I've Joined a Cult

TinyExplosions

I agree with Rok_On, regardless of any bunkum or anything I think that watching what you eat has a knock on effect of one eating less calories, which leads to weight loss -I'm down 5kg or so without any extra exercise simply by (like Rok_On) cutting out carbs and sugar -everyones mileage may vary, but I'll stick with it a while longer -seems to make sense to me anyway!

And yes, this is possibly the best thread in years -thanks pete!

Ole Rodrigo

It seems to me whats important is the emphasis on natural foods..that is foods close to their natural state. Thats what paleo really is under the hood. The emphasis on grass fed beef is not that relevant in Ireland because our beef is generally of such high quality anyway ( certain burgers notwithstanding, lol ). Which reminds me, Irish Duck is very high quality..Silverhill Foods in Monaghan produce duck for most of the Chinese restaurants here and in the UK and got the thumbs up from Heston Blumenthal.Thats good enough for me anyway .

Its foolish though, I think, to rule out grains as a practical source of calories, when they are needed - theres much difference between organic steel cut oats or wholgrains and uncle bens boil in the bag rice, or a bag of mass produced pasta and white bread - just as animal fats are great for making sure vegetables are digested fully, as well as convenient calories, but if those fats have become drenched in growth hormones it defeats the purpose.

If anything the paleo doctrine highlights the importance of keeping an eye on simple carbs and sugar - something especially relevant to amateur/ leisure cyclists. Not just the empty calories but the effects on metabolism and digestion. Like the article in SA mentions, various micro-organisms in the digestive tract are a relatively new feature of human digestion, and are one of the ways in which sugar causes problems - various bacteria strains thriving on sugar and hindering nutrient absorption from wholefoods.

I'll reiterate my thumbs up for leafy greens too, cant say enough good things about that change in my diet ( or at least knowing I have an effective solution should my diet become unbalanced ). Also..freshly squeezed lemon and/or lime in water is a tasty alternative to fizzy drinks and alkalizes the digestive system - top tip right there.

Two books by Mark Pollan are worth reading : The Omnivores Dillema and In Defense of Food. They are a triumph of common sense.

petethedrummer

ror_74 wrote: »

It seems to me whats important is the emphasis on natural foods..that is foods close to their natural state. Thats what paleo really is under the hood.

I think this largely may be the key but with a bit of tinkering round the edges depending on your individual case. Sean Croxton on Undergroundwellness.com has a moto. JERF. Just Eat Real Food.

Sean's podcasts and youtube videos are worth investigating. Now I don't agree with every person he has on. Some of them seem very woolly scientifically and I am always suspicious of alternative practitioners and chiropractors.

He has had some great interviews though and approaches things from the layman's point of view.

These 2 in particular
http://undergroundwellness.com/podcasts/side-effects-the-truth-about-cholesterol-lowering-drugs/
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/undergroundwellness/2011/02/28/the-obesity-epidemic-with-zoe-harcombe

The first interview is Dr. Cate Shanahan who if you remember this thread and this link; they recommend her book.

http://sportsexerciseengineering.com/2013/03/12/deep-nutrition-by-catherine-shanahan-md-luke-shanahan-mfa/

So again, not a quack.


Here's a decent video on leptin and its effect on weight control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhObSu7y2_A

Discusses wheat here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1oiJXNLwbo

Occasionally he does say some awful dumb things, but sure don't we all.

petethedrummer

ror_74 wrote: »

The emphasis on grass fed beef is not that relevant in Ireland because our beef is generally of such high quality anyway

Yeah that's true. My local butcher up at home raises all his own cattle. He'll be doing a roaring trade in bone sales to me in the coming weeks,

ror_74 wrote: »

I'll reiterate my thumbs up for leafy greens too

This talk of green reminds me of this piece of advice from Uffe Ravnskov from his book Fat and Cholesterol are Good for You.

"The idea that you become fat by eating fat is just as silly as to say that you become green by eating green vegetables".

Also in the Epilogue he says. "Everyone must gain the truth in an active way. If you want to know something you must look at all the premises yourself, listen to all the argument yourself, and then decide yourself what seems to be the most likely answer. You may be easily led astray if you ask the authorities to do this work for you."

Anyway. I finished the book last night and I think I'll knock the nutrition reading on the head for a while. I think it's time to nourish the mind with some classic literature*.

*cycling biographies really.

Zyzz

Has anyone tried a strict paleo diet while doing a decent amount of training?

petethedrummer

Zyzz wrote: »

Has anyone tried a strict paleo diet while doing a decent amount of training?

I'm in the middle of it. But I have vastly reduced my training load these days. I have to collect 3 points to get out of A4.

We'll see how it goes. I didn't get dropped last week which was the main objective and a first for me after a long lay off from training and racing. Next week will be an attempt to get points. I did my intervals tonight. Any subsequent riding this week will be just turning the legs over gently. If I haven't managed to induce some DOMS I may do another short interval session, will make a decision on Wednesday.

