"Ireland’s priests will have almost disappeared in 20 years"

SebBerkovich

Well it turns out the Catholic Church has discovered the lost art of basic mathematics.

In this article a priest points out the interesting fact that: an institution consisting of backward old men pretending to be celibate is attracting new young people about as well as the EDL is in attracting new Muslim members.

Not enough Irish people are joining the priesthood to replace those priests retiring/serving prison time/being hidden away from authorities.

Once a lifetime of hiding peodfiles and/or abusing children without consequence was apparently quite appealing to the irish youth (the RCC presumes).
But without new people joining - in 20 years there won't be enough priests to perform all the priesting stuff we so desperately need... it's gonna be tough, but i think i might be able to get through these dark days.

seamus

They'll import a lot of priests from African and Asian nations to try fill the void, but this will lead to fracturing of the structure in Ireland into various sub-sects which the increasingly ambivalent population will no longer identify with.

The next twenty years will certainly be interesting - the "cultural catholic" will still exist and be looking for churches to satisfy their traditions but the churches will be increasingly devout and turning away the cultural catholics.

I don't believe the decline of the priesthood is a reflection of the paedophile scandal as much as it is the realisation that you are not bound by cultural norms or what your parents want for you. And also that being a priest sucks. The priesthood was previously seen as one of the top-tier occupations, like being the local politician or doctor. And in many cases it was a requirement of you because you were born as the nth son. This nth son requirement is gone, and the priest has lost practically all power outside of small rural villages, so it present basically nothing attractive to young people as an occupation. You get to be unpaid and celibate for the rest of your life. Sign me up...

There is a relatively large African and Polish contingent in Ireland who will likely displace the Irish as the main adherents of christianity (in actual terms, not in cultural terms).

Sarky

It's going to be a fun ride, watching all the schisms and lamentation and financial scandals from those crazy god-will-send-you-money sects and the like.

Probably with moments of horrible unpleasantness as people use religion to justify some horrible things, but that's hardly new. Overall, I think the cynics among us are in for a treat so stock up on popcorn.

PopePalpatine

seamus wrote: »

They'll import a lot of priests from African and Asian nations to try fill the void, but this will lead to fracturing of the structure in Ireland into various sub-sects which the increasingly ambivalent population will no longer identify with.

Someone in one of the stickied threads (either "Funny Side of Religion" or "Hazards of Belief") said something along the lines of: the most hardcore adherents are probably strongly racist, and will not take kindly to an African priest.

ad83

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Well it turns out the Catholic Church has discovered the lost art of basic mathematics.

In this article a priest points out the interesting fact that: an institution consisting of backward old men pretending to be celibate is attracting new young people about as well as the EDL is in attracting new Muslim members.

Not enough Irish people are joining the priesthood to replace those priests retiring/serving prison time/being hidden away from authorities.

Once a lifetime of hiding peodfiles and/or abusing children without consequence was apparently quite appealing to the irish youth (the RCC presumes).
But without new people joining - in 20 years there won't be enough priests to perform all the priesting stuff we so desperately need... it's gonna be tough, but i think i might be able to get through these dark days.

I seriously hope so. Why does this even get reported by mainstream media.

It never fails to astonish me how sensitive and respectful we all have to be to practicing catholics whilst it is not recipricated.

What annoys me even more who think allowing women to be priests will solve the "problem". I dont think anyone should be a priest

SebBerkovich

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Someone in one of the stickied threads (either "Funny Side of Religion" or "Hazards of Belief") said something along the lines of: the most hardcore adherents are probably strongly racist, and will not take kindly to an African priest.

Not sure i've ever noticed a link between strongly adherent catholics and racism, certainly people of later generations have a tendency to being a little racist. They also tend be adherent catholics but in my experience i haven't noticed someone's faith making them racist*

Then again i wouldn't be too surprised if there was some evidence for it.

*except Mormons.... they've got some crazy lies going on about black people.

MadYaker

If priests were allowed to get married and have families it would do a lot to solve this problem. But to be honest I welcome the demise of the catholic church in Ireland.

Gbear

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Not sure i've ever noticed a link between strongly adherent catholics and racism, certainly people of later generations have a tendency to being a little racist. They also tend be adherent catholics but in my experience i haven't noticed someone's faith making them racist*

Then again i wouldn't be too surprised if there was some evidence for it.

*except Mormons.... they've got some crazy lies going on about black people.

I'd say it's not a causal link but religiosity and racism are both negatively correlated with education and wealth.

The latter two go up, the former 2 go down.

PopePalpatine

Gbear wrote: »

I'd say it's not a causal link but religiosity and racism are both negatively correlated with education and wealth.

