Squats the Story MkII- Off topic thread

D'Agger

Hey guys, tell me to eff off to a standalone thread but I've a query surrounding leg strength. So I'll ask the question & give some background as per why I'm asking for anybody who's interested

What leg exercises do you recommend for somebody with Anterior Pelvic Tilt (ATP)?

Currently I'm thinking:

- Deadlifts
- Lunges
- Calf Raises
- Leg press

If there are specific exercises that would work well for Glute strength I'd appreciate it - I need to strengthen my glutes in a big way, however, not being able to squat hinders that massively.


Background: I'm suffering (fairly badly atm) from Anterior Pelvic Tilt. It's causing me issues with my back, resulting from poor posture, weak core etc. So I've been doing very simple mobility exercises at home, pilates and yoga classes & joined the gym. Last time this flared up properly, Pilates helped no end, however I play GAA & found that I didn't keep up the pilates classes once I went back to ball - that won't be happening this time around. I'm in decent shape from eating well and football but I need to supplement the GAA training with daily mobility & strength and conditioning work.

The exercises I do at home are a mix of what I've researched through ATP articles/videos etc., been told by physio and find work best (Cat-Cow, Downward facing dog, glute bridges etc.) - I can't do a plank for more than 10seconds without feeling it in my back due to a lack of control so I've had to find what works for me and I'm trying to stick with that for a prolonged period now.

I won't be comfortable squatting - doing goblet squats with a kettlebell for example has me going into my back & not feeling it until the next day. Physio also told me not to do weight loaded squats as that would most likely serve to make the ATP worse & given my attempts at Goblet squats, I'd tend to agree.

I'd appreciate any exercises you think are worth checking out. I've researched this plenty and know what should help me with the ATP, however the S&C work that needs to go with it is what I'm concerned about. I'll be putting in the time & sessions, I just want to make sure I'm doing the best exercises to aid me.

Dtp1979

WizVigilante wrote: »

Brings a new meaning to racks in the gym.

Opening this I was expecting something different. Disappointed to say the least

deadlybuzzman

D'Agger wrote: »

Hey guys, tell me to eff off to a standalone thread but I've a query surrounding leg strength. So I'll ask the question & give some background as per why I'm asking for anybody who's interested

What leg exercises do you recommend for somebody with Anterior Pelvic Tilt (ATP)?

Currently I'm thinking:

- Deadlifts
- Lunges
- Calf Raises
- Leg press

If there are specific exercises that would work well for Glute strength I'd appreciate it - I need to strengthen my glutes in a big way, however, not being able to squat hinders that massively.


Background: I'm suffering (fairly badly atm) from Anterior Pelvic Tilt. It's causing me issues with my back, resulting from poor posture, weak core etc. So I've been doing very simple mobility exercises at home, pilates and yoga classes & joined the gym. Last time this flared up properly, Pilates helped no end, however I play GAA & found that I didn't keep up the pilates classes once I went back to ball - that won't be happening this time around. I'm in decent shape from eating well and football but I need to supplement the GAA training with daily mobility & strength and conditioning work.

The exercises I do at home are a mix of what I've researched through ATP articles/videos etc., been told by physio and find work best (Cat-Cow, Downward facing dog, glute bridges etc.) - I can't do a plank for more than 10seconds without feeling it in my back due to a lack of control so I've had to find what works for me and I'm trying to stick with that for a prolonged period now.

I won't be comfortable squatting - doing goblet squats with a kettlebell for example has me going into my back & not feeling it until the next day. Physio also told me not to do weight loaded squats as that would most likely serve to make the ATP worse & given my attempts at Goblet squats, I'd tend to agree.

I'd appreciate any exercises you think are worth checking out. I've researched this plenty and know what should help me with the ATP, however the S&C work that needs to go with it is what I'm concerned about. I'll be putting in the time & sessions, I just want to make sure I'm doing the best exercises to aid me.

I used to be crippled with ATP. It was all flexibility related and that's why I think asking what exercises are good for it is like asking what colour t shirt should I wear when I've a cold, it's not relevant.
Google psoas stretch if you haven't already and stretch the crap out of your hamstrings and roll. Do these three things every day and see what happens

Yer Aul One

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

I used to be crippled with ATP. It was all flexibility related and that's why I think asking what exercises are good for it is like asking what colour t shirt should I wear when I've a cold, it's not relevant.
Google psoas stretch if you haven't already and stretch the crap out of your hamstrings and roll. Do these three things every day and see what happens

Psoas stretch for sure but defo do not stretch your hammers. Your quads, lower back and hips are tight. Your hamstrings and core is weak and long. Do isolation exercises for your hammers (ham curls) and core work (planks or ab wheel) to strength and tighten. Do rolling and stretching for your quads, lower back and hips.

