Protesters smash Windscreen of Minister Hogan Car, protesters to complain!

mike65 · 07-06-2013 6:11pm #1

You couldn't make it up so I won't

A man has been arrested in Athlone, Co Westmeath after the windscreen of the Environment Minister's car was smashed during a protest this afternoon.

It is understood a number of people protesting at Phil Hogan's visit to Athlone library surrounded the car the Minister was travelling in- as it was leaving a car park.

A spokesperson for the Ministers office has told Shannonside news that a crowd of people surrounded the car and were rocking it, before one man smashed the windscreen with his fist.

John McNamara from the 'The Peoples Voice' political group who were protesting at today's event said that they will be bringing today's incident to the attention of the Garda Ombudsman's.

"We were slowing the car down to make our point, the car drove dangerously at out protesters," he said.

"We will be bringing this to the garda ombudsman because it is an outrageous situation."

Ya lucky Big Phil didn't get out and tax you around the ear with a folder! Seriously though the cheek of these upstart agitators is quite something to behold.

The Bishop Basher · 07-06-2013 6:16pm

A bit cheeky of them to complain but I couldn't condemn their actions. This government haven't listened to anything the people have had to say and sooner or later more direct action will be required. If this is the start of it then I welcome it.

Con Logue · 07-06-2013 6:24pm

So, someone's car gets vandalised while moving and then a complaint is made to the Garda Ombudsman that the driver drove defensively. I take it that vandalism is now supposed to be consequence free?

hfallada · 07-06-2013 6:28pm

It amazes me what goes through these peoples head. Like do they think by smacking his car than he can turn the economy around and reverse cut backs.

View · 07-06-2013 6:40pm

Ah well, no doubt the tax-payer will have to pay for the bill for the windscreen repair, the court appearance of the accused and the Garda Ombudsman investigation.

With "victories" like this, who needs "defeats"?

BluntGuy · 08-06-2013 1:56am

Swanner wrote: »

A bit cheeky of them to complain but I couldn't condemn their actions. This government haven't listened to anything the people have had to say and sooner or later more direct action will be required. If this is the start of it then I welcome it.

So you think smashing someone's windscreen is acceptable?

yara · 08-06-2013 10:23am

BluntGuy wrote: »

So you think smashing someone's windscreen is acceptable?

in some instances is seems it is

http://cork.studenty.me/2012/02/23/gas-turns-to-glass-during-rossport-incident/

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 10:52am

BluntGuy wrote: »

So you think smashing someone's windscreen is acceptable?

Under normal circumstances of course not. But these are not normal times. We have had successive governments working in direct opposition to both the will and the good of the people while continuing to make significant personal gains in the form of inflated salaries and pensions. If it takes a few broken windows to help them see this then I have no issue. Peaceful democracy hasn't worked so why not notch it up a gear.

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 10:56am

Swanner wrote: »

Peaceful democracy hasn't worked so why not notch it up a gear.

If you can't win your argument at the ballot box, time to reach for the Armalite, eh?

ecowise2 · 08-06-2013 11:04am

Was the car not parked on his foot, and Hogan refused to move it until a woman opened the car door and told Hogan and the driver to cop on and move the car back ?

Fiasco Phil is a cowardly bully boy. Bullies all get what they deserve sooner or later.

ecowise2 · 08-06-2013 11:18am

Curly Judge wrote: »

Whatever your opinion of Minister Hogan he was elected democratically at the last election.

Violence, threat and intimidation is wrong

Let's face it, it's not as if Fiasco Phil is above using threat and intimidation.

Fiasco Phil doesn't have to resort to violence, just threats.

Where was the democratic vote on the household charge to pay off private billionaires debts at the expense of ordinary people ?

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 11:18am

Eh lets not get carried away with ourselves here. It was a broken windscreen. Armalites and hand grenades ?? Dramatic much ??

DanWall · 08-06-2013 11:25am

If he was democratically elected, why does he not listen to the people who elected him?

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 11:30am

DanWall wrote: »

If he was democratically elected, why does he not listen to the people who elected him?

