now at 50!

ghogie91

Pretty sure my gf wants kids young at about 24/25 as she has said it numerpus times, that gives me 2/3 years to get the snip

wolfpawnat

ghogie91 wrote: »

Pretty sure my gf wants kids young at about 24/25 as she has said it numerpus times, that gives me 2/3 years to get the snip

Or you could tell her how you feel and see where you both stand.

seamus

Duggy747 wrote: »

Adverts still convey the image that fathers don't exist ("Approved by Mums!!") or are complete idiots and don't know what to do with their spawn, like they're a mysterious piece of alien technology.

Don't get me started on the P&G marketing scumbags. "Mums are awesome! Dads are stupid and violent! Grannies are old and decrepid!"

Tombo2001

Sweaty Betty wrote: »

That attitude annoys me, it's so condescending. A person can decide in their 20s that they don't want kids and never change their mind.

Have to laugh at this......

A person can decide in their 20s whatever the hell they want.

Say a couple who dont want to have kids......they dont ultimately make that decision until just before the female partner becomes biologically too old.

A view might be formed when the person is in their 20s. The decision is ultimately made when the woman is in her late 30s or early 40s.

Fighting Irish

SV wrote: »

I think not wanting children in any shape or form is a bit of an evolutionary stepback tbh.

Or maybe some people realise they've only one life and they might want to actually live it

Tombo2001

seamus wrote: »

Don't get me started on the P&G marketing scumbags. "Mums are awesome! Dads are stupid and violent! Grannies are old and decrepid!"

Take a look at the gender balance on the boards.ie parenting forum......P&G have it spot on in marketing to mums.....as for your comments on dads, I;ve yet to come across that in any ad literature.

fatknacker

cocker5 wrote: »

Yes as opposed... as in many societies around the world they have children yes, but not lots of them like we do here....

You said you don't think most women want children though. I can't see how anyone would think that, as most women (and men) do have children all over the world and not always by accident neither.

Tombo2001

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Or maybe some people realise they've only one life and they might want to actually live it

Oh let me guess......by having a 'career'?

Thats just a cliche.....you've only one life, so why not live it?

What does that mean....

Live life to the fullest every day.....

Easily said, but at the same time completely meaningless.......how exactly do you live your life to the fullest......doing a bungee jump? trekking around Machu Pichu? selling buns at a farmers market?

There is no formula for 'living your life to the fullest', some people have extraordinary lives but more often than not good luck plays a huge part in it. History tells us that having children is one of the most fulfilling things anyone can do.

kunst nugget

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Take a look at the gender balance on the boards.ie parenting forum......P&G have it spot on.

Because not many men contribute to the forum, that makes them violent and stupid?

I've seen people giving out that the 'Moms. You're Doing Great' Cow & Gate Ad is sexist but considering it's about convincing people to give up breastfeeding and go onto follow on milk, I can't see the issue with it.

On the other hand, there was a big controversy in America over a Huggies Ad showing Dads as complete morons which had people up in arms so I think the tide is turning in terms of lazy stereotyping like that.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/03/huggies-pulls-ads-after-dads-insulted/

Mind you, anytime I see the Peppa Pig, the portrayal of the Dad I find really annoying.

Tbf though, I don't think this has any effect on why people do or don't have children.

ghogie91

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Or you could tell her how you feel and see where you both stand.

Oh I did of course bit the conversation ends up in one wanting kids and the other doesnt

So stalemate haha

kunst nugget

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Oh let me guess......by having a 'career'?

Thats just a cliche.....you've only one life, so why not live it?

What does that mean....

Live life to the fullest every day.....

Easily said, but at the same time completely meaningless.......how exactly do you live your life to the fullest......doing a bungee jump? trekking around Machu Pichu? selling buns at a farmers market?

There is no formula for 'living your life to the fullest', some people have extraordinary lives but more often than not good luck plays a huge part in it. History tells us that having children is one of the most fulfilling things anyone can do.

How extraordinarily condescending. A person has every right to say they don't ever want kids when their twenties or thirties and they have every right to change their mind if they want to as well. It's their journey through life, not yours so don't ever assume that you know better than them what their feelings are or what they want to do with their life.

wolfpawnat

ghogie91 wrote: »

Oh I did of course bit the conversation ends up in one wanting kids and the other doesnt

So stalemate haha

This won't end well.

seamus

Tombo2001 wrote: »

as for your comments on dads, I;ve yet to come across that in any ad literature.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/oct/19/johnsons-baby-advert-mark-jones

A clip of a father with the words, "Gentleness is awakened" underneath him. Clearly implying that men are nothing but loud and violent until a child comes along to "awaken their gentleness".

Of course, then you also have a clip of a grandmother with, "The will to live longer" as her caption. Nice. "Hey Granny! No need to drink yourself into an early grave now that you have something to live for!"

kunst nugget

ghogie91 wrote: »

Oh I did of course bit the conversation ends up in one wanting kids and the other doesnt

So stalemate haha

Honestly, if it is truly a deal breaker for you that you don't want kids and she does, I think the fairest thing to do is to let her go. It's not going to ever be a good relationship if one of you resents the other for the choices that they feel have been inflicted on them.