Lay off the deads and squats until you get your APT sorted. These will strengthen the areas you are already strong in. Concentrate on getting yourself to having a balance then go back to compounds.

Crippled with ATP for years now. Had gotten rid of it with the above but it is starting to creep back in conjunction with another injury.

Hopefully it works for you.

Mellor

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Psoas stretch for sure but defo do not stretch your hammers. Your quads, lower back and hips are tight. Your hamstrings and core is weak and long. Do isolation exercises for your hammers (ham curls) and core work (planks or ab wheel) to strength and tighten. Do rolling and stretching for your quads, lower back and hips.

"Hips" is a bit too generic there though isn't it.
Hip flexors are tight/shortened. But other hip muscles are on the weak/enlongated side of the pelvis.

Lay off the deads and squats until you get your APT sorted. These will strengthen the areas you are already strong in. Concentrate on getting yourself to having a balance then go back to compounds.

Is that definitely correct? I've never suffered too badly from APT, so maybe I'm wrong.

But my understanding is that APT is tight hip flexors, and weak extensors (hamstrings, glutes). In that case, deadlifts work the areas he needs strengthened? The posterior chain.
Obviously squats are quads centric. But the 3 of the 4 quads muscles act on knee only, not the hip. Only rectus femorus crosses the hip - if that's specifically the issue, then maybe it makes sense to cut squats for a bit.
But it could be coming from an issue with the psoas. In which case squats, aren't opposing the muscle - particular fronts squats with full extension at the top (over say Low bar)

Yer Aul One

Mellor wrote: »

"Hips" is a bit too generic there though isn't it.
Hip flexors are tight/shortened. But other hip muscles are on the weak/enlongated side of the pelvis.


Is that definitely correct? I've never suffered too badly from APT, so maybe I'm wrong.

But my understanding is that APT is tight hip flexors, and weak extensors (hamstrings, glutes). In that case, deadlifts work the areas he needs strengthened? The posterior chain.
Obviously squats are quads centric. But the 3 of the 4 quads muscles act on knee only, not the hip. Only rectus femorus crosses the hip - if that's specifically the issue, then maybe it makes sense to cut squats for a bit.
But it could be coming from an issue with the psoas. In which case squats, aren't opposing the muscle - particular fronts squats with full extension at the top (over say Low bar)

Yep, hip flexors is what I was referring to.

In response to the dropping of squats and deads. There is two opposing arguments - yes you are strengthening the posterior chain and that is key but you will also strengthen the lower back (DLs) and for some movements (Squats) the quads. As you are coming from a place with a mis-balance I would concentrate on isolation exercises only. But for people who dont have acute issues and are happy to slowly rectify- then maybe you dont have to remove dls and squats completely and work in more mobility for quads/hip flexors/lower back and strengthening work for glutes/hammers/core.

Yer Aul One

Mellor wrote: »

But the 3 of the 4 quads muscles act on knee only, not the hip. Only rectus femorus crosses the hip - if that's specifically the issue, then maybe it makes sense to cut squats for a bit.

You might be right on this one. Just reading up on that here and a lot of opinion out there supports it. Quads maybe do not have as much influence on APT as my physio(s) had explained.

Mellor

Yer Aul One wrote: »

You might be right on this one. Just reading up on that here and a lot of opinion out there supports it. Quads maybe do not have as much influence on APT as my physio(s) had explained.

I've haven't read too on APT specifically, just the usual articles that pop up.
I've read a bit about muscles of the knee and hips lately. Mainly for how they relate to flexibility and jiu jitsu. Learning little unknown (to me at least) facts all the time.

I only recently realised that one of the quads works the hip. They should really be a separate muscle groups, but too late not I suppose.




Another little known fact. You can't stretch your quads.

D'Agger

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Yep, hip flexors is what I was referring to.

In response to the dropping of squats and deads. There is two opposing arguments - yes you are strengthening the posterior chain and that is key but you will also strengthen the lower back (DLs) and for some movements (Squats) the quads. As you are coming from a place with a mis-balance I would concentrate on isolation exercises only. But for people who dont have acute issues and are happy to slowly rectify- then maybe you dont have to remove dls and squats completely and work in more mobility for quads/hip flexors/lower back and strengthening work for glutes/hammers/core.

Appreciate the responses all, TYVM

I suppose what I'm worried about is wanting to do some S&C work, whilst doing mobility stretches & yoga/pilates to work on APT (Apologies, called it ATP throughout my initial post) and that, in doing this, my legs will be left behind.

I know what I need to do for Chest, Arms, Back & Shoulders I just want to make sure that lunges, hamstring curls & deadlifts would help.