IMO FG lost their mandate when they renaged on the manifesto on which they were elected. If they were little lies you could overlook it. But they were big juicy ones on issues that directly affect our pockets like burning bond holders and implementing the tax on family homes.

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 11:31am

ecowise2 wrote: »

Where was the democratic vote on the household charge to pay off private billionaires debts at the expense of ordinary people ?

It was in the Dail.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=19980&CatID=87

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 11:35am

Swanner wrote: »

IMO FG lost their mandate when they renaged on the manifesto on which they were elected.

They weren't elected on their manifesto. The people in their wisdom decided not to give them an overall majority, but chose coalition government, with all the horse trading and compromise that entails.

How this links back to a justification for a violent attack on someone is lost on me.

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 11:45am

Phoebas wrote: »

They weren't elected on their manifesto. The people in their wisdom decided not to give them an overall majority, but chose coalition government, with all the horse trading and compromise that entails.

How this links back to a justification for a violent attack on someone is lost on me.

Yes they were. They made promises in order to gain votes. They got those votes and are now in government. Then they broke those promises.

And as for the wisdom of the people in voting for a coalition ?? You're having a laugh surely. Name one instance where labour have manged to force FG's hand on a policy making decisions in relation to bond holders and the Family Home Tax ?

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 11:48am

Swanner wrote: »

Name one instance where labour have manged to force FG's hand on a policy making decisions in relation to bond holders and the Family Home Tax ?

The labour manifesto called for a property tax. The FG one didn't.

Labour +1

08-06-2013 11:53am

DanWall wrote: »

If he was democratically elected, why does he not listen to the people who elected him?

He is. Over 90% of people have registered for LPT. http://blogs.myhome.ie/2013/05/30/over-90-return-property-tax-forms/

Le_Dieux · 08-06-2013 12:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He is. Over 90% of people have registered for LPT. http://blogs.myhome.ie/2013/05/30/over-90-return-property-tax-forms/[/QUOTE]

Maryanne, please answer me one question: Is there ANYTHING You cant find fault with in this bunch of thuggish liars for a government?

This thread is about BFP in his car yesterday, what the hell has it got to do with your pr exercise of promoting that accursed lpt???

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 12:29pm

Phoebas wrote: »

The labour manifesto called for a property tax. The FG one didn't.

Labour +1

Hardly a victory for labour. It went through because FG didn't have the balls to stand up to Europe and say no. FG call the shots and you know it.

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 12:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He is. Over 90% of people have registered for LPT. http://blogs.myhome.ie/2013/05/30/over-90-return-property-tax-forms/

Even if those figures are true and I would have my doubts, how many of them are actually registered and how many are spoiled ? I know I've registered but have no intention of paying up. I accept that they will eventually dip into my salary and take it at source but I'm not meekly handing it over like some stooge.

jhegarty · 08-06-2013 12:32pm

DanWall wrote: »

If he was democratically elected, why does he not listen to the people who elected him?

You will have a chance to kick him out at the next election.

mike65 · 08-06-2013 12:35pm

Swanner wrote: »

Even if those figures are true and I would have my doubts, how many of them are actually registered and how many are spoiled ? I know I've registered but have no intention of paying up. I accept that they will eventually dip into my salary and take it at source but I'm not meekly handing it over like some stooge.

So you will pay more to make a point about a tax you don't want to pay. Well done you.

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 12:39pm

mike65 wrote: »

So you will pay more to make a point about a tax you don't want to pay. Well done you.

I'll sleep soundly at night safe in the knowledge that I stood by my principals. Yes, we'll done me.

mike65 · 08-06-2013 12:40pm

Grand so, sleep the sleep of the just.

BluntGuy · 08-06-2013 12:40pm

Swanner wrote: »

Under normal circumstances of course not. But these are not normal times.

"Under normal circumstances"... what guff.

So you think smashing someone's windscreen is acceptable?

Your answer is: "yes, I think it's okay to smash someone's windscreen".

I disagree and I don't care for your little caveat of "circumstances" which are arbitrarily defined.

