Youths attack Emergency Services trying to save their drowning friend

Rightwing

These things happen in dublin/limerick/cork. Much different to the rest of the country.

Duggys Housemate

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Indeed.

That's why there are no middle class people in prison. Not one. No young man from a 'good' family has ever gotten drunk and caused a public disturbance. Not even during a university rag week...

*waits for next thread about 'white collar crime' when the usual suspects will be brandishing pitchforks and complaining that the 'middle class' get off scot free.*

Good for you working with middle class people - so do I. In fact, I am one. What's your point? Have I broken the law at some point? Well those two penalty points I used to have say I did. But doesn't that count as I am not 'those people.'

From where I stand it's those who are quick to tar a whole minority with the same brush and will use the death of a young man to spread hate who are 'those people' we should be concerned about.

Jeeze - right wingers are so sensitive. Even the slightest little criticism and ye get all worked up. Don't like being called on your BS generalisations I suppose... Tough.

If you believe I have ad hom'd - report me.

Lol, what terrible arguments. You create a straw man - your own argument with yourself that no ( rather than fewer) middle class people never get into criminality - and then "rebut" it. Might as well argue with yourself on your own private internet. You also accuse me of making generalizations about a group. Eitjher you are incapable of reading, or understanding what you read because my only intervention in this thread was to point out our miserable understanding about basic logic. again - a straw man.

You are also incapable of understanding the moral difference between serious crimes, and criminality ( say rape, or attacking emergency forces when someone is dying) and missing payment of a TV license, or a penalty point. Although to be fair, people are jailed for the license non-payment so I can see where you might be confused, given the Irish State's priorities.

Not convinced with all those straw man arguments there is another straw man in lower sized text about white collar criminals, another argument not about people in this thread but some "usual suspects" ( Who? Not me, I've never been in such a thread), with apparent pitchforks who might intervene in this made up thread if one existed.

How about arguing on the points in the actual thread, and try and be logical.

Ace Attorney

scumbags! hope they do some jailtime for interfering with the rescue

Bannasidhe

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Lol, what terrible arguments. You create a straw man - your own argument with yourself that no ( rather than fewer) middle class people never get into criminality - and then "rebut" it. Might as well argue with yourself on your own private internet. You also accuse me of making generalizations about a group. Eitjher you are incapable of reading, or understanding what you read because my only intervention in this thread was to point out our miserable understanding about basic logic. again - a straw man.

You are also incapable of understanding the moral difference between serious crimes, and criminality ( say rape, or attacking emergency forces when someone is dying) and missing payment of a TV license, or a penalty point. Although to be fair, people are jailed for the license non-payment so I can see where you might be confused, given the Irish State's priorities.

Not convinced with all those straw man arguments there is another lower sized straw man about white collar criminals, another argument not about people in this thread but some "usual suspects" ( Who? Not me, I've never been in such a thread), with apparent pitchforks. In any case white collar crime tend to be upper class, not middle - you need access to finance.

How about arguing on the points in the actual thread, and try and be logical.

'I am incapable' - is that not an attack on me as the poster?

Shall I spell this out for you? A tragic drowning occurred. A group of drunken hoons attacked the Emergency services. These people should be arrested and charged with at the very least public order offenses. What is completely irrelevant is comments about 'certain ethnic minorities' and the bigoted rabble rousing from certain posters whom you are now defending. Every year during rag week here in Cork the area around UCC becomes a rat run of public order offenses and the residents are up in arms about the beheavour of students - the vast majority of whom are from middle class families but I hear no calls for them to be dropped out of airplanes. Double standards.
Do you seriously expect me to believe no member of the middle class engages in serious crimes - funny that, wasn't a hotel owner just convinced of raping a member of his staff while drunk there last week?

The point is that we need to deal with these situations with the full force of the law - not scapegoat one particular section of Irish society as always at fault and insisting everyone else is absolutely and completely law abiding all the time. That is lazy, untrue and solves nothing.

Accountants are upper class now??? Solicitors too?? Have a read of the papers and see how many of those have been convinced of fraud.

Bannasidhe

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Blueshirt?

Way wrong with that assumption mate. You did not like it because some home truths have been exposed to you and you really need to get a grip young fella.