The latter two go up, the former 2 go down.

I was thinking more about the link between the right wing and religion.

robindch

PopePalpatine wrote: »

[...] the link between the right wing and religion.

Bob Altemeyer's "The Authoritarians", available as a PDF from here:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Ignore the scrappy formatting, the content is fascinating. Here's the introduction:

Bob Altemeyer wrote:

[...] take the following statement: “Once our government leaders and the authorities condemn the dangerous elements in our society, it will be the duty of every patriotic citizen to help stomp out the rot that is poisoning our country from within.” Sounds like something Hitler would say, right? Want to guess how many politicians, how many lawmakers in the United States agreed with it? Want to guess what they had in common?

Or how about a government program that persecutes political parties, or minorities, or journalists the authorities do not like, by putting them in jail, even torturing and killing them. Nobody would approve of that, right? Guess again.

Don’t think for a minute this doesn’t concern you personally. Let me ask you, as we’re passing the time here, how many ordinary people do you think an evil authority would have to order to kill you before he found someone who would, unjustly, out of sheer obedience, just because the authority said to? What sort of person is most likely to follow such an order? What kind of official is most likely to give that order, if it suited his purposes? Look at what experiments tell us, as I did.

If, on the other hand, you’re way ahead of me, and believe the extreme right-wing elements in America are poised to take it over, permanently, I think you can still get a lot from this book. The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank and file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?

I think you’ll find this book “explains a lot.” Many scattered impressions about the enemies of freedom and equality become solidified by science and coherently connected here.

You think I’m pulling your leg? Click the link.

Kidchameleon

I think its a shame, there's some great priests out there. Not all of them are peodos, in fact I believe its quite a small percentage.

Pherekydes

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I think its a shame, there's some great priests out there. Not all of them are peodos, in fact I believe its quite a small percentage.

You are quite right. Would you consider becoming a priest yourself?

My parents wanted one of us to become a priest, but despite their strong Catholicism none of their offspring were even slightly religious. I was the one earmarked for it, being seen as "goodytwoshoes" in the family, but I always hated all that religious ceremonial tedium. Besides, why would a heterosexual male spend his life depriving himself of women? That aspect always baffled me.

Kidchameleon

Pherekydes wrote: »

You are quite right. Would you consider becoming a priest yourself?

Dont think so. Not unless I get some unexplained calling!

smcgiff

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Not unless I get some unexplained calling!

I refer you to post 12.

Pherekydes wrote: »

Would you consider becoming a priest yourself?

What? You were expecting voices in your head.

Best of luck now.

robindch

Pherekydes wrote: »

Besides, why would a heterosexual male spend his life depriving himself of women?

I'm not fully sure all of them did.

Shenshen

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I think its a shame, there's some great priests out there. Not all of them are peodos, in fact I believe its quite a small percentage.

"Say there's 200 million priests in the world, and 5% of them are paedophiles, that's still only 10 million."

Kidchameleon

smcgiff wrote: »

What? You were expecting voices in your head.

Best of luck now.

Who said anything about voices in ones head? Wasn't me anyhow. Your better off asking a priest why he chose the preisthood. Some will say it was a "calling" but that doesn't necessarily mean they were hearing voices.

Kidchameleon

Shenshen wrote: »

"Say there's 200 million priests in the world, and 5% of them are paedophiles, that's still only 10 million."

Actually I'd be interested in seeing real figures on that. Does anyone know of any sources where one could find number of priests / number of convicted pedophiles in the priesthood. Would be an interesting read.

Penn

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Actually I'd be interested in seeing real figures on that. Does anyone know of any sources where one could find number of priests / number of convicted pedophiles in the priesthood. Would be an interesting read.

I don't think an accurate number is possible. In many cases, accused priests died before being found guilty or innocent, seeing as how most of the abuse reported were historical cases.

The number is fairly irrelevant though. One paedophile priest is one too many.

robindch

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Actually I'd be interested in seeing real figures on that. Does anyone know of any sources where one could find number of priests / number of convicted pedophiles in the priesthood. Would be an interesting read.

It's been debated at length in the Ongoing Scandals thread.

In short, the figures from multiple countries show that, depending on the source, the period measured, the degree of confidence, the nature of the convictions and allegations, and so on, between 2% and 10% of catholic priests are either convicted pedophiles or priests who've had credible allegations made against them.

The best estimate I've seen of that number in Ireland is around 6.5%, or about one priest in every fifteen. There are plausible reasons to believe that this estimate is on the low side, but it's difficult or impossible to know exactly by how much. The one in fifteen estimate is derived from the various judicial inquiries into residential and clerical abuse, and it's corroborated by figures released by the church itself.

