Suicide and men.

Frito

Deleted User wrote: »

what exactly is a "primary care" group?

It's a patient cohort that is being treated within primary care ie GP.

MaxWig

Blisterman wrote: »

I've known a few people close to me who've suffered from depression, and have always felt at a loss of what I can do to help them beyond recommending they seek medical help, and saying that I'm always there for them if they need to talk. They rarely take me up on the latter, and I'm wary of bringing it up unprompted.

I'm genuinely interested in doing whatever I can to help. Does anyone have any advice on how I can do so?

Not sure you can do much more than that.

There's always helping out at the level of organisation etc.

But on a personal level, sounds like you're doing all that's possible

clairefontaine

Blisterman wrote: »

I've known a few people close to me who've suffered from depression, and have always felt at a loss of what I can do to help them beyond recommending they seek medical help, and saying that I'm always there for them if they need to talk. They rarely take me up on the latter, and I'm wary of bringing it up unprompted.

I'm genuinely interested in doing whatever I can to help. Does anyone have any advice on how I can do so?

When you spend time with them, tell them how much you enjoyed that time with them.

Frito

Frito wrote: »

It's a patient cohort that is being treated within primary care ie GP.

Then I do not see how the two statistics contradict. Can anyone else?

Saying 1 in a million in the general population will kill themselves - but that 10 in 100000 of a specific sub group would - is not a contradiction as far as I can see.

The statistic 1-2 in a million though does appear to be in error - or at least requires context.

That would seem to predict that no more than 10 people would die from this in Ireland per year for example. Clearly the actual numbers are higher than that. Perhaps the stat is 1-2 / million per day? Week? Month? Who knows. On the face of it it certainly appears vague.

Recidivist

Just a personal perspective on the "cowards way out"

My younger brother took his own life four and a half years ago. Whilst trying to make sense of his actions and chasing the why of it all, it became apparent he was did not want to become a burden on the rest of the family.

I suspect each suicide and it's motives are as individual as the people involved.

Until you are utterly alone on a bridge in the middle of your darkest night you will not understand.

Easy catchphrases demean the loved ones we've lost and do nothing to help those currently drowning in their private hells.

Pawwed Rig

Recidivist wrote: »

Just a personal perspective on the "cowards way out"

I don't think too many people actually believe that tbh. The thread was kind of derailed early on by one posters uninformed opinion. The fact that he has not been on to defend his assertion other to say it was personal experience of an individual case speaks volumes.
Each suicide is an absolute tragedy made worse for those left behind by the lack of understanding of why the person went through with it and also a lack of understanding of any underlying medical condition.

iptba

I found this part of the article the OP posted interesting:

Figures provided by the National Office of Suicide Prevention give a clear picture as to the trends in recent years. They show suicide continues to be a particular issue amongst males, and more so in young males. Official figures for the past 30 years (1980-2009) show little change in female suicide rates (fluctuating between around 4 and 5 in every 100,000) while males have increased from 8.4 to 20.0 per 100,000, with a peak of 23.5 in 1998. More recent figures have yet to be confirmed, but indicate this is unchanged.

Blisterman

I know a common explanation for why male suicide rates are higher than women's is because men are more likely to be closed off about their feelings, whereas women are more likely to be open and seek help.

But surely if that were the case, then suicide rates would have dropped over the past few decades as men generally have become more open than a generation ago.

Randy Shafter

Blisterman wrote: »

But surely if that were the case, then suicide rates would have dropped over the past few decades as men generally have become more open than a generation ago.

While i agree Blisterman that men are starting to become more open, I personally think that there is still a lot of stigma attached to men and talking about depression, mental health aspects of their lives. Some men may feel like their masculinity is taking a hit if they open up about certain issues and therefore bottle them up until it's unfortunately too late.

iptba

Blisterman wrote: »

I know a common explanation for why male suicide rates are higher than women's is because men are more likely to be closed off about their feelings, whereas women are more likely to be open and seek help.

But surely if that were the case, then suicide rates would have dropped over the past few decades as men generally have become more open than a generation ago.

And similarly, it is a lot easier now to come out as gay than it was in 1980.*

*That's not to say it isn't a factor in some suicides (I have no idea on what percentages of suicide it might be involved in, to be honest).