As I am not and have never been a 'young fella' - you may wish to reassess your own assumptions.

And yes - you are coming across as favouring the wearing of a blue shirt - what with your impassioned hatred of a certain ethnic minority it's easy to see why.

gerarda

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Mandatory military service.

Round up anyone who was convicted for crimes like this. Create a second army called the "Scumbag regiment" and make them join or be jailed for life. Send them all to do peacekeeping abroad. If they do well, good, if they die, good.

Maybe it's a bit extreme but I read stories like this everyday and I'm just filled with pure hatred for anyone who does ****e like this.

Put this man in charge!!!

Grand Moff Tarkin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As I am not and have never been a 'young fella' - you may wish to reassess your own assumptions.

And yes - you are coming across as favouring the wearing of a blue shirt - what with your impassioned hatred of a certain ethnic minority it's easy to see why.

Kid you are all over the place.


The facts are simple a member of a certain ethnic minority died in a "swimming accident" and his friends took it upon themselves to attack the people who came to rescue him and not content with that the same bunch took their fighting ways up to the CUH where they upset both staff and patients in the hospital. People who act this way are scum and should have no rights or privileges in a healthy normal society once they start to attack frontline services all bets should be off and all their rights should go out the window.

the_syco

The scum have been attacking ambulances and fire engines for some time now. The only difference this time is that someone died due to their actions.

eireannBEAR

the_syco wrote: »

The scum have been attacking ambulances and fire engines for some time now. The only difference this time is that someone died due to their actions.

yes its societies problem we need to sort this country out.
the gardai are useless,they always have been.

AlekSmart

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Shall I spell this out for you? A tragic drowning occurred. A group of drunken hoons attacked the Emergency services. These people should be arrested and charged with at the very least public order offenses. What is completely irrelevant is comments about 'certain ethnic minorities' and the bigoted rabble rousing from certain posters whom you are now defending. Every year during rag week here in Cork the area around UCC becomes a rat run of public order offenses and the residents are up in arms about the beheavour of students - the vast majority of whom are from middle class families but I hear no calls for them to be dropped out of airplanes. Double standards.

Do you seriously expect me to believe no member of the middle class engages in serious crimes - funny that, wasn't a hotel owner just convinced of raping a member of his staff while drunk there last week?

The point is that we need to deal with these situations with the full force of the law - not scapegoat one particular section of Irish society as always at fault and insisting everyone else is absolutely and completely law abiding all the time. That is lazy, untrue and solves nothing.

Accountants are upper class now??? Solicitors too?? Have a read of the papers and see how many of those have been convinced of fraud.

I'm not so sure that the laziness and untruthfulness Bannasidhe speaks of is'nt also somewhat evident in her own post ?

This thread is about the specific drowning incident and the significance of the actions of the group concerned,both at the scene,and more worryingly later on at the CU Hospital.

In these specific cases the "Drunken Hoons" just happened to be from the travelling fraternity,and behaved in a manner deemed serious enough for local Gardai to request assistance from the Regional Support Unit,a specialist unit not normally required for dealing with "ordinary" (dare I say,Middle Class) criminal events.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/emergency-crews-attacked-at-river-rescue-233806.html

Reports from the hospital appear to indicate the "drunken hoons" were intent on removing their friends body,and were prepared to use whatever force they felt necessary to achieve this.

It also now transpires that this group had prior experience along similar lines..

Mr O’Driscoll’s uncle, William O’Driscoll, 36, died in early Feb 2007 after crashing his car on the South Ring Rd while trying to evade pursuing patrol cars. He had been followed after reports that he was driving dangerously.

Trouble also flared after William O’Driscoll’s death when relatives living at an unofficial halting site near Glanmire in Co Cork began to riot.

They threw missiles at passing cars, forcing gardaí to seal off the site and a number of roads in the area.

Gardaí dressed in riot gear were drafted in and after arresting five people eventually brought the situation under control.

I don't see any evidence of posters suggesting that "everyone else is completely and absolutely law abiding all the time".
However,to disregard the level and regularity of serious violent incidents involving this grouping smacks of the very laziness Bannasidhe proffesses to abhor,not to mention being equally useless at "solving" anything.

