I've Joined a Cult

AstraMonti

ror_74 wrote: »

Nothing to do with cycling - just too much carbs (sugar) for the effort expended.

That's way too true. You see very often people going for 20-30k cycles and drink a bottle of gatorade/lucozade after that. Whatever calories you lost in that hour you got them back twice..

Ole Rodrigo

AstraMonti wrote: »

That's way too true. You see very often people going for 20-30k cycles and drink a bottle of gatorade/lucozade after that. Whatever calories you lost in that hour you got them back twice..

Yep, and you do see more portly chaps on bikes then you would do running, which suggests either less effort or over compensation.

It's too easy to knock your system off balance with too much sugar - even if you're not putting on weight.

petethedrummer

AstraMonti wrote: »

Whatever calories you lost in that hour you got them back twice..

Can we please not mention the "c" word in this thread?:)

AstraMonti

petethedrummer wrote: »

Can we please not mention the "c" word in this thread?:)

ROK ON

Everytime I think of this thread I think of Homer and the cult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fnmhj58o0k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

petethedrummer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yCeFmn_e2c

petethedrummer

niceonetom wrote: »

What I don't understand, and haven't seen many examples of, is people using fat as a primary fuel source for events that fall between these two - a 2 or 3 hour road race for instance which requires the ability to ride way above fat burning exertion for significant portions of time. The glycogen you start with will not be enough to fuel the total effort and fat, even from a well trained fat burning metabolism, cannot supply the energy fast enough to sustain the intensity.

I'm coming round to your opinion on this. Here's Greg Rutherford(Long Jumper).

In this interview (advert for maximuscle). He says he doesn't eat many carbs, except a little post training. He says he leaned up because of it. And says it is not necessary for power-based sports and by that he seems to imply they are necessary for endurance events. More reasons for me to go to the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kht_gHMcM8

niceonetom

THE PALEO DIET FOR ATHLETES - CLIFF NOTES is worth a look. I haven't read the book but from the notes it does seem to boil down to 'eat paleo, but not on the bike, and probably not for a while afterwards either'.

j@utis

from the link above: "Even though  we  recommend  that  everyone  eat  a  diet similar to  what  our Stone Age ancestors  ate,  we  realize  that  nutritional concessions must be made for the athlete who is training at a high volume in the range of 10 to 35 or more hours per week of rigorous exercise."

you should only be concerned about your carbs intake if you are seriously into bike racing or other professional sport. majority of us here aren't. so, stop making a fuss and eat some more butter. without the bread of course.

petethedrummer

This is a lecture on a study comparing 4 diets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo

This video is interesting for a few reasons.

The good
1. The presenter seems not to have fudged the results which seems to happen a lot in nutrition studies. (Good scientist).
2. He is open about the limitations of this study (Good Scientist). It is not a very controlled study, which is the problem with most nutrition studies.
3. It's run by Stanford university which is a respectable institution.

The interesting
1. Atkins performs slightly better for weight loss, but not for everyone.
2. Atkins was the only one to improve the blood lipid profile.

Cognitive dissonance
1. The presenter is a vegetarian and can't come to terms with the fact that eating meat and saturated fat might be good for you.
2. He reckons those on the Atkins may have been extra diligent and ate nuts and fish. Hmmm. Why should the Atkins group be more diligent than the others?
3. His colleague has a theory that the results on Atkins could be due to the water intake. Hmmm. Obviously drinking water is more healthy than sugary drinks but I would presume the other diets would discourage sugary drinks.

ROK ON

I have failed already. The reason that I am I terraced in this thread is that I have a stupidly high consumption of confectionary and chocolate which I would like to knock on the head. Other than that I eat what could be described as a reasonably balanced diet.

Having flirted with high protein /low carb on and off for about 10 months this thread motivated mento give it a proper go.

I lasted three days. In that time ate meat, fish, shellfish, eggs, cheese, fruit, tonnes of nuts, salad. I enjoy this food in the main.

I raved last night and had chicken and an egg when I got home. Confession - I did have a bottle of 7up Zero. So that is sort of cheating.

This morning for breakfast I had some smoked ham, a natural yoghurt, nuts and blueberries.

I got to work and I needed sugary carbs. A scone and espresso later I feel satisfied but slightly ashamed.

This is bloody hard. It's nit like I'm eating food that is difficult to eat, I'm eating food that I love. The hard part is doing without food that I live even more.
After the race last might if someone offered me a slice of lemon tart, apple tart or maderia cake I would have sold my kids into slavery to get at it.

petethedrummer

ROK ON wrote: »

Having flirted with high protein /low carb on and off for about 10 months this thread motivated mento give it a proper go.

High Fat. Not high Protein. Protein intake should stay the same. Too much will make you ill.

It took me about 4 days to start to lose sugar cravings and about a week to be completely rid of them. They do return post heavy exercise, so Tom's take that carbs are necessary for extended cardiovascular exercise is making sense.

Like I said earlier I'm not advising anyone take this on. I am just presenting my case as I find nutrition fascinating.

TinyExplosions

ROK ON wrote: »

This is bloody hard. It's nit like I'm eating food that is difficult to eat, I'm eating food that I love.

A couple of tips I'd go with... first off, don't think of it as failure, you had 7up Zero and a scone -that's not going to kill you. Also, jumping cold turkey into something like this is setting yourself up to 'fail' -go a little bit at a time -starting with "I'll not have a can of coke with dinner", and slowly building it up so you aren't missing things as much. Easier to cut down over time than stop completely!

ROK ON

The protein that i had was fatty. Fried prawns, omelette with cheese and bacon, chicken fried and served on salad. You get the idea. Very very few carbs.

I wouldn't drink sift drinks with dinner, but after a race or hard effort I do find carbonated freezing cold drinks really kill the initial thirst.

I should have had a slice of cake last night. But the scone a while ago will have to suffice. I plan on doing high fat/low carb four days a week. I think it would benunfair to subject my kids to this form of behaviour.
I will let them developed their own psychosis in a more natural way that they can take ownership for.

petethedrummer

TinyExplosions wrote: »

A couple of tips I'd go with... first off, don't think of it as failure, you had 7up Zero and a scone -that's not going to kill you. Also, jumping cold turkey into something like this is setting yourself up to 'fail' -go a little bit at a time -starting with "I'll not have a can of coke with dinner", and slowly building it up so you aren't missing things as much. Easier to cut down over time than stop completely!

I can go along with this. I went cold turkey as I have(had) a very sweet tooth and thought I'd just jump in and see how it went. I was expecting a complete disaster, as I am not the most diligent person. The first week was odd. I still had carb cravings and felt a bit stuffed as I was eating lots of nuts in response to the carb hunger. Then it all evened out. Started feeling better after 3/4 days but still not "right". About a week and I felt much better.

I repeat. This is my experience and not a guideline.

petethedrummer

Today's Link (not too science heavy as it's friday).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

Comedian* Tom Naughton made this in response to Supersize me. The interesting bits are when he goes to see his doctor for cholesterol checks. Also he takes on some of Spurlock's claims. Spurlock wouldn't supply him with his eating diary from Supersize Me. Naughton wanted to count the calories to check Spurlock's account of things. Naughton (and I**) don't think the meat or the number of calories made him fat.

The most interesting bit starts here. http://youtu.be/evcNPfZlrZs?t=53m59s
A good synopsis of how we have ended up with our current food pyramid (or food plate as it is now in the U.S.).


Here is a short follow up video.
http://youtu.be/cRkcSI9P1_I


*he's not that funny.

** I'm not in the movie.

TinyExplosions

petethedrummer wrote: »

I can go along with this. I went cold turkey as I have(had) a very sweet tooth and thought I'd just jump in and see how it went. I was expecting a complete disaster, as I am not the most diligent person. The first week was odd. I still had carb cravings and felt a bit stuffed as I was eating lots of nuts in response to the carb hunger. Then it all evened out. Started feeling better after 3/4 days but still not "right". About a week and I felt much better.

I repeat. This is my experience and not a guideline.

I'm usually a fan of cold turkey, but am taking my current approach a little more balanced -I'm trying to cut down on carb intake, but still have a bowl of cornflakes (30g) every morning, but no bread, pasta, spuds, fizzy drinks etc etc (I might have a treat of some popcorn or a small bit of rice with a meal once or so a week), and filling up with meat and veggies -not seen much difference so far, but it's only a couple of weeks, and I'll let myself get used to this before paring it down some more. Hardest part is not stealing a bit of mash or a chip from the other halfs plate!

TinyExplosions

Oh, and no (or very little) beer -I'm a G&T man now

petethedrummer

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Oh, and no (or very little) beer -I'm a G&T man now

hmmm, my mates Da had heart trouble, the doc told him to give up G&Ts. This is all getting very confusing. I have the odd sneaky one myself but I'm usually a bit tipsy so deny all knowledge to myself the next morning.

TinyExplosions

petethedrummer wrote: »

hmmm, my mates Da had heart trouble, the doc told him to give up G&Ts. This is all getting very confusing. I have the odd sneaky one myself but I'm usually a bit tipsy so deny all knowledge to myself the next morning.

So everything nice is bad for you!? I figured it was better than a pint, but now I dunno... this nutrition stuff is hard ;(

ROK ON

Slimline tonic ftw and ye'll be grand.
I terms of gin I highly recommend Aviation Gin or Sipsmith.
Failing that, Tanqueray is acceptable.

TinyExplosions

ROK ON wrote: »

Slimline tonic ftw and ye'll be grand.
I terms of gin I highly recommend Aviation Gin or Sipsmith.
Failing that, Tanqueray is acceptable.

The Avation is certainly nice... maybe I'll have some next week

petethedrummer

TinyExplosions wrote: »

So everything nice is bad for you!? I figured it was better than a pint, but now I dunno... this nutrition stuff is hard ;(

Hamburgers are grand. No wonder I felt so good working in that hamburger factory (Gold Star Meats, Finglas) as student.

Lumen

TinyExplosions wrote: »

So everything nice is bad for you!?

I think the theory is that everything unnaturally nice is bad for you, and everything naturally nice is good for you.

So freshly baked bread is nice, but not natural, and so bad for you.

Problem is, there are lots of "unnaturally nice" things that I really don't want to give up, like bread, cheese, alcoholic drinks, and chocolate. On a low-fat-ish diet I can have all of those things in moderation. If I judge my health by my body shape, I'm doing fine. But am I?

So I have two concerns:

1. Is a badly-executed low-carb diet better than a badly-executed low-fat diet?

2. Correlation vs causation. Fat people die earlier, but does being fat kill you, or does eating the things which fat people eat kill you?

AstraMonti

I would guess is the second with the addition of no exercise. Eating sh!te and not moving is a bad combo.

ROK ON

What about colon cancer?
I am forever reading scare stories about high meat consumption being a contributory factor for increased risk of colon cancer. Then apparently dairy also causes cancer. I think life might actually be the casue of cancer but I don't want to out myself in the way if unnecessary risk.

The reason this diet (in the loosest sense) is attractive to menus that I can eat a lot of the food that I enjoy but concentrate in giving up the stuff that is plainly very bad for menin the quantities that I consume them, namely sugary confectionary.

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

1. Is a badly-executed low-carb diet better than a badly-executed low-fat diet?

I'm reading a book by Uffe Ravnskov and he maintains that Animal fats and dietary cholesterol are essential for good health. Malcolm Kendrick says the same. And so does Mary Enig (haven't read her yet).

Lumen wrote: »

2. Correlation vs causation. Fat people die earlier, but does being fat kill you, or does eating the things which fat people eat kill you?

Well becoming fat is one response to food that doesn't suit you. Your blood sugar goes crazy so your pancreas pumps out insulin and insulin is the main hormone that causes your cells to store fat. Some people have a lot of adipose/body fat. So its obvious their health may be compromised. But some people can be skinny and have visceral fat on their organs. A skinny person with a paunch for example.

Skinny people also get diabetes and heart disease.
People with low cholesterol probably have slightly fewer heart attacks but actually have more strokes and cancer than those with a higher cholesterol.

So weight is probably only one of many markers and not the cause of ill-health.

I've heard that sumo wrestlers have developed a method of eating and training that allows them to only acquire adipose tissue and that after their career they often easily lose the weight and don't suffer for it. Now I haven't read much about it yet so it may not be true. But one thing they do is skip breakfast, train hard and load up on carbs after. Obviously on a massive scale. I have seen similar advised for weight loss!

petethedrummer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUrzBKVvvDY

petethedrummer

There is also research to say you are better off being overweight and fit than skinny and unfit. Here's a short motivational video on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo

I have a long podcast from Dr Evans that I'll dig out in the coming weeks. His video on acne is also worth checking out, if you have teenagers in your life.

petethedrummer

ROK ON wrote: »

What about colon cancer?
I am forever reading scare stories about high meat consumption being a contributory factor for increased risk of colon cancer.

I've read this and I don't have any answers yet. So yeah I might get colon cancer, not sure yet. I haven't really increased my red meat intake. I have increased my fish intake.

ROK ON wrote: »

Then apparently dairy also causes cancer. I think life might actually be the casue of cancer but I don't want to out myself in the way if unnecessary risk

I don't seem to suffer any issues eating dairy. Some people do. Black people seemingly have a very high incidence of lactose intolerance. European whites are more adapted. But the Maasai pretty much only eat raw cows blood, meat and milk (type and have a very low incidence of cancer. We drink type A milk generally. I was going to get on to type A and B milk but much later down the line.

You'll notice, I haven't taken this dietary switch lightly.