We have had successive governments working in direct opposition to both the will and the good of the people while continuing to make significant personal gains in the form of inflated salaries and pensions. If it takes a few broken windows to help them see this then I have no issue.

So your two step plan to political reform:

-> Break some windows.

-> Government reduces "inflated salaries and pensions".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

Peaceful democracy hasn't worked so why not notch it up a gear.

You suggest this as though it's a novel idea.

It's amazing how many people throughout history have decided violence is a better means to get what they want.

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 12:45pm

Swanner wrote: »

Hardly a victory for labour. It went through because FG didn't have the balls to stand up to Europe and say no. FG call the shots and you know it.

So let me get this straight. You say that FG call the shots, except that they don't - Europe calls the shots? Even when they are implementing something from the Labour manifesto.

08-06-2013 12:46pm

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

He is. Over 90% of people have registered for LPT. http://blogs.myhome.ie/2013/05/30/over-90-return-property-tax-forms/[/QUOTE]

Maryanne, please answer me one question: Is there ANYTHING You cant find fault with in this bunch of thuggish liars for a government?

This thread is about BFP in his car yesterday, what the hell has it got to do with your pr exercise of promoting that accursed lpt???

Whether you like it or not, the current Government was democratically elected. The THUGS who vandalised his car are just thugs, who speak for no one other than themselves - if they are able to speak at all. Vandalism and criminal damage is NEVER acceptable. I have pointed out that there are too many TD's Senators and Councillors and that they are paid too much, so, yes, I have found fault!

Corkbah · 08-06-2013 12:58pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

It's amazing how many people throughout history have decided violence is a better means to get what they want.

how many people have made change by conforming/doing what they are told ?

1940's jews come to mind !! (off topic but illustrates the point the people in charge usually make decisions that benefit them and their ilk and those that obey and do not question the motives behind these decisions suffer)

I'm sure the various taxes that have been introduced may be needed - but I'm also sure that if the government gave full accountability for where the funds go and how they are used (and not wasted) then the majority of the country would pay.

a number of years ago we were told the plastic bag tax was to be used for the upkeep/maintanence of the roads ....after a few years and some investigations we get told the money goes into a pot/general fund for use if/when needed.

I would have no problem paying a tax once its justified and the monies collected are not wasted - I would see most of a ministers expenses as being a waste - they are paid well enough so they should be able to afford and pay for some of them (ie. dry cleaning allowance, mobile phone allowance every 12/18months to buy a new phone etc)

I would question the allowance for mileage/travel expenses - there are not a lot of jobs which pay you to drive to work and home - why are ministers allowed claim travel expenses for this ? especially as the majority do not use eco-friendly cars - they are usually 2L or higher engines....also is there a need for so many advisors to travel with a minister ?

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 1:03pm

Corkbah wrote: »

how many people have made change by conforming/doing what they are told ?

1940's jews come to mind !! (off topic but illustrates the point the people in charge usually make decisions that benefit them and their ilk and those that obey and do not question the motives behind these decisions suffer)

I'm sure the various taxes that have been introduced may be needed - but I'm also sure that if the government gave full accountability for where the funds go and how they are used (and not wasted) then the majority of the country would pay.

a number of years ago we were told the plastic bag tax was to be used for the upkeep/maintanence of the roads ....after a few years and some investigations we get told the money goes into a pot/general fund for use if/when needed.

I would have no problem paying a tax once its justified and the monies collected are not wasted - I would see most of a ministers expenses as being a waste - they are paid well enough so they should be able to afford and pay for some of them (ie. dry cleaning allowance, mobile phone allowance every 12/18months to buy a new phone etc)

I would question the allowance for mileage/travel expenses - there are not a lot of jobs which pay you to drive to work and home - why are ministers allowed claim travel expenses for this ? especially as the majority do not use eco-friendly cars - they are usually 2L or higher engines....also is there a need for so many advisors to travel with a minister ?

There is a vast difference between questioning / opposing something / non conformance and resorting to violence.

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 1:04pm

mike65 wrote: »

Grand so, sleep the sleep of the just.