April O Neill

Blisterman wrote: »

I know a common explanation for why male suicide rates are higher than women's is because men are more likely to be closed off about their feelings, whereas women are more likely to be open and seek help.

But surely if that were the case, then suicide rates would have dropped over the past few decades as men generally have become more open than a generation ago.

I personally don't think it's the only reason though, just a factor.

As I said in a previous post in this thread, I suspect that the difference in testosterone levels in males and females may also be a factor.

clairefontaine

April O Neill wrote: »

I personally don't think it's the only reason though, just a factor.

As I said in a previous post in this thread, I suspect that the difference in testosterone levels in males and females may also be a factor.

The attempts are similar numbers but men are more successful because of the methods they use.

Women don't want to be defaced so the OD, but end up rescued. When men do it, they tend to make sure they do it.

Mindful

Typically, men choose more violent methods, which consequently are more often successfull than less violent means.

Mindful

Who said fewer than 2 people in a million will "kill themselves"?

Here's a table of stats from the World Health Organisation on suicide rates per 100,000 people, per country. And bear in mind that however large these numbers may seem, they are not the whole story, as so many suicides still go unreported as such.

http://http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/

What should be of concern too is that in every country on the planet, with the exeption of China, men are more likely to die by suicide than women.

BobTheNihilist

OP here. Im still knockin around yeah. Glad to see theres a good discussion on this, it needs to be addressed.

Pawwed Rig

I think it is worth mentioning that the exposure suicide is getting recently is un-paralleled in my memory. Every day there is discussion about the risk to suicide on one or other news programme.
Unfortunately all the focus is on the extremely rare situation where a woman may be at risk of suicide during a pregnancy (1 pregnancy in 500,000 according to the Master of the Rotunda Hospital).
I think it is a good example of the lack of value for men in our society who comprise the majority of suicide victims

pastorbarrett

Perhaps I'm straying into the banal and clichéd, but I think the following is really important...

Of course the statutory and voluntary services 'against suicide'/ all those involved in mental health etc, need to be applauded and commended for their efforts. And yes, we can all finger-point obvious culprits like recession, men's apparent displacement in society, and so on. But on a personal level, what we can all proactively do is be mindful of those closet to us - our Dad's, uncle's, cousin's, brother's, friend's, colleague's etc. If you at all can, be there for them.

Sometimes a good turn, a friendly chat or even just listening to someone can mean the world to those who are down and hopeless. I know this for fact, as I suspect many of us do. It's not a solution or cure, nor is it always possible, but I think it's all to easy to forget the impact we can have on those around us.

Mindful

meridiangroup wrote: »

Perhaps I'm straying into the banal and clichéd, but I think the following is really important...

Of course the statutory and voluntary services 'against suicide'/ all those involved in mental health etc, need to be applauded and commended for their efforts. And yes, we can all finger-point obvious culprits like recession, men's apparent displacement in society, and so on. But on a personal level, what we can all proactively do is be mindful of those closet to us - our Dad's, uncle's, cousin's, brother's, friend's, colleague's etc. If you at all can, be there for them.

Sometimes a good turn, a friendly chat or even just listening to someone can mean the world to those who are down and hopeless. I know this for fact, as I suspect many of us do. It's not a solution or cure, nor is it always possible, but I think it's all to easy to forget the impact we can have on those around us.

Nicely put and well said

Pawwed Rig

Shocking tragic story in the Independent today

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-42-dies-after-setting-himself-alight-in-meath-29392255.html

BerryBlue

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Shocking tragic story in the Independent today

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-42-dies-after-setting-himself-alight-in-meath-29392255.html

May his poor tormented soul rest in peace.

amber07

BobTheNihilist wrote: »

SUICIDE IS A word with which in today’s Ireland we are all too familiar. There can be few people who don’t know, either directly or indirectly, someone who has taken their own life in recent years, and we are frequently reminded of its presence via the media. As tragic as this is in all cases, it is especially so when it concerns a young person, and unfortunately Ireland appears affected more than most countries in Europe.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/mens-health-suicide-ireland-948495-Jun2013/

I'm gonna come right out and say it - i have attempted suicide several times in the past. I had a chance to do it with a gun once, a .22 rifle, but I couldnt go thru with it for some reason. Maybe I should have.