Sarky

robindch wrote: »

The best estimate I've seen of that number in Ireland is around 6.5%

Oh no, you said it. I have the feeling something terrible is about to happen.

Delirium

Sarky wrote: »

Oh no, you said it. I have the feeling something terrible is about to happen.

it's never Beetlejuice:(

Galvasean

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I think its a shame, there's some great priests out there. Not all of them are peodos, in fact I believe its quite a small percentage.

They can still be great people without being priests you know...

jimd2

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Well it turns out the Catholic Church has discovered the lost art of basic mathematics.

In this article a priest points out the interesting fact that: an institution consisting of backward old men pretending to be celibate is attracting new young people about as well as the EDL is in attracting new Muslim members.

Not enough Irish people are joining the priesthood to replace those priests retiring/serving prison time/being hidden away from authorities.

Once a lifetime of hiding peodfiles and/or abusing children without consequence was apparently quite appealing to the irish youth (the RCC presumes).
But without new people joining - in 20 years there won't be enough priests to perform all the priesting stuff we so desperately need... it's gonna be tough, but i think i might be able to get through these dark days.

Considering the poor state of the Catholic Church (as you and others see it) I wonder why you continue to be so obsessed with it?

You are an atheist and so why do you give a sh!t about anything to do with the church? Yet you are sufficiently interested (or obsessed more like) that you have to go on to an atheists forum and repeat your various obsessive rants about the church to an audience that is essentially an open door and agree with everything you say!

Of course the various child abuse issues were horrendous but you and your ilk would like to believe and portray that ALL or almost all priests behaved like that.

If you want to debate the future lack of priests why dont you go on to the Christianity forum and have a discussion there?

If I go on to the soccer forum I dont see the regulars slagging off the GAA or rugby every few threads, likewise with the other special interest forums. In fact the A&A forum is possibly the forum that is most obsessed with an organisation that they profess to have nothing to do with or believe in.

I suggest, instead of staying in on a nice day like yesterday and starting threads like this that you could have been out enjoying the nice weather or perhaps starting threads discussing your own beliefs or philosophies that you do have. Maybe that is too much to ask.

Realtivity

An effective solution to the fall off in vocations to the priesthood.

Ban alcohol sponsorship in sport and let the RCC do it instead. Change the name of the "Heineken Cup" to the "Blessed Eucharist Cup".

Thousands of young people will pour into mass and binge on holy communion
thereby filling themselves with "Sanctifying Grace" and an incurable desire to join the priesthood.

PopePalpatine

jimd2 wrote: »

If I go on to the soccer forum I dont see the regulars slagging off the GAA or rugby every few threads, likewise with the other special interest forums. In fact the A&A forum is possibly the forum that is most obsessed with an organisation that they profess to have nothing to do with or believe in.

Have the GAA, the IRFU or the FAI demanded that their rules apply to golfers, cricketers, or racing drivers?

the_syco

seamus wrote: »

They'll import a lot of priests from African

There were one or two black priests when I was in the local church sometime last year (t'was a funeral), so this seems to be the way forward.

SebBerkovich wrote: »

*except Mormons.... they've got some crazy lies going on about black people.

I know two Mormons; they're both coloured.

robindch wrote: »

it's corroborated by figures released by the church itself.

Seeing at how good they are at moving them around, I'd consider the number to be on the low side if the church agrees with the number...

jimd2 wrote: »

You are an atheist and so why do you give a sh!t about anything to do with the church?

When you have kids you'll find out that they'll have to be christened to get into most of the local schools. Sure there's a few non-denominational schools around Ireland now, but that's only a fairly recent thing.

And I'm sure many more will continue the rant why.

Kidchameleon

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Have the GAA, the IRFU or the FAI demanded that their rules apply to golfers, cricketers, or racing drivers?

The Church is highly influential alright but they have no authority to demand anything. Its it the government that the people* elect that make the decisions.

*people who are every day becoming less and less religious

Kidchameleon

the_syco wrote: »

When you have kids you'll find out that they'll have to be christened to get into most of the local schools. Sure there's a few non-denominational schools around Ireland now, but that's only a fairly recent thing.

Again, its the government who is to blame for this. The church is highly influential of course I'm not denying that but at the end of the day they are not making the decisions.

Sarky

jimd2 wrote: »

Of course the various child abuse issues were horrendous but you and your ilk would like to believe and portray that ALL or almost all priests behaved like that.

ARE horrendous, jim. They haven't gone away, and they haven't stopped being f*cking despicable.

robindch

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The Church is highly influential alright but they have no authority to demand anything.

Have you ever had a chance to seen the inside of a school at any point since the founding of the state?