Shenshen

Tombo2001 wrote: »

There is no formula for 'living your life to the fullest', some people have extraordinary lives but more often than not good luck plays a huge part in it. History tells us that having children is one of the most fulfilling things anyone can do.

And research tells us something completely different :

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/13/childless-couples-happier

seamus

Shenshen wrote: »

And research tells us something completely different :

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/13/childless-couples-happier

Aha, you need to be careful of drawing conclusions from raw figures though.

That is, concluding that children == misery, would be flawed. There are similar statistics which show that married couples are less likely to split up than cohabiting couples.
Lots of people try to use this to argue that marriage == better. But, again, that's a conclusion which presupposes other interlinking factors.

In the above research, it has to be remembered that childlessness is more often a choice than having children. That is, lots of people have children by accident, who shouldn't have children together at all. That automatically tips the balance.
Granted their are infertile couples who are "accidentally" childless, but the number is far smaller.

I'd love to see the actual study rather than flawed interpretations of the results from media outlets.

Shenshen

seamus wrote: »

Aha, you need to be careful of drawing conclusions from raw figures though.

That is, concluding that children == misery, would be flawed. There are similar statistics which show that married couples are less likely to split up than cohabiting couples.
Lots of people try to use this to argue that marriage == better. But, again, that's a conclusion which presupposes other interlinking factors.

In the above research, it has to be remembered that childlessness is more often a choice than having children. That is, lots of people have children by accident, who shouldn't have children together at all. That automatically tips the balance.
Granted their are infertile couples who are "accidentally" childless, but the number is far smaller.

I'd love to see the actual study rather than flawed interpretations of the results from media outlets.

Well, I don't have the study to hand, I'm sorry. And I certainly wasn't going to argue that because statistically, childless couples are happier than those with children, that must mean that children mean misery.

I simply want to point out that the statement "History tells us that having children is one of the most fulfilling things anyone can do" is not supported by evidence.

candy-gal1

Tbh Im still really on the 50/50 type thing as I dont hate kids and can sometimes really like thinking about what itd be like to have one someday but I dont know whether Id truly want to give up my freedom/cash/sexlife etc for one - not as of yet anyway or at least not till Ive got a good job, savings in the bank and my own place

Up till I met the bf over a year and a half ago my answer to having kids was always "fcuk no" but I dont know how or why but hes changed that in me a lot - hes the first and only person I could see having kids with If I did, would just feel right

Only 27 though, so plenty of time for that if he wanted it too obviously!

KTRIC

To be honest I'm not pushed either way. I'm fairly certain I don't want kids at the moment and could happily live without them.

stoeger

I have two if anyone wants one

cocker5

stoeger wrote: »

I have two if anyone wants one

"free to a good home only".....

Ill take one... the better behaved one....









only messing

stoeger

stoeger wrote: »

I have two if anyone wants one

How much do you want for it?

Do you have one in blonde?

(Simpsons reference )

OldNotWIse

I want a baby but I dont want a child. How does that work? When I see a baby I can actually feel my biological clock clanging and jumping around and I get all panicky about my decreasing egg reserve, but when I see noisy kids screaming in supermarkets I shudder. Is this normal? Because babies have a tendancy to turn into kids... Do you just love your baby and then by extensio love your bratty child because it used to be your baby? Is that how nature works?

patmac

We are a childless couple married 19 years and the missus never wanted kids, I'm all my nieces and nephews favourite uncle and sometimes I regret not having a little sprog to play football with etc, but that usually passes as I head off on my 3rd holiday of that year. We have a couple of rescued dogs and you know what they say 'children are only substitutes for people who can't have dogs'! It's one of the bigger decisions of your life, so both people need to be behind it and when you take the necessary steps have no regrets and enjoy all that extra money you will have!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

but marriage is for procreation...
marrying for love is a very modern idea (and even then only in some parts of the world) and there's no guarantees it's going to stick around

They used to marry lads together in the church in the middle ages or before that
Prof. John Boswell3, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).
http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/whensamesexmarriagewasachristianrite.html

wolfpawnat

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I want a baby but I dont want a child. How does that work? When I see a baby I can actually feel my biological clock clanging and jumping around and I get all panicky about my decreasing egg reserve, but when I see noisy kids screaming in supermarkets I shudder. Is this normal? Because babies have a tendancy to turn into kids... Do you just love your baby and then by extensio love your bratty child because it used to be your baby? Is that how nature works?

Even as a parent you don't want the bratty child in the supermarket. Sadly to achieve a good child, you have to train out the brattiness. Like with dogs, if you are consistent, that phase leaves in a few weeks.

I get the whole biological clock thing, but kids are one of the few things in this world you can NEVER give back.