British and Irish Lions vs Queensland Reds Sat 8 June 10:30am; Sky Sports 1

CatFromHue

Profiler wrote: »

Now who is talking rubbish? :rolleyes:

The Grand Slam 2009 was his international carer highlight.

Only this week I heard O'Gara say the highlight of his international carer was 2009 grand slam and he went on 3 lions tours.

Yeah I'd say the Grand Slam was the highlight of many players international career.

Tox56

Profiler wrote: »

Now who is talking rubbish? :rolleyes:

The Grand Slam 2009 was his international carer highlight.

Only this week I heard O'Gara say the highlight of his international carer was 2009 grand slam and he went on 3 lions tours.

He may have been on 3 Lions tours but he was beaten senseless without ever playing a test in Australia, was 3rd choice 10 limited to 1 sub appearance for a totally shambolic series in New Zealand, and had an absolute nightmare when he came off the bench in the second test in South Africa. I'd have been stunned if he thought the Lions was the highlight of his career.

eyeball kid

Gutted for Bowe and Healy. Haven't seen any of the matches but it sounds like Bowe was playing well. Hopefully thats it on the injuries for a bit at least.

Profiler

trouttrout wrote: »

You are. My point is that Fitzgerald did nothing but enchance his rep off the back off that tour, who knows what his highlight is but being a Lions starter must be up there with winning the slam

Saying not to bring Zebo because it's his first international season, and then saying to bring Visser (also his first international season) is just a complete contradiction

Where did I say Lions tour don't bring prestige or "enhance rep"? I suspect you are deliberately ignoring the point of what I am saying.

In terms of injuries and form going on a Lions tour so early in a career hasn't helped Earls or Fitzgerald.

As for Visser, once more you are wrong. Visser picked up 11 caps for Scotland in 2012 and in this years 6 nations he played all 5 games for Scotland and scored 2 tries.

trouttrout

Profiler wrote: »

Where did I say Lions tour don't bring prestige or "enhance rep"? I suspect you are deliberately ignoring the point of what I am saying.

In terms of injuries and form going on a Lions tour so early in a career hasn't helped Earls or Fitzgerald.

As for Visser, once more you are wrong. Visser picked up 11 caps for Scotland in 2012 and in this years 6 nations he played all 5 games for Scotland and scored 2 tries.

haha, so I'm wrong am I?

He made his debut in June of 2012, the same month Zebo made his for Ireland. And you're completely wrong about him having 11 caps in 2012, he has 11 in total including five this year. Bar the summer tour in 2012, which Zebo also took part in for Ireland, the vast majority of his international rugby has come this season. So by your own daft logic if it's not Vissers first international season it's not Zebos either

But the real point of confusion is why you seem to think Zebo is too inexperienced? What exactly has Visser gained in his extra 5 caps this season that Zebo doesn't have?

Buer

Profiler wrote: »

Is it pie in the sky that since Rugby went professional that after each of Lions tours the winners of the 5/6 nations has been France?

You say it didn't hurt DO'C or Heaslip, well I'd argue Heaslip's form post 2009 Lions tour, when he copped a lot of flack.

Paul O'Connell hasn't been ever present since 2009.

You do realise that Flannery picked up a serious Elbow injury while training with the Lions training for the tour in 2009?

Ehhh what? Are those ahead of Earls at Munster playing for Ireland? No.

Are they playing for the Lions? No.

So from being one of the 4 best centers in the 4 nations to not being one of the best in Munster is real improvement all right!

No, France have a full year to prepare and to try out new combinations just as they're currently doing right now in NZ. That has a huge impact on their international season.

If you think Heaslip's form went downhill after the Lions tour, you've lost the plot. I think he broke the provincial record for MOTM performances in 2009/10. He was simply freakish.

POC hasn't been ever present in past 4 years? Wonderful. Neither has Donnacha Ryan. Or Leo Cullen. Or Dan Tuohy. Or Johann Muller. He's an extremely physical player in a hard position. Of course he has picked up injuries. They were exacerbated by being misdiagnosed and copping an infection in a joint. I suppose we should blame the Lions for Tony Buckley dropping him in a line out too and damaging his achilles?

And you're blaming the Lions for Fla picking up an injury in the very first meet up of the Lions in 2009. That was pretty much his first ever training session with them.

And yes, Zebo is ahead of Earls for Ireland. Earls is not a centre. He played one game there for the Lions in the last match of the tour when they were down to their bones. He has played superbly since then including a great WC on the wing.

Your points are completely tenuous with no foundation and even less fact to support them.

Buer

Profiler wrote: »

Why was that then? because Lions tours have no effect?

Sorry, so firstly he hadn't been given a break and now that he has a break it's because the Lions clearly took too much out of him? You're just tying yourself into knots now.

He was given a sufficient break after a Lions tour and brought back into playing gradually as per his fitness scheme. He was injured two months later with nobody around him when his studs caught in the ground, fielding a ball.

I've no idea what point you're trying to make.

The Aussie

Buer wrote: »

Your points are completely tenuous with no foundation and even less fact to support them.

But none the less makes for entertaining reading.....

Carry on please.