My biggest query is around deadlifts as I get the feeling this would help, whereas with squats - I know full well that I'm doing more harm than good. So the question is whether I should look to do deadlifts or is that going to cause more harm than good - tbh, I tend to agree with what Yer Aul One has said above in that deadlifts should help strengthen my glutes & posterior chain which is the goal, I don't see an issue with starting light and looking to belt out 3x8 once a week whilst I continue to load up on mobility work and improve my APT situation

Yer Aul One

D'Agger wrote: »

I tend to agree with what Yer Aul One has said above in that deadlifts should help strengthen my glutes & posterior chain which is the goal, I don't see an issue with starting light and looking to belt out 3x8 once a week whilst I continue to load up on mobility work and improve my APT situation

To be fair to Mellor, it was him who thought you would be good to continue with the DLs.

I had very bad APT. My lower back was constantly in tension. I would wake up with lower back spasms.

It was very important for me to stop strengthening my lower back (so I canned DLs for a while) and worked to stretch my lower back out.

You may be different. Doing the above and increasing core strength worked for me.

Obviously it suck3d not being able to do much lower body compounds in the gym but you can just concentrate on other things like yoga and upper body.

In my office there is about 10 of us on the floor that do the psoas stretch at our desks for 20mins a day. I also have ab wheel in my office that I grab. You can do lots of the work anywhere. Hardest part is trying to strengthen your hamstrings with isolation exercises, there really isn't that many ways to do this without a ham curl machine, that I know of anyways.

Mellor

D'Agger wrote: »

My biggest query is around deadlifts as I get the feeling this would help, whereas with squats - I know full well that I'm doing more harm than good. So the question is whether I should look to do deadlifts or is that going to cause more harm than good

If squats don't feel right, are uncomfortable or even sore. Then I'd go with your gut and avoid.
Include deadlifts and hip thrusts imo

Yer Aul One wrote: »

In my office there is about 10 of us on the floor that do the psoas stretch at our desks for 20mins a day. I also have ab wheel in my office that I grab. You can do lots of the work anywhere.

For some reason this is the first thing I thought of;


But it's pretty common in my place too.

D'Agger

Cheers lads, I think it's an odd one in that APT can affect different areas depending on what's weak - on account of their being 4/5 components that can contribute.

I think I need to strengthen Hammers & Glutes so DLs and Hammer Curls will work for that. Can also do core work with Yoga & Pilates in addition to incorporating that into my gym routine also then focus on upper body also - I just want to make sure I'm doing things correctly.

I can't use the ab wheel too well either - find I go into my back so will try give it a few weeks of good core work, pilates, yoga etc. before I go at it and see how I get on.

Thanks again for the solid advice once again!

Zillah

Is there much difference between these classes I see at the gym where they get people to swing a weight the size of a tv remote around for an hour and other forms of cardio? I'm sure it has some small effect on muscle development but I imagine if one twin did that for a year and the other twin did running and swimming just as often we'd see two largely identical bodies.

Which is a bit of a problem because I think that's what most people think "doing weights" is.

Dtp1979

Just looking for people's opinions on straps. Do many use them? Are they helpful or do they hinder grip strength development.?

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Just looking for people's opinions on straps. Do many use them? Are they helpful or do they hinder grip strength development.?

There's no reason to not use them if grip strength is going to limit the benefit from an exercise.

Exercises like rows or RDLs, for example, might be limited by grip strength without strap so why wouldn't you use straps. Work your grip with grip exercises if you want to strengthen your grup but don't short change yourself on other exercises that are targeting other muscles.

Dtp1979

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There's no reason to not use them if grip strength is going to limit the benefit from an exercise.

Exercises like rows or RDLs, for example, might be limited by grip strength without strap so why wouldn't you use straps. Work your grip with grip exercises if you want to strengthen your grup but don't short change yourself on other exercises that are targeting other muscles.

Thanks. Ye my grip definatley hinders my RDA

Mellor

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Just looking for people's opinions on straps. Do many use them? Are they helpful or do they hinder grip strength development.?

Catch 22. Use them if grip is limiting the lifts, but also ask yourself if grip is limiting them because you use them.

For example, I use them for snatch grip deadlifts as the grip is in weakened position. But I don't use them for regular deadlifts as I can hold more (with a mixed grip) than I can lift.
But a few years ago, grip was probably a limiting factor there, and would still be if I always used straps since then.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There's no reason to not use them if grip strength is going to limit the benefit from an exercise.

Exercises like rows or RDLs, for example, might be limited by grip strength without strap so why wouldn't you use straps. Work your grip with grip exercises if you want to strengthen your grup but don't short change yourself on other exercises that are targeting other muscles.

I agree to an extent, say if you were using overhand grip for RDLs, but at the same time. I think deadlifting without straps was one of the best ways I helped my grip.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

I agree to an extent, say if you were using overhand grip for RDLs, but at the same time. I think deadlifting without straps was one of the best ways I helped my grip.