According to his website Bryan McCrystal is a paleo advocate. He's alright on the bike too.

petethedrummer

My Record of open racing is
Mid 2011: Dropped
Early 2012: Dropped
Early 2012: 1st
Mid 2012: 6th
Early 2013: Dropped
Early 2013: Dropped
Mid 2013: Finished in Group

I've been struggling with asthma for the last number of years and have been unable to train and race regularly due to it. I expect to get to A3 and get dropped alot.

petethedrummer

petethedrummer wrote: »

If I haven't managed to induce some DOMS I may do another short interval session, will make a decision on Wednesday

Had mild DOMs on Wednesday night. Would have preferred more. But I don't think I pushed the intervals hard enough on Monday. For 2 reasons.

1. I am cagey about causing an injury.
2. It's hard to push yourself hard. I need a drill Sergeant.

Went for a gentle recovery ride last night and got passed by loads of cyclists. The fools. Don't they know going slow is the new going fast.

kumate_champ07

petethedrummer wrote: »

Yeah that's true. My local butcher up at home raises all his own cattle. He'll be doing a roaring trade in bone sales to me in the coming weeks,

This talk of green reminds me of this piece of advice from Uffe Ravnskov from his book Fat and Cholesterol are Good for You.

"The idea that you become fat by eating fat is just as silly as to say that you become green by eating green vegetables".

Also in the Epilogue he says. "Everyone must gain the truth in an active way. If you want to know something you must look at all the premises yourself, listen to all the argument yourself, and then decide yourself what seems to be the most likely answer. You may be easily led astray if you ask the authorities to do this work for you."

Anyway. I finished the book last night and I think I'll knock the nutrition reading on the head for a while. I think it's time to nourish the mind with some classic literature*.

*cycling biographies really.

my aunt turned orange after eating too many carrots! it took a few weeks for it to happen.

petethedrummer

John Yudkin. A legend. If only we had listened to him instead of Ancel Keys.

Zyzz

Down quite a number of KG over the past weeks..keep it clean, eggs for brekkie, chicken and veg for dinner x2 along with some green tea and a lot of water

Soarer

What do you guys use for lunch/dinner/snacks?

Breakfast is a breeze. But I don't know what to "snack on" that' high fat/low carb.

Also, what's the thinking on Coke Zero for a "sugar" kick? No carbs. No sugar. No calories.

TinyExplosions

Coke Zero is full of aspartame and acesulfame-K -which are just sugars by a different name (iirc), so while you're not adding calories you are ingesting sugar (which we should be avoiding!)

Snacks can be carrot sticks, celery sticks, almonds etc.

For lunch I tend to go with M&S salads (I love beetroot!), or even cottage cheese and some chicken or turkey or something

Ole Rodrigo

Soarer wrote: »

Also, what's the thinking on Coke Zero for a "sugar" kick? No carbs. No sugar. No calories.

No such thing as a free lunch. :pac:

Soarer

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Coke Zero is full of aspartame and acesulfame-K -which are just sugars by a different name (iirc), so while you're not adding calories you are ingesting sugar (which we should be avoiding!)

Snacks can be carrot sticks, celery sticks, almonds etc.

For lunch I tend to go with M&S salads (I love beetroot!), or even cottage cheese and some chicken or turkey or something

Dry roasted/salted peanuts?

petethedrummer

Soarer wrote: »

What do you guys use for lunch/dinner/snacks

Snacks: Lots of Almonds and Brazil nuts. Macadamia nuts if I can find them, they're not that common in supermarkets.

The Paleo world is full of meal ideas:
http://civilizedcavemancooking.com/
http://www.thepaleomom.com/

TinyExplosions

Soarer wrote: »

Dry roasted/salted peanuts?

I'm allergic, so not for me!

smacl

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Coke Zero is full of aspartame and acesulfame-K -which are just sugars by a different name (iirc), so while you're not adding calories you are ingesting sugar (which we should be avoiding!)

Health aspects aside, quantities are minute by comparison to sugar quantities in a non-diet drink are tiny though, hence the lack of calories. You'd see much more sugar in an apple, or even your carrot sticks.

smacl

Soarer wrote: »

Dry roasted/salted peanuts?

Apparently not, as peanuts are legumes and not nuts. Some more detail here. I love nuts, with peanuts not being a favourite but certainly cheaper and more available. Two considerations are high calorie density, and added salt, where many other nuts are more palatable unsalted. All nuts are high calorie afaik.

Ole Rodrigo

smacl wrote: »

Apparently not, as peanuts are legumes and not nuts. Some more detail here. I love nuts, with peanuts not being a favourite but certainly cheaper and more available. Two considerations are high calorie density, and added salt, where many other nuts are more palatable unsalted. All nuts are high calorie afaik.

A better snack would be a high quality Peanut Butter (like Kelkn ) with celery sticks.They are a legume, so the general consensus is to eat sparingly. Not easy to do as any Peanut Butter fan will tell you - its all or nothing.