Bannasidhe

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Kid you are all over the place.


The facts are simple a member of a certain ethnic minority died in a "swimming accident" and his friends took it upon themselves to attack the people who came to rescue him and not content with that the same bunch took their fighting ways up to the CUH where they upset both staff and patients in the hospital. People who act this way are scum and should have no rights or privileges in a healthy normal society once they start to attack frontline services all bets should be off and all their rights should go out the window.

I haven't been a 'kid' for over 40 years mate. So less of the patronising condescension please.

I am not all over the place at all - you just don't like being called on your bigotry.

Yes- people who act like this are scum. But scum are found in all socio-economic backgrounds among all sections of society but that doesn't fit your agenda of playing the lets blame one minority group card.

Tell the residents of College Road in Cork that the people who vomit, urinate and have sex in their gardens or against their front doors, kick their wheelie bins down the road, scream abuse (and in some cases worse) at college security and the emergency services every Rag Week are members of an ethnic minority and they will laugh in your face.
I assure you, the students who end up suspended every year due to acting like scum are very much from the well-heeled ethnic majority and mummy and daddy are invariably quick to respond with solicitors letters and threats of legal action when their little Emily and Jake are punished by University authorities for acting like scum. Should little Emily and Jake loose their 'privileges'? They rarely do and will end up becoming solicitors, teachers, engineers etc and fully paid up members of 'respectable' society with their 'youthful indiscretions' laughed off.

FFS - David Cameron, George Osborne and Borris Johnson were members of the Bullingdon Club at Oxford which is known for trashing restaurants, country houses and various public order offenses - do you really believe social class or membership of the ethnic majority means people don't act like drunken scum? Do you think such things don't happen in Ireland? I'm not sure if you are naive or blinded by your very obvious prejudice against one section of Irish society.

Take a walk though our inner cities any weekend night and see the scum in action and the abuse the gardaí have to take - are you trying to tell me they are all members of a specific ethnic minority? That's BS and you know it.

We have a serious problem with alcohol fueled violence in this country, we have serious law and order issues in this country. We have a situation where the Emergency services are under resourced and under valued and are forced to endure a completely unacceptable level of abuse from drunken scum while trying to do their jobs. Trying to say that this beheavour is restricted to one section of society is just sticking your head in the sand and pretending it is not widespread. That solves nothing and says more about you than the actual problem.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I haven't been a 'kid' for over 40 years mate. So less of the patronising condescension please.

I am not all over the place at all - you just don't like being called on your bigotry.

Yes- people who act like this are scum. But scum are found in all socio-economic backgrounds among all sections of society but that doesn't fit your agenda of playing the lets blame one minority group card.

Tell the residents of College Road in Cork that the people who vomit, urinate and have sex in their gardens or against their front doors, kick their wheelie bins down the road, scream abuse (and in some cases worse) at college security and the emergency services every Rag Week are members of an ethnic minority and they will laugh in your face.
I assure you, the students who end up suspended every year due to acting like scum are very much from the well-heeled ethnic majority and mummy and daddy are invariably quick to respond with solicitors letters and threats of legal action when their little Emily and Jake are punished by University authorities for acting like scum. Should little Emily and Jake loose their 'privileges'? They rarely do and will end up becoming solicitors, teachers, engineers etc and fully paid up members of 'respectable' society with their 'youthful indiscretions' laughed off.

FFS - David Cameron, George Osborne and Borris Johnson were members of the Bullingdon Club at Oxford which is known for trashing restaurants, country houses and various public order offenses - do you really believe social class or membership of the ethnic majority means people don't act like drunken scum? Do you think such things don't happen in Ireland? I'm not sure if you are naive or blinded by your very obvious prejudice against one section of Irish society.

Take a walk though our inner cities any weekend night and see the scum in action and the abuse the gardaí have to take - are you trying to tell me they are all members of a specific ethnic minority? That's BS and you know it.

We have a serious problem with alcohol fueled violence in this country, we have serious law and order issues in this country. We have a situation where the Emergency services are under resourced and under valued and are forced to endure a completely unacceptable level of abuse from drunken scum while trying to do their jobs. Trying to say that this beheavour is restricted to one section of society is just sticking your head in the sand and pretending it is not widespread. That solves nothing and says more about you than the actual problem.