I don't disagree. I was really talking about accessory work but if grip is a limiting factor for deadlift, then you're going to need to bring up the grip.

Reps4jesus

http://strengtheory.com/size-vs-strength/
another very good read from Nucklos

Thud

For your Flintstones gym, totes Paleo:



http://products.gymstick.com/fitrocks/

no prices on there but I'd say there more expensive than a masonry drill bit and a broom handle

Blacktie.

Thud wrote: »

For your Flintstones gym, totes Paleo:



http://products.gymstick.com/fitrocks/

no prices on there but I'd say there more expensive than a masonry drill bit and a broom handle

Where's the coconut oil? It's not paleo if there's no coconut oil!

WHIP IT!

Reading an article in a golf magazine here with Rory McIlroy talking about his fitness regime and, when asked if he does any cardio training, he says the following...

"I like running. I can go and run a 5k in 20 minutes. I used to like the bike but because it puts you in a hunched-over position, I can't do it anymore - and running is better for me because it's good for your posture."

For context, McIlroy explains earlier in the piece how important posture is for him and his golf swing and how it is something he always needs to keep an eye on...

However, I can't remember ever hearing it said that running was good for posture or cycling necessarily bad... what say you, Boards Brainstrust??

Hanley

Cycling is terrible for posture. Unless you want tight hips and to sit with a rounded back for hours.

Running isn't good for posture. Just less bad than cycling.

WHIP IT!

Hanley wrote:

Cycling is terrible for posture. Unless you want tight hips and to sit with a rounded back for hours.

But would that only really be a concern for a 'serious' cyclist - ie, someone who spends hours a day cycling? As opposed to someone like Rory who, presumably, would have been throwing in a couple of spins a week for some cardio?

Mellor

WHIP IT! wrote: »

However, I can't remember ever hearing it said that running was good for posture or cycling necessarily bad... what say you, Boards Brainstrust??

I think thats fairly widely acknowledged.

A regular cycling position is completely bias in the hip. Lots of flexion, and no extension at all. That results in shortened, tight hip flexors, which leads to APT and other posture issues.
It's very similar to the way sitting for long periods is bad. If you cycling in an aerodynamic racing postion, it could be worse as hips are more flexed than sitting.

Vegeta

This thread is messed up, I cannot navigate or view to the last page. Every time I try it brings me back to page 1

Hanley

WHIP IT! wrote: »

But would that only really be a concern for a 'serious' cyclist - ie, someone who spends hours a day cycling? As opposed to someone like Rory who, presumably, would have been throwing in a couple of spins a week for some cardio?

You need to spend a lot more time on a bike than you do running to get a similar cardio effect in my experience.

Plus, he spends a lot of time sending aggressive levels of torque thru his spine, anything that will negatively impact recovery there would be silly when there's other options available, especially for a guy with so much on the line

WHIP IT!

Mellor wrote:

A regular cycling position is completely bias in the hip. Lots of flexion, and no extension at all. That results in shortened, tight hip flexors, which leads to APT and other posture issues. It's very similar to the way sitting for long periods is bad. If you cycling in an aerodynamic racing postion, it could be worse as hips are more flexed than sitting.

Hanley wrote:

You need to spend a lot more time on a bike than you do running to get a similar cardio effect in my experience.

Hanley wrote:

Plus, he spends a lot of time sending aggressive levels of torque thru his spine, anything that will negatively impact recovery there would be silly when there's other options available, especially for a guy with so much on the line

Every day's a school day... cheers lads ðŸ‘

kumate_champ07

Hanley wrote: »

Cycling is terrible for posture. Unless you want tight hips and to sit with a rounded back for hours.

Running isn't good for posture. Just less bad than cycling.

wrong.
a bad bike fit is terrible for posture

bicycles arent 1 size fits all

40+ years ago it was normal for a cyclist to get a custom steel frame made locally, like a tailored pair of trousers. now its all made in Taiwan in S,M,L,

its important to have all your contact points at the right angles, you shouldnt have any pain or bad posture from cycling. there are many bike fit services available today, you can do the basics at home too

Conor McGregor actually does more bike work than running. long sessions arent needed either, bikes are perfect for HIIT

Hanley

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

wrong.
a bad bike fit is terrible for posture

bicycles arent 1 size fits all

40+ years ago it was normal for a cyclist to get a custom steel frame made locally, like a tailored pair of trousers. now its all made in Taiwan in S,M,L,

its important to have all your contact points at the right angles, you shouldnt have any pain or bad posture from cycling. there are many bike fit services available today, you can do the basics at home too

Conor McGregor actually does more bike work than running. long sessions arent needed either, bikes are perfect for HIIT

I take your points, and present;



That's a shot from the 2015 TDF.

Is it fair to say their bikes are well fit?

That's great about Conor too, but I don't see why it's relevant.