How many more men in this country do we have to bury before there time?

We men are ****e at talking about feelings with each other or even or loved ones, if we have any. Other guys thing youre bent or a wuss or a pussy or something. Instead were recession casualties - we have no jobs and no future so we spiral into despair.



I found the Samartians helpful in the past. They're ok and it;s good to have an actual person on the end of a phone.
Im not gonna tell anyone what to do with there life. But I guarantee you there are men out there who feel like ending it all the time..Ive been one of those men in the past and for all I know will be again in the future.
I just feel overwhelmed sometimes.

my heart goes out to you,im a woman and fighting depression every day,msg me anytime and ill be there for you. i have other posts on here thatl give you an idea of my mindset etc.not enough people understand depression and suicidal feelings. i know some lovely people that have committed suicide,no one understands and to make it worse someone will give a thick answer or remark that can make a person 10 times worse. im here for you and ill answer whenever i can.

seachto7

Went to talk to someone in January after things came to a head before Christmas. When I think back of last year and the end of last year, I now feel like a totally different person. It all came down to going to talk to someone.
I've gone through the "hmmm, I wonder if I just drove the car into the wall" etc. I'd like to think that the end of 2012, start of 2013 was the turning point. Tis been a long time coming...

The_Kew_Tour

Im not sure Mods will allow this so if want take it down thats ok.

I basically suffered from depression back in 2011. Was extremely close to going the full way.

Anyway if there is somebody in Cork area that may feel like talking to someone face to face I would have no problem in doing so.

Once MOds approve anybody who may feel like talking can PM me.

downonthefarm

seachto7 wrote: »

Went to talk to someone in January after things came to a head before Christmas. When I think back of last year and the end of last year, I now feel like a totally different person. It all came down to going to talk to someone.
I've gone through the "hmmm, I wonder if I just drove the car into the wall" etc. I'd like to think that the end of 2012, start of 2013 was the turning point. Tis been a long time coming...

glad you are feeling better,i used to be driving home some nights and think,i will just let go of the wheel and it will all be fixed

Kev.OC

seachto7 wrote: »

Went to talk to someone in January after things came to a head before Christmas. When I think back of last year and the end of last year, I now feel like a totally different person. It all came down to going to talk to someone.
I've gone through the "hmmm, I wonder if I just drove the car into the wall" etc. I'd like to think that the end of 2012, start of 2013 was the turning point. Tis been a long time coming...

downonthefarm wrote: »

glad you are feeling better,i used to be driving home some nights and think,i will just let go of the wheel and it will all be fixed

I know it's only anecdotal evidence, but I find it interesting how prominent that stereotype is. Personally I had a big road sign picked out on my route home from college, with one of those "3" shaped safety rails starting just before it. Click of a button (seat-belt), flick of the wrist, and if I did it just right I was hitting that sign roof first.

I was too hard on myself though. Every single one of my friends could come to me with any problem in the world and I'd do whatever I could to help them out. But not me. I couldn't do that. I had to bottle everything up. I thought it would be courageous for my friends to be able to talk about such things, but it would be a cowardly show of weakness for me to do the same. I was constantly applying these ridiculous double standards to myself.

The day I let someone in, it honestly felt like the world had been taken off my shoulders. I don't think I've ever felt so much relief in my life. Since then I still get a bit down occasionally, but no where near as low. I've stopped talking myself down too, which helps immensely. If you start thinking negatively about yourself, stop. Switch the subject straightaway. Trust me, I've beaten myself up enough over the years. I've been more harsh on myself than anyone else could have possibly been. It gets you nowhere.

In all the years I've known my few best friends, I don't think I've ever heard mention of a feeling that wasn't boredom, hunger or tiredness, but I've come to realise that just because the lads don't talk about feelings, doesn't mean they can't. To anyone who is suffering with depression, just talk to someone. Let someone in. You might not believe it at first, but you have friends who care about you that would gladly help you shoulder the weight to save you from bearing it alone.

py2006

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

When somebody is cowardly or selfish the act they carry out is without thought and/or without reason.

