Why can't teams approach the haka?

OldRio

trouttrout wrote: »

Did you even read any of the comments in the thread? Everyone is basically saying they like the Haka

Is anyone here blaming the Haka for their teams losing?

People are rightly pointing out the ridiculous preciousness that surrounds the oppositions reaction to it, and rightly so, why should the AB's be allowed a pre match routine and the opposition be forced to watch it

Nice dash of that famous Kiwi arrogance too in the above post

Kiwi ?

He wishes

titan18

Sipi Tau is the best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zbD_Bbb81s

Depp

say what you like about the haka but i look forward to seeing pacific nations face off against each other or new zealand, seeing the two wardances in opposition to each other is something else

.ak

Judgement Day wrote: »

Jeez, the bleeding Haka thread has become a real hardy annual. Perhaps when other teams start beating the All Blacks on a regular basis there will be less bitching over it. If it's not Richie McCaw cheating, or biased refereeing, it's the God damn Haka that's to blame for everybody losing. I saw a chink of light for France and, indeed, Ireland (this November) after the 1st test but I'm delighted to say that the door is now firmly slammed shut again - so roll on the Rugby Championship and the European Tour.

What does any of this have to do with the Haka JD? :P

prospect

Depp wrote: »

say what you like about the haka but i look forward to seeing pacific nations face off against each other or new zealand, seeing the two wardances in opposition to each other is something else

Indeed, because in that situation the opposition are allowed to respond.

I think the point of this thread is that most other opposition are not allowed to respond. Worse than that, they are forced to stand and watch.

Actually, are they obliged to stand?

razorblunt

Is the throat slitting gesture still allowed on one of their versions?

I love seeing the Haka and if I were a player I would love standing against that, be that as it may, I'd hate for the blazers to dictate what I can and can't do. If it's on neutral ground or you're at home then you should be able to do what you want (within limits i.e. no Cocckerill and Anderson approaches), stick to your own half, take extra time to take off gear etc.

Spudmonkey

ambid wrote: »

Check out the 1973 version - they've done some work on the choreography since then!

Clap handies, clap handies.....

Judgement Day

White folk ain't got no rythm!

Sabre0001

It's funny that people only want to respond / do something about the AB haka...

JJJJNR

Did they win the game.

Hunterbiker

+ 1 for the Tongan one

Mal-Adjusted

razorblunt wrote: »

Is the throat slitting gesture still allowed on one of their versions?

Didn't you hear? It's really a symbol for drawing air into your lungs, totally not a throat-slit. For realsies :rolleyes:

Losty Dublin

titan18 wrote: »

Sipi Tau is the best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zbD_Bbb81s

Compared to it the Haka looks and sounds like Pat-a-Cake Pat-a-Cake

corny

I've no problem with NZ & the South Sea Islanders dancing. I have a problem with the IRB dictating what the opposition should do and where they should stand. Do it for the crowd.

dingbat

I've always said that if one team wants to do a dance to intimidate the opposition then those opponents should be allowed to do whatever they want short as long as they stay in their own half.

Klunk_NZ

ambid wrote: »

Willie Anderson. Legend.

How did the test end up? :P

Challenging the Haka is fine, we loved the Arrowhead France did. I think you will even find NZ commentator saying "I bet the IRB is going to do something stupid like fining them"

Klunk_NZ

toomevara wrote: »

Anyone remember when the AB's threw their toys out of the pram against the Welsh and did their jig in the dressing room at the Millennium? Thus disrespecting Wales and, more importantly, the thousands who turned up to see them? I may be wrong but I don't remember any sanctions being imposed on them afterwards.

I can't disagree with you more.

I'd stop only just short of calling you an idiot. The AB's are well within their rights to do whatever the hell they like in their dressing room. Then go out onto the field and make them pay to the tune of 40-3.

Buer

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

I can't disagree with you more.

I'd stop only just short of calling you an idiot. The AB's are well within their rights to do whatever the hell they like in their dressing room. Then go out onto the field and make them pay to the tune of 40-3.

They're absolutely entitled to do what they want. That doesn't mean their actions didn't come across as extremely petty and spoiled. The WRU wanted to respond to the haka with a song which would have been a great spectacle. NZ refused to do the haka publicly because of this. Not much more to it.

Klunk_NZ

Buer wrote: »

They're absolutely entitled to do what they want. That doesn't mean their actions didn't come across as extremely petty and spoiled. The WRU wanted to respond to the haka with a song which would have been a great spectacle. NZ refused to do the haka publicly because of this. Not much more to it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10412657

The WRU tried to throw their weight around and change the order of proceedings. For over 100 years the Haka has followed the anthems. It backfired on them as the fans were denied a Haka and it seemed to fire up the AB's even more in a fiery 45-10 (correction from my 40-3 estimate) hiding.