Now ye have it...

Corkbah · 08-06-2013 1:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, the current Government was democratically elected. The THUGS who vandalised his car are just thugs, who speak for no one other than themselves - if they are able to speak at all. Vandalism and criminal damage is NEVER acceptable. I have pointed out that there are too many TD's Senators and Councillors and that they are paid too much, so, yes, I have found fault!

I agree with you - there are correct ways of demonstrating and this was not one of them, however, I've seen various ministers over the years make promises and then when they cannot or do not come through for those people they simply ignore them and hope they go away - sometimes they will make an appointment to "listen" to the people ...but after the meeting they carry on as if nothing had happened, ignoring the various different families pleas for help.

we have far too many politicians in this country and far too much pub politics, should the seanad be abolished .... I think no, it should be reformed.... made up of non-political appointees people from different sectors of society....ask yourself - why do our politicians want rid of the seanad ? what is the role of the seanad? I've always understood that the seanad were to oversee the politicians ....if you take away the people watching them ...god knows what our politicians will get upto !!

Corkbah · 08-06-2013 1:07pm

Phoebas wrote: »

There is a vast difference between questioning / opposing something / non conformance and resorting to violence.

I agree - but its difficult to get someone's attention when they consistently ignore you and use the resources at their disposal to protect themselves from engaging with "the people"

there are not a lot of politicians around who can claim to be "one of the people"

The Bishop Basher · 08-06-2013 1:10pm

Phoebas wrote: »

There is a vast difference between questioning / opposing something / non conformance and resorting to violence.

When questioning an opposing has been tried and failed over and over ad nauseum. What do you suggest then ?

And while I'm not condoning violence, it's impossible to deny that it has often been the only route to affect change when you have the rich and powerful wielding their influence over the poor to their detriment.

Anyway it's far too nice a day for this. I'm off to spend my family home tax on a pint and a couple of horses.

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 1:13pm

Corkbah wrote: »

I agree - but its difficult to get someone's attention when they consistently ignore you and use the resources at their disposal to protect themselves from engaging with "the people"

I can't even begin to understand how attacking Minister Hogan in his car is going to increase his engagement with the people. It'll more likely have the opposite effect.

Regardless, it isn't an acceptable form of political 'engagement'.

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 1:17pm

Swanner wrote: »

When questioning an opposing has been tried and failed over and over ad nauseum. What do you suggest then ?

Kick them out at the next election and replace them with someone who agrees with you.
(And if that fails, just accept that you have lost the argument and suck it up).

bmaxi · 08-06-2013 1:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Le_Dieux wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, the current Government was democratically elected. The THUGS who vandalised his car are just thugs, who speak for no one other than themselves - if they are able to speak at all. Vandalism and criminal damage is NEVER acceptable. I have pointed out that there are too many TD's Senators and Councillors and that they are paid too much, so, yes, I have found fault!

The fact they were democratically elected only shows that democracy is ill served. They were elected on a manifesto which they then proceeded to deny and renege upon.
Politics and politicians are dirtier than the soles of the people's shoes, they deserve no respect from the people because they show none. Noblesse Oblige, my arse.

yara · 08-06-2013 2:01pm

Corkbah wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with you - there are correct ways of demonstrating and this was not one of them

so are you going to tell us about more correct ways of protesting seeing as you can say unequivocally that's this is wrong

Phoebas · 08-06-2013 2:04pm

yara wrote: »

so are you going to tell us about more correct ways of protesting seeing as you can say unequivocally that's this is wrong

You can't figure that one out for yourself?

Galwayguy35 · 08-06-2013 2:12pm

Nothing wrong with protesting but smashing windscreens is a bit skangerish tbh.

While most people who protest are reasonable taxpayers a lot of protests attract a minority of scummers who just want to cause trouble.

yara · 08-06-2013 2:13pm

Phoebas wrote: »

You can't figure that one out for yourself?

no because i've organised a few protests, attended even more with each and every single one of them being described as complete failures, sometimes long before they happen by people who seem to have a problem with everything, i wish they could all organise their own brilliant protests that are so perfect they can criticise everyone else's so confidently

08-06-2013 2:22pm

yara wrote: »

no because i've organised a few protests, attended even more with each and every single one of them being described as complete failures, sometimes long before they happen by people who seem to have a problem with everything, i wish they could all organise their own brilliant protests that are so perfect they can criticise everyone else's so confidently

Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track. No matter who is in charge, harsh tactics are called for. We cannot continue to borrow for day to day living. Decisions were taken, for better or worse, in the best interests of Ireland. We are not alone suffering from austerity.
People have the right to peaceful protest, not to cause criminal damage to anothers property.

ecowise2 · 08-06-2013 2:39pm

Phoebas wrote: »

There is a vast difference between questioning / opposing something / non conformance and resorting to violence.

What about resorting to threats like Fiasco Phil did with regard to the property tax, does that count ?

Violence is wrong, but lets remember the car was parked on the protester's foot and Hogan refused to move it until a woman opened the door and pleaded with him to cop on and move the car back off the man's foot. I think you'd be pounding on a windscreen too if you foot was trapped and they refused to move the car off it.

Does Enda saying that to tax a person's home was both immoral and unjust still count ? Or like all liars, do they make their morals up as they go along ?

08-06-2013 2:48pm

ecowise2 wrote: »

Violence is wrong, but lets remember the car was parked on the protester's foot and Hogan refused to move it until a woman opened the door and pleaded with him to cop on and move the car back off the man's foot.

Not what was reported in any news reports I've seen. If they get close enough to try to overturn a vehicle, they must be prepared to accept the consequences. Mindless vandalism has no place in peaceful protest.

Lapin · 08-06-2013 2:50pm

View wrote: »

Ah well, no doubt the tax-payer will have to pay for the bill for the windscreen repair, the court appearance of the accused and the Garda Ombudsman investigation.

With "victories" like this, who needs "defeats"?

We'll probably have to pay for medical treatment for yer man's fist as well.

It takes some serious effort to smash a windsreeen with bare hands.
I reckon he feels the pain today.

Corkbah · 08-06-2013 2:52pm

Phoebas wrote: »

I can't even begin to understand how attacking Minister Hogan in his car is going to increase his engagement with the people. It'll more likely have the opposite effect.

Regardless, it isn't an acceptable form of political 'engagement'.

Dont get me wrong - I'm not justifying what happened .... just highlighting the difficulty that people face when trying to engage politicians ...the politicians live in their own bubble and ignore "the plebs"

08-06-2013 2:54pm

Corkbah wrote: »

Dont get me wrong - I'm not justifying what happened .... just highlighting the difficulty that people face when trying to engage politicians ...the politicians live in their own bubble and ignore "the plebs"

Why the Hell should ANYONE, let alone Politicians 'engage' with mindless vandals?

Weevil · 08-06-2013 2:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe the simple fact is that the majority of people are satisfied with the efforts of the Government to get Ireland back on track. No matter who is in charge, harsh tactics are called for. We cannot continue to borrow for day to day living. Decisions were taken, for better or worse, in the best interests of Ireland. We are not alone suffering from austerity.
People have the right to peaceful protest, not to cause criminal damage to anothers property.

Do you address Phat Phil as Minister Hogan in your day job. I ask this because only someone paid to do so would make such a statement without a smirk of sarcasm.

08-06-2013 3:08pm

Weevil wrote: »

Do you address Phat Phil as Minister Hogan in your day job. I ask this because only someone paid to do so would make such a statement without a smirk of sarcasm.

Do you not want Ireland to be prosperous again? Thinking positive is much better than negativity. I've no loyalty to any political party. My loyalty lies with Ireland, a great little country and the only place in the World I want to live.

Hootanany · 08-06-2013 3:20pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with protesting but smashing windscreens is a bit skangerish tbh.

While most people who protest are reasonable taxpayers a lot of protests attract a minority of scummers who just want to cause trouble.

The car was on the Mans foot that why he smashed the screen.

Protesters smash Windscreen of Minister Hogan Car, protesters to complain!

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