Somebody so deep in the depths of depression for sometimes years before things get so low that the only relief is thoughts of ending things is not a cowardly person.

amber07

py2006 wrote: »

When somebody is cowardly or selfish the act they carry out is without thought and/or without reason. how dare you say that,im tortured all my life with depression and am suicidal a lot of the time,the only thing stopping me is my kids,people dont do it lightly,there comes a time when they cant hold it together anymore. clearly anyone that dont have a deppressive mind dont understand,i hope it never happens to you as youl know then wheather theese people are cowards or not.

Somebody so deep in the depths of depression for sometimes years before things get so low that the only relief is thoughts of ending things is not a cowardly person.

agree totally

limklad

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

Nothing in life is that bad, that you need to end life, there's so many adventurers that have yet to be bad.

Why kill yourself over work , a girl , a debt etc.

Why not just buy a motorbike and back pack your way through Russia, Asia etc

In a few weeks all your problems wil feel a million life times ago.

Until you walk in the shoes in what those people go through you will never attempt to understand a little bit of what they go through.
There are many different reasons why people kill themselves.

I used to know of a young man , he was a brother of a class mate who was falsely accused of rape, he wanted to become a guard all of his life from a very young age. It was his dream and career choice of making it to become one. At 5 years of age, He want to be that good guy and catch robbers. After he finished his leaving Cert exams he went out with his friends had some drinks and came home alone. Next morning, in a early morning raid, the guards arrived into his home to bring him to the station for questioning for rape. He was handcuff on his own bed while suffering from a hangover. One girl from his class had a grudge against him accused him of rapping her because he earlier during the year on several occasions refuse to ask her and he said no to her to go to the debs as a couple. He had a heavy deep love crush on his neighbor who he invited and she accepted. He was looking forwards to the debs. The debs was on the next night. He told the guards what he did the previous night , the route he walked and his ambitions to become a guard. He did not remember anyone who saw him that night. He was told by one guard that he can forget about becoming a guard now not with the record of been accused of rape. That was his biggest ambition in tatters, All his work over the years gone in smoke before his eyes. After he got home his neighbor refused to go to the debs with him because she wrongly believe that he rape the other girl who she did not know personally. He phone around and others refuse to talk to him and they kept hanging up. His so call friends abandon him at his time of need. His parents were not supportive of him and refuse to believe him. He saw no way out for himself. His parent saying to him "What will you do now? How will you get a Job now with a rape record? Look what drink did to you , you rape someone because of drink" His parents were anti drink and blame drink for society problems. He did himself in that night.
Next morning a neighbor heard about the rape claims and he immediately call over the guards to make a statement that he saw him walking home that night and earlier before as he was driving through the town (at the other side of town) he saw her laughing with her friends and when he got home and said he saw the lad walking with a drunken stagger and entering his home gate at the time the allege rape occurred over 15 mins walk from where she claims whee the rare took place. He knew the boy since he was small and he also knew the girl through his wife side of the family in which she was a distant relation and knew of her poor reputation of telling lies. At that moment the phone rang in the garda station about the suicide. The officer told the neighbor that his testimony is no longer required in court as the boy kill himself. Later we found out the real reason why she accused him of rape. She did not want him going to the debs with the girl he was in love with. She was then shunned by the community so much that when she eventually left for college and she rarely came back to see even her family. It was her selfishness that spark the event that help to destroy another person life and also that left so many people lives in shatters with the lost and what they had done.

I also knew another lad who tried to kill himself over another girl who dumped in in an most embarrassment public humiliation where she dump him in front of others for a rich guy who could spend money on her. He was madly in love with her and she led him on for over a year. When she got her new guy and publicly in collage and met her now very soon to be her ex boyfriend to dump him there and then. She did in a way to make humiliating fun of him openly and then berate him and with help of her friends heckling the so call fun out of him and others standing by watching and laughing at him. He grew up on a strict emotionally cold family. He did not have any close friends to help shoulder the pain he did not understand. His family unofficial motto was "you get what you deserve". It was his cousin who save him by shear luck calling over looking for help on another matter.

When I was a young, both of my parent verbally and emotionally abused me. They cut off any friends I had when I was younger. They stop me from playing sports despite letting other family members play. I grew up in a large family where emotional and verbal abuse was the norm and my mother targeted me when she had enough of targeting my father. My family made me feel useless and belittle any chores I did and made me feel like I was a burden on them, they did over very long periods of time and nothing was temporary about it. I could tell you loads of detail stories about the abuses where the demean and insulted me even publicly. My mother was the worst in the family for delivering the abuse. She as far as she is concern, "she is always right" and that "She can do no wrong". She had a temper that would rival any abusive man enough to put those abusive men to shame. My so call father only wanted to be left in peace and did not want any hassle so he got angry when the mother was upset by things she made up and I had to handle his abuse as well as hers.

As a young child who I was still depended and legal slaved to my parents until I was 18. I could never get a bike to Russia even if I wanted to. Russia or Soviet Union in it breakup would have been a better place to live than my home in the 80/90's.
I never knew as a child what true parental unconditional love on what it was meant to be, as my motherly love was very conditional love and was used as an emotional and verbal weapon against me destroying any tiny bit of confidence and mental well being and self love into smithereens. When I got my independence, I kick my abusive "Can never do anything wrong" parents and those who supported them out of my life and I now freely able to "rightly or wrongly" express myself without having to abuse others like my parents. I only received and learn what unconditional love is from grandparents and uncles and some aunts. It was my grandparents on both side who save my life and I will always be grateful to them for been there and living nearby. I was luck to have them. It was them who help me and build up my emotional and mental health until I could stand for myself.

So ted1 unless you experience some little bit I assume you do not want to empathize or understand as you words express in your inexperience emotional views. If I were you, I stay the hell away from people who are depress because a word from you could trigger them from doing something you believe to be selfish.

seachto7

I can honestly say I've never been even close to doing it, but I can understand why people would do it. That in itself is thinking about it I suppose.
But I often think out the consequences of doing it, think of the funeral, my friends and family, the things I would miss out on, and being related to someone who did take their own life, I think of the waste. At the time, I can see why they did do it, but in hindsight, it was a small thing in the grand journey of life. It obviously mattered a great deal to them at the time.

I just think there is too much to live for.

Remember that Suncreen song? Well, there was a song by a guy called Bobby Gaylor called Suicide (the song). I urge you to listen to it. It comes across as humorous, but it is not.

Galwayguy35

I remember a first cousin of my father committed suicide about 20 years ago, had their family reared and everything so no reason for it at all.

A neighbour went to the funeral and then comitted suicide himself afterwards, very hard to know what is going on in peoples minds.

Back then it was brushed under the carpet and my father would never speak about it, thankfully things are more open these days.

Ruudi_Mentari

seachto7 wrote: »

I can honestly say I've never been even close to doing it, but I can understand why people would do it. That in itself is thinking about it I suppose.
But I often think out the consequences of doing it, think of the funeral, my friends and family, the things I would miss out on, and being related to someone who did take their own life, I think of the waste. At the time, I can see why they did do it, but in hindsight, it was a small thing in the grand journey of life. It obviously mattered a great deal to them at the time.

I just think there is too much to live for.

So what is it an honourable thing, too much pride/expectation maybe. Else some great shame, some burden because these are the only things for which which I can put it to. And the latter is sadly what wins out in people's minds and I've certainly never contemplate it; miserable and heated some moments I've had so there must be some deep... pride or burden. Or mental illness, I guess. Rooted in mind numbing depression of which I had my share, battled and learned to deal with eventually as I fully and blindly expect people to do.