PaulyBolger

this is one of my favorites

Klunk_NZ

PaulyBolger wrote: »

this is one of my favorites

Albeit rugby league, that was epic

Podge_irl

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

The WRU tried to throw their weight around and change the order of proceedings. For over 100 years the Haka has followed the anthems. It backfired on them as the fans were denied a Haka and it seemed to fire up the AB's even more in a fiery 45-10 (correction from my 40-3 estimate) hiding.

They tried to dictate the order of proceedings in their own stadium. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

Klunk_NZ

Podge_irl wrote: »

They tried to dictate the order of proceedings in their own stadium. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

And whilst that may be the case, the All Blacks as brand value is worth more money then any other international team touring your country. The Haka is part of what their fans want to see, the Welsh attempt to dictate the proceedings backfired on their own fans (not the viewers on TV).

It was the best possible move by the AB's no-one has tried to do it since.

Buer

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10412657

The WRU tried to throw their weight around and change the order of proceedings. For over 100 years the Haka has followed the anthems. It backfired on them as the fans were denied a Haka and it seemed to fire up the AB's even more in a fiery 45-10 (correction from my 40-3 estimate) hiding.

I know why it took place. Hansen's comments are incorrect also. The Welsh wanted to sing Bread of Heaven afterwards not their anthem. That's sung traditionally in Wales after the anthems too.

NZ can claim tradition all they like. Everyone knows the haka was a bit of a spoof years ago until television and marketing changed that.

I love the haka. It's a wonderful spectacle and the encounters between NZ and France have been the single most intense pieces of sporting pageantry I've attended. The incident in the Mill Stad though was a debacle and NZ came off terribly. They claim the haka is a challenge put down to the opposition. A team wants to respond to it with their own piece of theatre and they completely throw the toys out of the pram. It took preciousness to new heights in the eyes of almost everyone outside of NZ.

Buer

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

And whilst that may be the case, the All Blacks as brand value is worth more money then any other international team touring your country. The Haka is part of what their fans want to see, the Welsh attempt to dictate the proceedings backfired on their own fans (not the viewers on TV).

It was the best possible move by the AB's no-one has tried to do it since.

And you hit the nail on the head there in your first sentence. It's money. NZ are a huge draw for the home unions and pay big money to have them play. It's a guaranteed sell out for the union. NZ call the shots and teams cannot afford to upset them.

irishbucsfan

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

And whilst that may be the case, the All Blacks as brand value is worth more money then any other international team touring your country. The Haka is part of what their fans want to see, the Welsh attempt to dictate the proceedings backfired on their own fans (not the viewers on TV).

It was the best possible move by the AB's no-one has tried to do it since.

Ah right, so it's all about the money is it?

the_syco

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah right, so it's all about the money is it?

And thus them getting away with a couple of fouls each game is fairly suspect!

toomevara

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

I'd stop only just short of calling you an idiot. .

Ho-Ho, heavens-to-betsy sirrah!!! ! do believe you have insulted my honour!! I demand satisfaction...perhaps a haka-off at the walkabout of your choice? I do an excellent celtic-tinged interpretation...and please, please never,ever stop short on my account my old kiwi-fruit..let her rip!!!

jordainius

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10412657

The WRU tried to throw their weight around and change the order of proceedings. For over 100 years the Haka has followed the anthems. It backfired on them as the fans were denied a Haka and it seemed to fire up the AB's even more in a fiery 45-10 (correction from my 40-3 estimate) hiding.

The WRU are entitled to do whatever they want at their home venue, and the fans weren't denied anything, they went there to see a game of rugby, not a bit of shouting and dancing beforehand.

And the suggestion that the haka and how the opposition respond to it has an impact on the result of the game is absolute nonsense, the NZ players are hardly that precious... "We're going to try harder now because they didn't stand back and silently observe the haka"

It won't make NZ play any better, it might piss them off and make a few of them lose their cool, and do something like perhaps commit grievous bodily harm on say someone who had the temerity to pick up a bit of grass and throw it in the air afterwards, but it is just plain stupid to suggest that the haka will make a difference to the result of the game.

"We beat Wales 45-10 that day because of the disrepsect to our haka, good thing that happened or we would only have won 33-25."

Judgement Day

the_syco wrote: »

And thus them getting away with a couple of fouls each game is fairly suspect!

Oh dear....:rolleyes: