I've Joined a Cult

Ole Rodrigo

Below is a list of carb amounts per day, taken from the Primal Blueprint, for an average male roughly 5ft 10, 80 kilos. It can be adjusted for exercise levels..so just work out the amount of carbs you need for a particular exercise, identify the source and add them on. Simple.:pac:

300 or more grams/day - Danger Zone!

Easy to reach with the “normal” American diet (cereals, pasta, rice, bread, waffles, pancakes, muffins, soft drinks, packaged snacks, sweets, desserts). High risk of excess fat storage, inflammation, increased disease markers including Metabolic Syndrome or diabetes. Sharp reduction of grains and other processed carbs is critical unless you are on the “chronic cardio” treadmill (which has its own major drawbacks).

150-300 grams/day – Steady, Insidious Weight Gain

Continued higher insulin-stimulating effect prevents efficient fat burning and contributes to widespread chronic disease conditions. This range – irresponsibly recommended by the USDA and other diet authorities – can lead to the statistical US average gain of 1.5 pounds of fat per year for forty years.

100-150 grams/day – Primal Blueprint Maintenance Range

This range based on body weight and activity level. When combined with Primal exercises, allows for genetically optimal fat burning and muscle development. Range derived from Grok’s (ancestors’) example of enjoying abundant vegetables and fruits and avoiding grains and sugars.

50-100 grams/day – Primal Sweet Spot for Effortless Weight Loss

Minimizes insulin production and ramps up fat metabolism. By meeting average daily protein requirements (.7 – 1 gram per pound of lean bodyweight formula), eating nutritious vegetables and fruits (easy to stay in 50-100 gram range, even with generous servings), and staying satisfied with delicious high fat foods (meat, fish, eggs, nuts, seeds), you can lose one to two pounds of body fat per week and then keep it off forever by eating in the maintenance range.

0-50 grams/day – Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning

Acceptable for a day or two of Intermittent Fasting towards aggressive weight loss efforts, provided adequate protein, fat and supplements are consumed otherwise. May be ideal for many diabetics. Not necessarily recommended as a long-term practice for otherwise healthy people due to resultant deprivation of high nutrient value vegetables and fruits

Note : What is meant by Chronic Cardio is :

Intense cardio ( Chronic Cardio ) as we commonly think of it today means long stretches at a sustained heart rate in the 80+% range.

The fact is, our hunter-gatherer ancestors didn’t ramp up their heart rates significantly for over an hour every day, and I don’t think we should either. They walked at a very low level of exertion, burning almost entirely stored fats. Once you get into the zones where less fat is burned and where there’s a big dependency on glucose to fuel muscles, your body goes into a less efficient mode of fuel oxidation. There are biochemical costs associated with this shift. Your muscles and liver can only hold 500-600 grams of precious glycogen (stored glucose) at any one time, which means about 2 hours’ worth for the best trained individuals and less for most people. That means that to come back and work out hard the next day requires at least 600 more grams of carbs every day. That’s just too much glucose and insulin to deal with every day.

I don’t recommend pushing this limit or even approaching it. Why bother? This kind of training (and diet) raises cortisol levels, increases oxidative damage, systemic inflammation, depresses the immune system and decreases fat metabolism. About the only thing good it does is improve cardiac muscle strength – and even then you get too the point of diminishing returns fairly quickly.

CramCycle

ROK ON wrote: »

bucket loads of fruit.

....related to knocking back on carbs and sugar.

As a matter of interest, what is bucket loads?

petethedrummer

Scuba_Scoper wrote: »

After about 3 days I definitely felt a huge drag on my system - referred to as carb-flu by adherents to the paleo way - but by day 5 it was if a fog lifted and energy levels soar

When I intitiated the dietary change I had a cold and bizarre as this sounds my energy levels went up while having a cold.

Anyway, I often suffered from colds and the only time I've got one since the dietary change is when I pummeled my body with "cardio". I was unsure what to do with all the excess energy I had so I went a bit nuts. This also lead to my hamstring/groin pull. So, I've stopped doing that. If I do an intense ride. I take the following day off and might go for a very light recovery 2 or 3 days after.

If you go here in Obree's documentary. He says he only did 3 hours hard training a week. He spent another 7 hours winding down and loosening up. He warns against over training in the book. A1/A2 cat riders riders might laugh that an A4 could possibly over-train on low mileage but we are working off a much lower endurance talent base and may hit our ceiling much much sooner than they.

ROK ON

CramCycle wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what is bucket loads?

Ok
I'm not eating fruit suddenly as part of this lifestyle/diet. I have always eaten a lot of fruit and nuts. When I say always I mean since a kid.

Most days I would eat a banana. Apples or pears. Mandarins. Berries when in season, particularly blueberries and strawberries. Plums/peaches/nectarines.
Nuts - lots of nuts. Particularly pecans, macadamias. I need to hide these because all of my kids are fiends for nuts. Pecans are too damn expensive to waste on a four year old.

I am aware of the sugar content of fruit and that it is a high GI food. In the past year I have started eating a small amount of nuts with my fruit, particularly with bananas.

My breakfast before a long cycle (say like the ring of Kerry this weekend) will be some low sugar granola with almond pecans a banana and some blueberries with some natural yoghurt. If I want an extra kick I add a small spoon of maple syrup.

petethedrummer

Peter Bruckner gives LCHF a go.

http://www.peterbrukner.com/category/diet/

You don't have to listen to me. Just read the experiences of a leading sports scientist.

ROK ON

I did the Ring of Kerry cycle on Saturday. I decided to experiment.

Night before instead of my usual pre long ride meal of Risotto I mada a salad with spinach leaves, onions, nuts, roasted red pepper and chicken.
Dressed with basil oil.
Lovely.

The morning of the cycle instead of my usual granola I had two fried eggs, some pecans and I did have a banana (I know I know).

First 3 hours covered 92km in mostly Zone 3 HR.

Did the entire event at 5h45 mins. Mostly on my own. Overtaking as opposed to drafting - always doing some work.

Instopped half way and had some bad carbs - a pain au chocolat and a coffee. Not because I was hungry but because I gelt that I should eat something.

I did not feel tired, nor did I feel the need for an enormous amount of carbs.

Last night I did a short hilly cycle fueled on an o en roasted pork t bone chop marinated in cayenne and paprika.

Coming around to believing that I lead carbs less than I think I need them.

After the ROK my recovery meal was a bowl of bouilibase and a 99.

TinyExplosions

One thing I find interesting is that a lot of the sources online mention cold cuts as being a good thing for lunches etc -now maybe I'm getting it all wrong, and they are meaning higher quality deli meat, but does most of the ham etc you buy have a lot of salt and nitrates etc in it -is this a problem (is salt intake in general a problem with LCHF type diets?)

I dunno if it's down to the changes I've made, but I'm 4.2kg lighter now than I was 3 weeks ago when I started this, so something's going ok (I hope it'll accelerate a bit once I get out on the bike too!)

kumate_champ07

TinyExplosions wrote: »

One thing I find interesting is that a lot of the sources online mention cold cuts as being a good thing for lunches etc -now maybe I'm getting it all wrong, and they are meaning higher quality deli meat, but does most of the ham etc you buy have a lot of salt and nitrates etc in it -is this a problem (is salt intake in general a problem with LCHF type diets?)

I dunno if it's down to the changes I've made, but I'm 4.2kg lighter now than I was 3 weeks ago when I started this, so something's going ok (I hope it'll accelerate a bit once I get out on the bike too!)

my local butchers started selling beef sausages, I cook them and wrap them in tinfoil for a snack later. wouldnt touch cooked ham from a supermarket, even the so called carved ham is just compressed cuts of meat formed into a lump and then carved into square slices

my oven is broken, if it was working Id be buying meat joints and slicing them up myself

TinyExplosions

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

my local butchers started selling beef sausages, I cook them and wrap them in tinfoil for a snack later. wouldnt touch cooked ham from a supermarket, even the so called carved ham is just compressed cuts of meat formed into a lump and then carved into square slices

my oven is broken, if it was working Id be buying meat joints and slicing them up myself

That's along what I was thinking -though unfortunately I don't have the time to do the joints (though may give it a go at the weekend with a gammon or corned beef now you've put that in my head)

kumate_champ07

something else thats worth a try, ill do it eventually, homemade beef jerkey.

CramCycle

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

even the so called carved ham is just compressed cuts of meat formed into a lump and then carved into square slices

Mmmm... reformed meat.

Reminds me of the ads we used to see in work for meat re-claimers, get 112% meat from your carcass. (100% being what a skilled butcher would be able to take from the carcass, I presume). Ligaments etc. Put me off chicken nuggets for a long time

petethedrummer

TinyExplosions wrote: »

(is salt intake in general a problem with LCHF type diets?)

According to Gary Taubes the science surrounding salt is also terrible:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/we-only-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html?pagewanted=all
https://www.byliner.com/gary-taubes/stories/the-political-science-of-salt

Eating paleo, atkins, LCHF your kidneys don't retain the same amount of salt. And this leads to an initial quick water weight loss. Any paleo site will give you a long description of what goes on.

If you feel initially light headed eating this way they recommend you take some salty water. I felt a touch light headed and had some salty water, it hasn't returned since.

petethedrummer

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

my oven is broken, if it was working Id be buying meat joints and slicing them up myself

A slow cooker is the job. Nothing tastes bad when you cook it for 8 hours.

Lumen

petethedrummer wrote: »

Nothing tastes bad when you cook it for 8 hours.

Quorn?

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

Quorn?

Sorry I meant soups, stews. and broths. They get better the longer you leave them.

TinyExplosions

petethedrummer wrote: »

According to Gary Taubes the science surrounding salt is also terrible:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/we-only-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html?pagewanted=all
https://www.byliner.com/gary-taubes/stories/the-political-science-of-salt

Eating paleo, atkins, LCHF your kidneys don't retain the same amount of salt. And this leads to an initial quick water weight loss. Any paleo site will give you a long description of what goes on.

If you feel initially light headed eating this way they recommend you take some salty water. I felt a touch light headed and had some salty water, it hasn't returned since.

You're my new hero Pete... this really sounds like the kind of thing I could get on board with!

petethedrummer

TinyExplosions wrote: »

You're my new hero Pete... this really sounds like the kind of thing I could get on board with!

Aww thanks. But before anyone gets on board. I would suggest you do your own research and not just listen to the ramblings of a nutter on the internet.

Anyone I know who has tried Atkins (probably without actually reading the book) just seems to eat scrambled egg and rashers for every meal.

Lumen

My father in-law is recovering from a triple bypass, and I was reading his leaflets at the weekend. They're all about low fat. So I googled and found this:

Low-Carb Diets Imperil People Prone to Heart Disease
http://www.livescience.com/19293-carb-diets-heart-attack-risk.html

However, it does finish with:

"Many advocates on both sides of the diet debate — the low-fat and low-carb camps — have reached some common ground in recent years. Both camps now emphasize "good carbs," which are complex carbohydrates found in whole grains and beans, as opposed to the simple carbs found in sugar, white bread and potatoes; and "good fats," such as the healthful omega-3 fatty acids found in some fish, and unsaturated fats found in poultry."

CramCycle

petethedrummer wrote: »

Anyone I know who has tried Atkins (probably without actually reading the book) just seems to eat scrambled egg and rashers for every meal.

Everyone I know who tried that diet had only heard the basic starting out rules on TV, not one of them read the book and even fewer realised that the diet they were on was only meant to be that way at the start.

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

Both camps now emphasize "good carbs," which are complex carbohydrates found in whole grains and beans,

I'm fairly sure this is not true. Especially in the case of grains. Paleos and LCHFers seem to be as equally vociferous in their condemnation of wheat as they are about sugar.

Beans don't get a pass either.

Paleo's seem to be fine with carbohydrates in the form of beetroot, carrots and sweet potatoes. Which I have to say don't seem to cause me any issues. Regular spuds do though.

Lumen

This thread is making me want to buy a glucometer.

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

This thread is making me want to buy a glucometer.

If you feel healthy just close the thread.

Lumen

petethedrummer wrote: »

If you feel healthy just close the thread.

I did feel healthy until I read this thread. Now I think I have cancer.

Dermot Illogical

Lumen wrote: »

I did feel healthy until I read this thread. Now I think I have cancer.

Not a problem, unless you seek advice.

DirkVoodoo

I'm loving this blog. I've started dictating paleo to my family without really knowing anything about it yet.

I do know that all the symptoms you have discussed seem to afflict me.

I started by removing potatoes. Potatoes make me sleepy.

I'll build it up from there! Or tear it down, whatever way we are looking at this.

Chartsengrafs

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I started by removing potatoes. Potatoes make me sleepy.

I'm taking antihistamines like Smarties at the minute...nothing. Give me some mashed potatoes and it's sleepy time..

DirkVoodoo

Basster wrote: »

I'm taking antihistamines like Smarties at the minute...nothing. Give me some mashed potatoes and it's sleepy time..

Christ, this pollen. I'm permanently tired, I feel slightly dizzy and nauseated and my head feels like it's in a pressure cooker.

Hysterical pregnancy has not been ruled out either.

I'm chatting with this girl (go Dirk!) who is a dietitian and claims paleo is not all it's cracked up to be. I'll report back when I get to the bottom of...it.

Seaneh

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Christ, this pollen. I'm permanently tired, I feel slightly dizzy and nauseated and my head feels like it's in a pressure cooker.

Hysterical pregnancy has not been ruled out either.

I'm chatting with this girl (go Dirk!) who is a dietitian and claims paleo is not all it's cracked up to be. I'll report back when I get to the bottom of...it.

Ask your doc to try Singulair, its the only hayfever treatment that's ever worked for me.

TinyExplosions

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I'm chatting with this girl (go Dirk!) who is a dietitian and claims paleo is not all it's cracked up to be. I'll report back when I get to the bottom of...it.

The girl, or her thoughts on paleo?

CramCycle

Lumen wrote: »

This thread is making me want to buy a glucometer.

I'll give you one, companies throw them at Diabetics.