Protesters smash Windscreen of Minister Hogan Car, protesters to complain!

The Bishop Basher

mike65 wrote: »

Grand so, sleep the sleep of the just.

Now ye have it...

Corkbah

Deleted User wrote: »

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, the current Government was democratically elected. The THUGS who vandalised his car are just thugs, who speak for no one other than themselves - if they are able to speak at all. Vandalism and criminal damage is NEVER acceptable. I have pointed out that there are too many TD's Senators and Councillors and that they are paid too much, so, yes, I have found fault!

I agree with you - there are correct ways of demonstrating and this was not one of them, however, I've seen various ministers over the years make promises and then when they cannot or do not come through for those people they simply ignore them and hope they go away - sometimes they will make an appointment to "listen" to the people ...but after the meeting they carry on as if nothing had happened, ignoring the various different families pleas for help.

we have far too many politicians in this country and far too much pub politics, should the seanad be abolished .... I think no, it should be reformed.... made up of non-political appointees people from different sectors of society....ask yourself - why do our politicians want rid of the seanad ? what is the role of the seanad? I've always understood that the seanad were to oversee the politicians ....if you take away the people watching them ...god knows what our politicians will get upto !!

Corkbah

Phoebas wrote: »

There is a vast difference between questioning / opposing something / non conformance and resorting to violence.

I agree - but its difficult to get someone's attention when they consistently ignore you and use the resources at their disposal to protect themselves from engaging with "the people"

there are not a lot of politicians around who can claim to be "one of the people"

The Bishop Basher

Phoebas wrote: »

There is a vast difference between questioning / opposing something / non conformance and resorting to violence.

When questioning an opposing has been tried and failed over and over ad nauseum. What do you suggest then ?

And while I'm not condoning violence, it's impossible to deny that it has often been the only route to affect change when you have the rich and powerful wielding their influence over the poor to their detriment.

Anyway it's far too nice a day for this. I'm off to spend my family home tax on a pint and a couple of horses.

Phoebas

Corkbah wrote: »

I agree - but its difficult to get someone's attention when they consistently ignore you and use the resources at their disposal to protect themselves from engaging with "the people"

I can't even begin to understand how attacking Minister Hogan in his car is going to increase his engagement with the people. It'll more likely have the opposite effect.

Regardless, it isn't an acceptable form of political 'engagement'.

Phoebas

Swanner wrote: »

When questioning an opposing has been tried and failed over and over ad nauseum. What do you suggest then ?

Kick them out at the next election and replace them with someone who agrees with you.
(And if that fails, just accept that you have lost the argument and suck it up).

bmaxi

Deleted User wrote: »

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, the current Government was democratically elected. The THUGS who vandalised his car are just thugs, who speak for no one other than themselves - if they are able to speak at all. Vandalism and criminal damage is NEVER acceptable. I have pointed out that there are too many TD's Senators and Councillors and that they are paid too much, so, yes, I have found fault!

The fact they were democratically elected only shows that democracy is ill served. They were elected on a manifesto which they then proceeded to deny and renege upon.
Politics and politicians are dirtier than the soles of the people's shoes, they deserve no respect from the people because they show none. Noblesse Oblige, my arse.

yara

Corkbah wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with you - there are correct ways of demonstrating and this was not one of them

so are you going to tell us about more correct ways of protesting seeing as you can say unequivocally that's this is wrong

Phoebas

yara wrote: »

so are you going to tell us about more correct ways of protesting seeing as you can say unequivocally that's this is wrong

You can't figure that one out for yourself?

Galwayguy35

Nothing wrong with protesting but smashing windscreens is a bit skangerish tbh.

While most people who protest are reasonable taxpayers a lot of protests attract a minority of scummers who just want to cause trouble.

yara

Phoebas wrote: »

You can't figure that one out for yourself?

no because i've organised a few protests, attended even more with each and every single one of them being described as complete failures, sometimes long before they happen by people who seem to have a problem with everything, i wish they could all organise their own brilliant protests that are so perfect they can criticise everyone else's so confidently

yara

yara wrote: »

no because i've organised a few protests, attended even more with each and every single one of them being described as complete failures, sometimes long before they happen by people who seem to have a problem with everything, i wish they could all organise their own brilliant protests that are so perfect they can criticise everyone else's so confidently

Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track. No matter who is in charge, harsh tactics are called for. We cannot continue to borrow for day to day living. Decisions were taken, for better or worse, in the best interests of Ireland. We are not alone suffering from austerity.
People have the right to peaceful protest, not to cause criminal damage to anothers property.

ecowise2

Phoebas wrote: »

There is a vast difference between questioning / opposing something / non conformance and resorting to violence.

What about resorting to threats like Fiasco Phil did with regard to the property tax, does that count ?

Violence is wrong, but lets remember the car was parked on the protester's foot and Hogan refused to move it until a woman opened the door and pleaded with him to cop on and move the car back off the man's foot. I think you'd be pounding on a windscreen too if you foot was trapped and they refused to move the car off it.