And there is too much to live for, even as a spectator if people feel they are going to be denied because a persons experience in life should'nt so much about a person, but this place and to just embrace our time in it and from this perspective I don't know how a person could do that to a place anyhow. And I don't care, if its the crummiest boiler room or what it still deserves to be graced as opposed to disgraced

jank

Suicide is not just an Irish phenomenon. It's occurs across all of western society, especially in places like Sweden, Japan, Korea. Irish people are generally a happy bunch but there will always be some who will be depressed. I think it's part biology, part evolution, part western society and part nihilism. Nobody knows what someone else is thinking or feeling. People expect to be happy all the time now, like the Brady bunch or something. It wasnt like that in the past, life was hard back then, Life is not like that now but you only get one shot at it, and if done right can be enough. It's hard to say if its becoming worse now or that its just being reported more. One thing I know though is that your environment is a massive play on it. Anyone who has travelled to poor countries will notice that the people although dirt poor are generally very very happy. It kinds of put things in perspective for us. The case of what you didn't you don't miss. There is too much pressure on people to be this or that or to BE happy. We try and fill our lives with stuff that doesn't mean a thing. Most people have relationships now through Facebook rather than face to face or even via a telephone call. The Internet can be a black hole for many. In essence modern society is a lot easier for us physically, mentally it's a lot tougher. I think we threw out the baby with the bath water regards this.

Daveysil15

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

Nothing in life is that bad, that you need to end life, there's so many adventurers that have yet to be bad.

Why kill yourself over work , a girl , a debt etc.

Why not just buy a motorbike and back pack your way through Russia, Asia etc

In a few weeks all your problems wil feel a million life times ago.

I doubt too many people will be back packing if they're in debt.

Vision of Disorder

I literally only found this thread and registered on boards today. I've come home early from work now which is something I've never done before. I had a suicide attempt almost 14 months ago. I started therapy which did help and I moved from a city to a small, remote town in April in an attempt to reinvigorate my life somewhat and, if I'm honest, to have more time and space to be myself by myself. I quit therapy around the same time. And it all seemed to work for a while. Of late though I find myself back in a place more akin to the hell that I dwelt in last summer. I wouldn't say I'm suicidal now but it is fair to say that I would like to die.

I can't apologise to the likes of Ted for feeling this way and, equally, I can see no reason why I should feel obliged to continue my existence for the sake of my parents, my siblings, my friends or even the girl that I have this weird not-quite-a-relationship thing going on with. I don't doubt that my suicide would hurt all of those people greatly but, equally, it makes no sense to me that I should be expected to persevere with an existence that does so little for me to bring a modicum of joy to the lives of others.

It's not that I'm constantly, utterly, miserably broken all the time. I am reasonably successful in my chosen field, have plenty of close friends, I'm well able to talk about this (and anything else) with people, I have many interests (including goalkeeping and bass guitar which made carving my left palm up with a kitchen knife at a particularly low point last September particularly clever). I've got a decent life by any standard and yet I feel empty and peed off on the best days and utterly, utterly futile, worthless and pointless on the worst.

I'm not sure quite what I hope to achieve with this post. You want more anecdotes? Telling my parents I'd attempted suicide was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. My parents are divorced too so I had to do it twice. They had absolutely no idea (they reacted better than I expected to be fair, far more so in the case of my father). Since I 'recovered' I've been wheeled out a couple of times to talk to people who are feeling depressed and I feel it's helped them and, by extension, helped me.

Finally, and touching on a point I saw above, one of the most powerful things I experienced last year was the willingness of people to step up and help out. Just by being there and listening to me. I felt utterly unworthy of such support at the time even though I was constantly reminded that I had accrued such behaviour through my own actions over time. As a result some friends have become more important to me, some acquaintances have become friends and, yes, conversely, some friends have backed away from me somewhat .

I will have to live with this for the rest of my life (however long or short a time that is! :P)

Thanks for reading, as I said, this is just random musings!

dereks

I lost a great friend to suicide at the weekend.

He was and still is a great guy. He suffered from depression for a long time and kept trying to fight it in the end.

Unfortunately he could see no way out. I hope he has found some form of peace now.

Reading through the pages and peoples thoughts is helping with the grief.

I miss him very much.

Vision of Disorder

dereks wrote: »

I lost a great friend to suicide at the weekend.

He was and still is a great guy. He suffered from depression for a long time and kept trying to fight it in the end.

Unfortunately he could see no way out. I hope he has found some form of peace now.

Reading through the pages and peoples thoughts is helping with the grief.

I miss him very much.

My deepest sympathies dereks. Remember him for all the great moments he brought to your life and celebrate those times you were fortunate enough to share with him.

dereks

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

My deepest sympathies dereks. Remember him for all the great moments he brought to your life and celebrate those times you were fortunate enough to share with him.