What have a few lads from England got to do with an issue down in Cork City??

Bannasidhe

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm not so sure that the laziness and untruthfulness Bannasidhe speaks of is'nt also somewhat evident in her own post ?

This thread is about the specific drowning incident and the significance of the actions of the group concerned,both at the scene,and more worryingly later on at the CU Hospital.

In these specific cases the "Drunken Hoons" just happened to be from the travelling fraternity,and behaved in a manner deemed serious enough for local Gardai to request assistance from the Regional Support Unit,a specialist unit not normally required for dealing with "ordinary" (dare I say,Middle Class) criminal events.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/emergency-crews-attacked-at-river-rescue-233806.html

Reports from the hospital appear to indicate the "drunken hoons" were intent on removing their friends body,and were prepared to use whatever force they felt necessary to achieve this.

I don't see any evidence of posters suggesting that "everyone else is completely and absolutely law abiding all the time".
However,to disregard the level and regularity of serious violent incidents involving this grouping smacks of the very laziness Bannasidhe proffesses to abhor,not to mention being equally useless at "solving" anything.

Did you miss the post that advocated that members of this minority group should be taken out and dropped from an airplane?

Did you miss the implications that all incidents of this nature are caused by members of one ethnic minority group?

That is what I was responding to.

When I lived in the UK 'those people' were the Irish - not travelers. Just 'Irish.' Due to the nature of my work I was often called to local police stations/hospitals to help deal with such situations and rarely were the 'Irish' involved from the Travelling Community. They were scum.

When I lived in Oz 'those people' were Aborigines. Mind, the Irish have a fairly shocking rep there too - can't blame that on the Travelers as few of them ever go to Oz on the one year visa.
My OH worked in an estate agent in Sydney which wouldn't rent to anyone Irish as so many properties had been trashed during drunken parties. Was that the fault of Travelers or is it an indication of a widespread problem with drunken scumbaggery within Irish society?
I personally witnessed a group of Irish lads trash a train, abuse passengers and attack the police officer who tried to get them off the train in Sydney's King Cross. They were not Travelers. They were scum who made me ashamed to be Irish for the first time in my life.

In this instance the scum were from the Traveling Community - but to extrapolate from that that all members of the Traveling community are scum and that all scum are members of the Traveling community is pure bigoted BS. That is what I am objecting to.

Plenty of scum come from the ethnic majority.

Bannasidhe

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

What have a few lads from England got to do with an issue down in Cork City??

Drunken scum exist everywhere.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Drunken scum exist everywhere.

Sorry but you are trying to defend an element of society that is cannot be defended as they bring it all on themselves. Also you are getting way to worked up over one throw away comment made in jest yesterday by another poster on here.

I would sooner take my chances with a few drunken middle or lower class lads on a night out than with a few of the ethnic minority you are trying to defend.

Bannasidhe

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Sorry but you are trying to defend an element of society that is cannot be defended as they bring it all on themselves. Also you are getting way to worked up over one throw away comment made in jest yesterday by another poster on here.

I would sooner take my chances with a few drunken middle or lower class lads on a night out than with a few of the ethnic minority you are trying to defend.

I would prefer not to have to take any chances with any drunken scum from any background and that anyone acting like drunken scum finds themselves in the drunk tank overnight and before a judge the next morning where they are all punished equally.

A kicking is a kicking regardless of the ethnicity or socio-economic background of the owner of the foot.

As for 'defend an element of society that is cannot be defended as they bring it all on themselves'- funny - I used to hear the police say that about the Irish in the UK. All 'respectable' people knew the Irish in the UK were drunken terrorists living off their dole back in the 80s. They found it hard to understand that I, a well educated non-drinker from a 'good' background with an 'important' job, could possibly be Irish.

Heard the same 'defend an element of society that is cannot be defended as they bring it all on themselves' from White Aussies about Aborigines too. Didn't stop them counting Olympic medals from Aborigines as 'Australian' just like Ireland was glad to count 'Traveler' Olympic medals as 'ours'.

up for anything

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I used to hear the police say that about the Irish in the UK. All 'respectable' people knew the Irish in the UK were drunken terrorists living off their dole back in the 80s. They found it hard to understand that I, a well educated non-drinker from a 'good' background with an 'important' job, could possibly be Irish.

Strange that. I lived in England during those same 80s 9(from '85 onwards) and never once experienced that sort of reaction and I mixed in all levels of society during my time there.

eireannBEAR

up for anything wrote: »

Strange that. I lived in England during those same 80s 9(from '85 onwards) and never once experienced that sort of reaction and I mixed in all levels of society during my time there.

your sir are an absolute shameful LIAR.

jimgoose

Bannasidhe wrote: »

...All 'respectable' people knew the Irish in the UK were drunken terrorists living off their dole back in the 80s. They found it hard to understand that I, a well educated non-drinker from a 'good' background with an 'important' job, could possibly be Irish...

You see, this is why I don't hang around with "respectable" people. They're forever coming out with dumb-assery like this.

OldNotWIse

cd07 wrote: »

Dunno if any of you heard that doctor on the ray darcy show today but he reckons society as it is is going to go bust soon and its **** like this that makes it seem very likely. What kind of ****ing vermin attack emergency crews anyway regardless of whether they knew what they were doing or not? ****ing animals

animals are coming out the better ones here tbh

Bannasidhe

up for anything wrote: »

Strange that. I lived in England during those same 80s 9(from '85 onwards) and never once experienced that sort of reaction and I mixed in all levels of society during my time there.

Really?
Did your job involve you being called to various police stations in London to deal with drunken Irish scum too? Perhaps we met. I was the one listening to senior officers telling me all about how terrible the Irish are.

Yes- we all felt the love and acceptance every time the RA set a bomb off - it was cuddle a Paddy day all round London with a 'there, there we know you aren't like them' love fest and charming welcoming graffitti where ever you looked. After Warrington it was like a special holiday camp for the Irish all over the UK.

Oh, I do miss all the lovely things the Daily Mail used to write about the Irish...happy days.

Dunno where you lived or who these all sections of society were (did you enjoy the Queen's Garden parties btw?) but some how I don't think it included Dalston Police Station or Paddington Magistrates court.

Bannasidhe

jimgoose wrote: »

You see, this is why I don't hang around with "respectable" people. They're forever coming out with dumb-assery like this.

Arn't they just.

Many of them even voted for Bertie Aherne and one an't get more dumb-assery than that.

eireannBEAR

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Really?
Did your job involve you being called to various police stations in London to deal with drunken Irish scum too? Perhaps we met. I was the one listening to senior officers telling me all about how terrible the Irish are.

Yes- we all felt the love and acceptance every time the RA set a bomb off - it was cuddle a Paddy day all round London with a 'there, there we know you aren't like them' love fest and charming welcoming graffitti where ever you looked. After Warrington it was like a special holiday camp for the Irish all over the UK.

Oh, I do miss all the lovely things the Daily Mail used to write about the Irish...happy days.

Dunno where you lived or who these all sections of society were (did you enjoy the Queen's Garden parties btw?) but some how I don't think it included Dalston Police Station or Paddington Magistrates court.

yes sure they held rallies to show their appreciation for us..lol all those lovely ''paddy go home signs'' oh and who can forget the heart warming but simple ''scum'' sign or the culturally valuable ''no blacks no dogs no irish'' signs. sure they loved and respected us why else would they do all that.

AlekSmart

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did you miss the post that advocated that members of this minority group should be taken out and dropped from an airplane?

Did you miss the implications that all incidents of this nature are caused by members of one ethnic minority group?

That is what I was responding to.

When I lived in the UK 'those people' were the Irish - not travelers. Just 'Irish.' Due to the nature of my work I was often called to local police stations/hospitals to help deal with such situations and rarely were the 'Irish' involved from the Travelling Community. They were scum.

When I lived in Oz 'those people' were Aborigines. Mind, the Irish have a fairly shocking rep there too - can't blame that on the Travelers as few of them ever go to Oz on the one year visa.

My OH worked in an estate agent in Sydney which wouldn't rent to anyone Irish as so many properties had been trashed during drunken parties. Was that the fault of Travelers or is it an indication of a widespread problem with drunken scumbaggery within Irish society?

I personally witnessed a group of Irish lads trash a train, abuse passengers and attack the police officer who tried to get them off the train in Sydney's King Cross. They were not Travelers. They were scum who made me ashamed to be Irish for the first time in my life.

In this instance the scum were from the Traveling Community - but to extrapolate from that that all members of the Traveling community are scum and that all scum are members of the Traveling community is pure bigoted BS. That is what I am objecting to.

Plenty of scum come from the ethnic majority.

I don't personally make those assumptions you speak of,and those that do,tend to do similar in relation to Bankers,Developers,Foreigners and Politicians,to name a few categories.

However,I would suggest that the level of such abberant behaviour is both higher,and of far more violent intent amongst the "ethnic" minority grouping you speak of.

Laneyh

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

The lad I am replying to is the one getting all hostile with me trying to defend an element of scummy behaviour.[/QUOTE

Everyone who has contributed to this thread is appalled by the behaviour of these individuals. I don't see anyone trying to justify scummy behaviour
a few have tried to explain it and others have attempted to get into the mindset

What is being challenged is your assertion that all trouble / scummy behaviour stems from one source only.

In reality lawlessness, scummy behaviour ,acts of violence and vandalism are present within many sectors of society and not the reserve of one age, class or ethnic / social group.

Admittedly this particular manifestation of thuggery ( attacking emergency workers) is not overly common and not an automatic part of yob culture
However, it does happen and it is not just perpetrated by members of the travelling community.

That's all really. I'm not asking you to like the travelling community or to try and break free from the blinkers of prejudice.

Even if you still contend that this kind of trouble is only created by a certain sector of society writing them off does not stand to benefit anyone.

If you're not surprised by their behaviour and you contribute more to society than they do - that's fab but how do you propose tackling the issues of anti-social behaviour, public disorder and interfering with emergency service workers?

worded

It's the 99% that give the 1% a bad name

up for anything

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Really?
Did your job involve you being called to various police stations in London to deal with drunken Irish scum too? Perhaps we met. I was the one listening to senior officers telling me all about how terrible the Irish are.

Yes- we all felt the love and acceptance every time the RA set a bomb off - it was cuddle a Paddy day all round London with a 'there, there we know you aren't like them' love fest and charming welcoming graffitti where ever you looked. After Warrington it was like a special holiday camp for the Irish all over the UK.

Oh, I do miss all the lovely things the Daily Mail used to write about the Irish...happy days.

Dunno where you lived or who these all sections of society were (did you enjoy the Queen's Garden parties btw?) but some how I don't think it included Dalston Police Station or Paddington Magistrates court.

No, I'm glad to say I managed to stay out of police stations and the same with Magistrates courts.

My work and social life brought me in contact with lots of people from different social classes both high and low - not quite the Queen's garden parties but close enough, and probably the lowest were a couple of brothers who ended up in various plastic bags - no loss to anyone except maybe their family. I can say quite categorically that I never had anyone shun me, insult me or look sideways at me because I was Irish. In fact, people used to fall over themselves to tell me what they thought were screamingly funny anecdotes of their wonderful holidays in Ireland or about Irish people that they knew. I realise that this may not have been everyone's experience but it was mine and that of the myriad other Irish people I knew while living there.

On the other hand, I've heard a lot of Irish people saying extremely nasty things about the British though.

I didn't miss the 'perhaps we met' crack but I'm far too noble to mention it. :pac:

eireannBEAR wrote: »

yes sure they held rallies to show their appreciation for us..lol all those lovely ''paddy go home signs'' oh and who can forget the heart warming but simple ''scum'' sign or the culturally valuable ''no blacks no dogs no irish'' signs. sure they loved and respected us why else would they do all that.

Those signs were not in evidence that I could see during my time there. Good thing I moved back here before I got my dog or I might have found it difficult to get accommodation for him as he is all three.

eireannBEAR wrote: »

your sir are an absolute shameful LIAR.

You must feel that you know me extremely well to be able to make such an unequivocal and libelous statement about me. :rolleyes: By the way, I'm not a sir.