Does Enda saying that to tax a person's home was both immoral and unjust still count ? Or like all liars, do they make their morals up as they go along ?

ecowise2

ecowise2 wrote: »

Violence is wrong, but lets remember the car was parked on the protester's foot and Hogan refused to move it until a woman opened the door and pleaded with him to cop on and move the car back off the man's foot.

Not what was reported in any news reports I've seen. If they get close enough to try to overturn a vehicle, they must be prepared to accept the consequences. Mindless vandalism has no place in peaceful protest.

Lapin

View wrote: »

Ah well, no doubt the tax-payer will have to pay for the bill for the windscreen repair, the court appearance of the accused and the Garda Ombudsman investigation.

With "victories" like this, who needs "defeats"?

We'll probably have to pay for medical treatment for yer man's fist as well.

It takes some serious effort to smash a windsreeen with bare hands.
I reckon he feels the pain today.

Corkbah

Phoebas wrote: »

I can't even begin to understand how attacking Minister Hogan in his car is going to increase his engagement with the people. It'll more likely have the opposite effect.

Regardless, it isn't an acceptable form of political 'engagement'.

Dont get me wrong - I'm not justifying what happened .... just highlighting the difficulty that people face when trying to engage politicians ...the politicians live in their own bubble and ignore "the plebs"

Corkbah

Corkbah wrote: »

Dont get me wrong - I'm not justifying what happened .... just highlighting the difficulty that people face when trying to engage politicians ...the politicians live in their own bubble and ignore "the plebs"

Why the Hell should ANYONE, let alone Politicians 'engage' with mindless vandals?

Weevil

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track. No matter who is in charge, harsh tactics are called for. We cannot continue to borrow for day to day living. Decisions were taken, for better or worse, in the best interests of Ireland. We are not alone suffering from austerity.
People have the right to peaceful protest, not to cause criminal damage to anothers property.

Do you address Phat Phil as Minister Hogan in your day job. I ask this because only someone paid to do so would make such a statement without a smirk of sarcasm.

Weevil

Weevil wrote: »

Do you address Phat Phil as Minister Hogan in your day job. I ask this because only someone paid to do so would make such a statement without a smirk of sarcasm.

Do you not want Ireland to be prosperous again? Thinking positive is much better than negativity. I've no loyalty to any political party. My loyalty lies with Ireland, a great little country and the only place in the World I want to live.

Hootanany

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with protesting but smashing windscreens is a bit skangerish tbh.

While most people who protest are reasonable taxpayers a lot of protests attract a minority of scummers who just want to cause trouble.

The car was on the Mans foot that why he smashed the screen.

Cody Pomeray

Deleted User wrote: »

We cannot continue to borrow for day to day living.

Oh God. Pure guff.

All funds go into the same pot. Outside of exceptional periods of economic instability, it is impossible to say whether borrowed funds are spent on current or on capital projects. I don't think anybody denies that it is perfectly acceptable to borrow for capital projects within agreed sustainability parameters, and often it is also acceptable to borrow for current spending; so what you're saying here is effectively nonsense.

The important question is the amount we borrow; silly lines like the above, which you might as well have lifted from the government press office website, are not particularly illuminating, it seems like it's either (i) spin or (ii) words for the sake of words tbh.

Weevil

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not want Ireland to be prosperous again? Thinking positive is much better than negativity. I've no loyalty to any political party. My loyalty lies with Ireland, a great little country and the only place in the World I want to live.

There's a big difference between positivity and bullsh!t. Here's what you said:

"Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track."

Positivity or Bullsh!t?

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track. No matter who is in charge, harsh tactics are called for. We cannot continue to borrow for day to day living. Decisions were taken, for better or worse, in the best interests of Ireland. We are not alone suffering from austerity.
People have the right to peaceful protest, not to cause criminal damage to anothers property.

But it is not the 'simple fact'!

The majority of Ireland are very much dissatisfied with the current govt, and how it is ruining running the country.

Three-quarters of voters are dissatisfied with the way the Government is running the country, according to the poll, which has found a shocking level of disillusionment among the public.


A massive 75 per cent say they are dissatisfied and less that one-in-five (17 per cent) is satisfied with Fine Gael and Labour's implementation of austerity measures.

In the Sunday Independent today, Paul Moran, associate director of Millward Brown, writes: "Many are beyond being disaffected – they feel disenfranchised."


In an analysis of the public mood, Mr Moran writes: "What is worrying for the Government is that this disaffection with their policies spans the generational divide. It is not a knee-jerk reaction from any particular cohort – the malaise is widespread across all ages."


Negative sentiment towards the Government has only been surpassed during one period in the modern history of opinion polls – the dying days of the Fianna Fail/Greens administration. Even during the GUBU days of the 1980s, Government support held up more firmly.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shock-poll-75-per-cent-despair-of-government-29194711.html

Weevil wrote: »

There's a big difference between positivity and bullsh!t. Here's what you said:

"Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track."