Nuts are high calorie ( to be considered if you're looking to lose weight )

Better still would be Cashew Nut Butter which you can make yourself with a blender, or buy it from one of the Health Food stores like Nourish. Tasty but not cheap.

With soda drinks, I'd avoid them altogether unless you've been on the bike for a few hours in the heat. The spirit of Paleo is essentially unprocessed whole foods. Try mineral water with freshly squeezed lemon or lime. Very nice.

smacl

ror_74 wrote: »

With soda drinks, I'd avoid them altogether unless you've been on the bike for a few hours in the heat. The spirit of Paleo is essentially unprocessed whole foods. Try mineral water with freshly squeezed lemon or lime. Very nice.

My favourite is celery, apply and lime put through the juicer with a splash of tabasco at the end. Yum!! That and fresh mint tea, which is equally good hot or chilled, and grows like weeds wherever you decide to plant it.

Soarer

Just looking at the nutritional info on the back of my nuts there (oo er missus!).

Per 100g.
Energy 629kcal
Carb 6.6g, of which sugar 3.6g
Fat 53g

Surely those figures add up as a good snack food, beit a nut or a legume?

I'm talking about for weightloss btw.

P.S. Peanut butter and celery sticks? WTF??

smacl

Soarer wrote: »

Just looking at the nutritional info on the back of my nuts there (oo er missus!).

Per 100g.
Energy 629kcal
Carb 6.6g, of which sugar 3.6g
Fat 53g

Surely those figures add up as a good snack food, beit a nut or a legume?

I'm talking about for weightloss btw.

P.S. Peanut butter and celery sticks? WTF??

'fraid not, that is a lot of calories per mouthful. I'd go for hummus with my celery and carrot sticks, which is delicious and while still quite high calorie, much less so than just eating nuts. Not very paleo mind you, chick peas being another of those legumes, but perfectly healthy imho.

Soarer

smacl wrote: »

'fraid not, that is a lot of calories per mouthful. I'd go for hummus with my celery and carrot sticks, which is delicious and while still quite high calorie, much less so than just eating nuts. Not very paleo mind you, chick peas being another of those legumes, but perfectly healthy imho.

Fair enough.

I'm obviously not understanding all this stuff. I thought more fat = more calories = more weightloss?

petethedrummer

smacl wrote: »

Two considerations are high calorie density, and added salt, where many other nuts are more palatable unsalted. All nuts are high calorie afaik.

There's nothing wrong with salt and worrying about the c****** content of food is not allowed in my thread.:pac:

smacl

petethedrummer wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with salt and worrying about the c****** content of food is not allowed in my thread.:pac:

Apologies for using the C word, totally out of order

Soarer

petethedrummer wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with salt and worrying about the c****** content of food is not allowed in my thread.:pac:

Hey Pete.

Any chance you could bang me a pm explaining things/foods/etc? Obviously I'm big and ugly enough to make up my own mind on things, and your info (not advice!) will be taken with a pinch of salt!

TinyExplosions

Soarer wrote: »

Hey Pete.

Any chance you could bang me a pm explaining things/foods/etc? Obviously I'm big and ugly enough to make up my own mind on things, and your info (not advice!) will be taken with a pinch of salt!

Sod the PM's, stick it in the thread so that all us disciples of Pete can follow the righteous advice!

-though I'm cheating tonight and having a dirty curry with Naan

petethedrummer

ror_74 wrote: »

A better snack would be a high quality Peanut Butter (like Kelkn ) with celery sticks.They are a legume, so the general consensus is to eat sparingly. Not easy to do as any Peanut Butter fan will tell you - its all or nothing.

Nuts are high calorie ( to be considered if you're looking to lose weight )

Better still would be Cashew Nut Butter which you can make yourself with a blender, or buy it from one of the Health Food stores like Nourish. Tasty but not cheap.

With soda drinks, I'd avoid them altogether unless you've been on the bike for a few hours in the heat. The spirit of Paleo is essentially unprocessed whole foods. Try mineral water with freshly squeezed lemon or lime. Very nice.

+1 (apart from the calorie bit)

j@utis

Soarer wrote: »

What do you guys use for lunch/dinner/snacks?
...

have three decent size meals and you'll have no need to snack.
to loose weight you have too keep your insulin levels low and stable for your body to be able to access your body fat reserves. who haven't heard about "fasted cardio" which is so popular in bodybuilding world - do your cardio on your empty stomach in the morning when insulin is low.
constant grazing or so called "snacking" which is pushed on us by snack "foods" manufacturers, is spiking your insulin and therefore interfering with your fat loss. if you're dying of hunger in between your meals you're not eating enough during your meals or you can't distinguish between real hunger and your psychological need to chew. low carb snacks are better option than say fruit or muesli bars or other heavily advertised junk but still you'd be better off eating less frequently.