Thanks for your kind words.

Your post above was very helpfull and i hope you are doing okay.

Gael23

I'm someone fortunate enough to not have lost a close family member or friend to suicide.
I have been at funerals of men that have died by suicide quite a few times over the years. It's not untrue to look at the family and say to yourself why did he/she do this and ruin their parents lives in the process as they are the ones who will have to go through the rest of their lives with that guilt on their shoulders.
Someone that is suicidal thinks that they are a burden and that their family and friends are better off without them and their problems, but as we all know that couldn't be further from the truth.

Vision of Disorder

dereks wrote: »

Thanks for your kind words.

Your post above was very helpfull and i hope you are doing okay.

Good days and bad days.More good than bad at the moment thankfully. It's a battle that never ends though and is never likely to. No matter how well things may be going, no matter how well I might be feeling, every morning there's the potential for me to awake feeling wholly wretched about more or less everything.

I get moments when I am so glad I am still here (kissing an awesome lass I only met after all this happened, the excitement of a 5 year old kid whose life I play a major role in on Christmas eve, a late winner for my League of Ireland team after being two down... actually that was the same night as the kiss now that I think of it). However I also have days when I wish with all my heart that I had gone through with it and am furious with myself for not seeing it through.

It's a battle. A daily battle and sometimes one of minutes. But as long as I'm willing to keep fighting it's worth fighting for I suppose.

Vision of Disorder

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I literally only found this thread and registered on boards today.

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

It's a battle. A daily battle and sometimes one of minutes. But as long as I'm willing to keep fighting it's worth fighting for I suppose.

VoD, there's a pretty amazing thread you might want to have a read of here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75955119

Keep fighting, try to remember there will be days ... whole days! ... that are worth fighting for.

dereks

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

Good days and bad days.More good than bad at the moment thankfully. It's a battle that never ends though and is never likely to. No matter how well things may be going, no matter how well I might be feeling, every morning there's the potential for me to awake feeling wholly wretched about more or less everything.

I get moments when I am so glad I am still here (kissing an awesome lass I only met after all this happened, the excitement of a 5 year old kid whose life I play a major role in on Christmas eve, a late winner for my League of Ireland team after being two down... actually that was the same night as the kiss now that I think of it). However I also have days when I wish with all my heart that I had gone through with it and am furious with myself for not seeing it through.

It's a battle. A daily battle and sometimes one of minutes. But as long as I'm willing to keep fighting it's worth fighting for I suppose.

Your story sounds very similar to that of my friend. I have nothing but admiration for people who suffer from depression and find the will to keep fighting it. They are an inspiration to others.

I know from my friend how difficult he found it. I hope he's in a better place now.

I also hope you'll always have more good days then bad and can keep on fighting.

limklad

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

..I think once people realise somebody has mental issues they abandon them!

I agree with you. They (the one who abandon/ridicule those who need help) are the true cowards.

recourse

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

Good days and bad days.More good than bad at the moment thankfully. It's a battle that never ends though and is never likely to. No matter how well things may be going, no matter how well I might be feeling, every morning there's the potential for me to awake feeling wholly wretched about more or less everything.

I get moments when I am so glad I am still here (kissing an awesome lass I only met after all this happened, the excitement of a 5 year old kid whose life I play a major role in on Christmas eve, a late winner for my League of Ireland team after being two down... actually that was the same night as the kiss now that I think of it). However I also have days when I wish with all my heart that I had gone through with it and am furious with myself for not seeing it through.

It's a battle. A daily battle and sometimes one of minutes. But as long as I'm willing to keep fighting it's worth fighting for I suppose.

Don't loose the Battle, If you are suffering from depression feel free to reach out, PM me in private and you will always have an ear to listen to. As bad your situation is, leaving a hole in the hearts of your loved ones is no answer, you just sow a circle of grieve and depression and pass it to others who end up asking for years "WHY"...

I might make a suggestion that you try and change as much as possible your life, sometimes there are triggers of depression you are not aware of, and some practical changes can help (like avoiding Alcohol completely for a period, travelling, or doing some volunteer work) there is no hard and fast rule in this area.. but if you need help reach out, don't be a stranger.