Positivity or Bullsh!t?

Judge for yourself. 75% of unhappy voters.

emo72

guys, im involved in retail, and every few months when things are bad I say to myself "well at least things can't get any worse". well things do get worse, the local economy is dead. i mean really dead.

its being nose diving for about 5 years. now most people have yet to actually start paying property tax and then in january water tax will kick in with A FULL YEARS PROPERTY TAX. there is hardly any money now. there will be less next year. where is the growth supposed to come from?

there needs to be a revolutionary idea from our government, because this sure isn't working.

remember, i think a big point that people are missing is that those guys aren't all looney lefties. it will be the likes of me who wants to contribute to society and provide jobs and make a society good for everyone. everyone should have a chance to make a life for themselves. I will consider it my duty to go out and confront people who are destroying our country while they smirk and grin and patronise us. my family is starting to scatter all around the world, good hardworking nephews and nieces gone to australia to try make a living. these are not "lifestyle choices".

when i look at the likes of noonan and shatter and hogan, they really should try to tone down the smugness. someone will snap.



a bit of positive thinking really isn't going to help at all. I am actually starting to get scared about what might happen over here. really scared. i see no solution to what is going on. positive thinking my arse

Corkbah

Deleted User wrote: »

Why the Hell should ANYONE, let alone Politicians 'engage' with mindless vandals?

I'm talking about BEFORE these people turn to violence ... the politicians often ignore the people that voted them in (unless they - the politician- have a vested interest, if the person seeking help has political or family connection to ANY other politician or the person has a business in the area)

I'm not advocating this violence - just saying that the politicians do not engage the people UNLESS it suits them (12-18 months before the next election we'll see politicians turning up to everything that public opinion is on)

have you seen a politician actual go door to door canvassing or engaging with the public in the last number of years .... I haven't !...have you seen one (in the papers) go on a junket to a foreign country in the name of representing OUR country ... I have !! and I have seen the amount of money spent and the people brought with them....huge waste of money in my opinion.

if this country is so f*cked .... why dont ALL politicians stop foreign travel in an effort to save spending, many other European ministers dont attend brussels they attend meetings via video link and stay in their own country because its more important to fix their own country than to fly over for a meeting where (in general) nothing is agreed except that another meeting on the matter must be scheduled.

ecowise2

emo72 wrote: »

positive thinking my arse

Nothing wrong with positive thinking, but the causes of the financial problems still have not been addressed and it looks like they never will. Just like FF before them, FG/Lab think they can bully, bullshyte, cut and tax the country out of recession, dealing only with the symptoms and never the cause.

hfallada

ecowise2 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with positive thinking, but the causes of the financial problems still have not been addressed and it looks like they never will. Just like FF before them, FG/Lab think they can bully, bullshyte, cut and tax the country out of recession, dealing only with the symptoms and never the cause.

The country would have been bankrupted with cuts and tax increase. The cause of the balance deficit is the massive welfare and public sector labour costs. Which people dont want to touch

Ireland isnt the only country in the world under going austerity. Its a global crisis

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

The labour manifesto called for a property tax. The FG one didn't.

Labour +1

Lol.

That's what the politicians will be telling us on our doorsteps come election time "it was all Labour's idea, blame them for the LPT"

FG scrapped the exemptions Labour proposed funny enough.

Oh, and what about rising USC for high earners Labour proposed?

FG +1

Getting back to the topic. Smashing a car windscreen (tax payers car, not Phil Hogans) is pointless and quite simply indefensible.

In saying that though, the level of outrage is increasing, I predict things are going to heat up further.

When will the government start listening to the people?

username123

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track.

lol, this is the most deluded statement Ive ever seen on boards.ie.

Seriously, even in the 80s when things were awful, I do not remember this level of vitriol towards the government by ordinary people. People are very very angry. Its no surprise that Bully Boy Phil has incited violence in protestors, a more hated individual would be hard to find with his disrespect for the people who elected him and his use of the media to issue threats to the electorate all the while refusing to pay his own management fees on his golf apartment in the sun. A more disgusting hypocritical individual would be difficult to find.

ecowise2

hfallada wrote: »

The country would have been bankrupted with cuts and tax increase. The cause of the balance deficit is the massive welfare and public sector labour costs. Which people dont want to touch

Funny how we managed for 90 years with welfare and public services. No mention of the 300 billion of money borrowed for the next 40 years by the state and paid to private bondholders for private bankers and private developers and SCAMA. How about touching that ? How about touching the 2 billion being paid in legal fees to a few private Dublin legal firms for SCAMA ? Any word of cutting that at all ? No, didn't think so . . .

hfallada wrote: »

Ireland isnt the only country in the world under going austerity. Its a global crisis

"It was Lehman brothers that done it" - lol

Is that why Ireland is called one of the PIIGS ? One of the five most corruptly governed countries in the EU, with the most protected Golden circle.