Vision of Disorder

recourse wrote: »

Don't loose the Battle, If you are suffering from depression feel free to reach out, PM me in private and you will always have an ear to listen to. As bad your situation is, leaving a hole in the hearts of your loved ones is no answer, you just sow a circle of grieve and depression and pass it to others who end up asking for years "WHY"...

I might make a suggestion that you try and change as much as possible your life, sometimes there are triggers of depression you are not aware of, and some practical changes can help (like avoiding Alcohol completely for a period, travelling, or doing some volunteer work) there is no hard and fast rule in this area.. but if you need help reach out, don't be a stranger.

Many, many thanks for that message. I have a fairly great support network (some with similar stories to mine, some not) but you can never have enough and I appreciate that offer greatly. In the here and now I feel reasonable enough that I can talk quite openly to people about anything but I remember a day last summer when I felt wretched and, while walking home, knew I needed to talk to somebody. I scrolled through every number in my phone and felt I couldn't call any of them (incorrectly and unfairly, several had already implored me to call anytime, day or night). When you feel as I felt then though, it's hard to keep perspective on that. Feeling I couldn't talk to anybody just made me feel more isolated and lonely and, by extension, even worse.

I moved back to the countryside in April and changed jobs at the same time. That was a suitably large change for now I feel. As for alcohol, I've actually never drank (I never felt it would be good for me, even at 15/16 when most of my friends started), perhaps that is the problem! (poor joke, apologies to all) :P

The Black Oil

The latest NOSP suicide and self-harm figures were released today. Men aged 20-24 are a high risk group. For some reason I had thought it was 18-late 20s. Anyway, hopefully these figures will down (though they're probably still underestimated overall in Ireland) and stigma will be reduced.

human24365

Medical Science has no answer for the person who becomes addicted to suicidal thinking. Mental Health professionals depend on mood altering medications. The decision to end ones life is a choice made by an individual. There comes a moment when a person decides they do not want to go on living. They have a method that ultimately they think suits them, quick or slow painless as possible or painful as possible. Feelings buried can surface and overwhelm and can kill. If a person sees no other solution, as already mentioned here they will end their lives. Why do I say this, well over my life I secretly wanted to end my life on a regular basis, as results of desperation over several addictions that cost me dearly in human terms and financially. I am in my sixties now and have survived 12 unsuccessful attempts. I could not survive by my will power or instinct to live no matter what. I had to reach out to another person who was addicted to suicidal thinking. We have succeeded in keeping each other away from the thinking that leads us to Suicide.

Vision of Disorder

human24365 wrote: »

Medical Science has no answer for the person who becomes addicted to suicidal thinking.

It's like Pandora's Box isn't it? I found in my own experience that there is sometimes comfort in the knowledge that the option is there, like the red button waiting to be pressed as a final resort. The problems arise obviously when the thoughts themselves no longer act as a release.

human24365

Hi Vision of Disorder, Your term for the process that leads a person to end their life, "Pandora's Box" is very descriptive. You got the way out of this Box, Well Done! I found the buzz of fear, elation, Yes nothing can touch me while I am buzzing between fear and elation, now no matter what happens I have this safe place to retreat too and I can spend hours there. Any harm that comes to my life will not matter as I have the final solution within my grasp.

iptba

New Research:

2008 economic crisis could be to blame for thousands of excess suicides worldwide
Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 15:06

Research: Impact of 2008 global economic crisis on suicide: time trend study in 54 countries

In a paper published today on bmj.com, researchers are suggesting that the 2008 global economic crisis could be to blame for the increase in suicide rates in European and American countries, particularly among males and in countries with higher levels of job losses.

Press release continues at: http://www.bmj.com/press-releases/2013/09/17/2008-economic-crisis-could-be-blame-thousands-excess-suicides-worldwide

Paper itself is at: "Impact of 2008 global economic crisis on suicide: time trend study in 54 countries" http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5239

BobTheNihilist

Might as well bump this ta f**K.

Xmas will be upon us shortly. Suicide rates are high this time of year. A lot of break ups, serious arguments and money worries fuels this.

please talk to somebody if you feel down or in despair.