Profiler

trouttrout wrote: »

haha, so I'm wrong am I?

But the real point of confusion is why you seem to think Zebo is too inexperienced? What exactly has Visser gained in his extra 5 caps this season that Zebo doesn't have?

trouttrout wrote: »

Some rubbish being spouted on this thread. The Lions tour was the highlight of Fitzgeralds international career

trouttrout wrote: »

Fitzgerald did nothing but enchance his rep off the back off that tour, who knows what his highlight is but

I said it was the first full year of Zebo's international career, where did I say he was inexperienced?

Visser is three years old and three years further down the line in terms of physical development than Zebo is.

In terms of club career Visser has played 149, Zebo has 48. The point I am making is I think it's better for Zebo's career to miss this Lions tour, based on what I feel were the less than positive outcomes for Fitzgerald and Ealrs.

trouttrout

Profiler wrote: »

I said it was the first full year of Zebo's international career, where did I say he was inexperienced?

Visser is three years old and three years further down the line in terms of physical development than Zebo is.

In terms of club career Visser has played 149, Zebo has 48. The point I am making is I think it's better for Zebo's career to miss this Lions tour, based on what I feel were the less than positive outcomes for Fitzgerald and Ealrs.

You mean the ones that Beur explained above had nothing to do with the Lions? Again, give a reason why Zebo should not be called up and try and back it up with actual fact rather than the nonsense you were spouting about Fitzgerald

Profiler

trouttrout wrote: »

You mean the ones that Beur explained above had nothing to do with the Lions? Again, give a reason why Zebo should not be called up and try and back it up with actual fact rather than the nonsense you were spouting about Fitzgerald

Buer gave no facts, like me he gave an opinion, he has his, I have mine.

The reason I don't want him to tour is I would rather he was under the Irish management in the run up to the 2015 World cup.

If he goes on the Lions tour, it is my opinion it would be detrimental to his development.

Buer

Profiler wrote: »

Buer gave no facts, like me he gave an opinion, he has his, I have mine.

Why must you turn this into a thread of lies? Why?

yimrsg

I wonder just how good BOD and Jonny Wilkinson would have been if they never traveled with the Lions 12 years ago.

trouttrout

Profiler wrote: »

Buer gave no facts, like me he gave an opinion, he has his, I have mine.

The reason I don't want him to tour is I would rather he was under the Irish management in the run up to the 2015 World cup.

If he goes on the Lions tour, it is my opinion it would be detrimental to his development.

Yes he did, ones that directly contradict the "argument" you're trying to make about the Lions being bad for young players careers, which you've conveniently ignored. But anyway, you haven't a bogs notion what you're talking about and looking at your posts on the Ireland game yesterday it seems you're merely looking for a reaction which I am providing. I'm out

Lelantos

yimrsg wrote: »

I wonder just how good BOD and Jonny Wilkinson would have been if they never traveled with the Lions 12 years ago.

Wouldn't have made a jot of difference imo.

The Aussie

The Australian Media are calling Zebo.

"With Bowe ruled out of the tour, compatriot Simon Zebo is the frontrunner to be called into the Lions 37-man squad ahead of England's Chris Ashton."

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8671891

Interesting story of Spying from Perth and also regarding the 2001 tour :pac:

CatFromHue

Wow that's mad about Scott Johnston!

Effectively they'd a coach who'd free reign to walk around the playing area.

Buer

Same was supposedly tried in 2005 by the Kiwis except the Lions handled it awfully and tried to change all their line outs a couple of days before the first test.

yimrsg

Lelantos wrote: »

Wouldn't have made a jot of difference imo.

I know, I just gave two examples of youngsters who played with the Lions that went on to have brilliant careers. I should have used the sarcasm font or a smilie to make it clearer that the post was in jest.

Fireball07

The injury to Bowe is terrible...playing brilliantly too, looked like had become a certainty to start.

As for replacement, would seem like a shootout between Ashton and Zebo now. Wouldn't put it past either of them starting....Cuthbert not great, and Maitland wasn't a stand-out in his first game.

And what's up with Tuilagi, I'd hate if he missed out too.

toomevara

The Aussie wrote: »

The Australian Media are calling Zebo.

"With Bowe ruled out of the tour, compatriot Simon Zebo is the frontrunner to be called into the Lions 37-man squad ahead of England's Chris Ashton."

God, please anyone but Ashton....

Lelantos

yimrsg wrote: »

I know, I just gave two examples of youngsters who played with the Lions that went on to have brilliant careers. I should have used the sarcasm font or a smilie to make it clearer that the post was in jest.

Sorry, long day at work, I should have spotted that :-D

The Aussie

toomevara wrote: »

God, please anyone but Ashton....

I originally thanked your post but after carefull consideration I've removed it after remembering how divisive a Tw@t of that caliber can be to a touring party (looking back of fond memories of Austin Healy :pac:) so my prayer would be.
Baby Jebus, all i want for Christmas is for that great polariser of men Chris Ashton to be a starter for all 3 tests

Buer

The Aussie wrote: »

Baby Jebus, all i want for Christmas is for that great polariser of men Chris Ashton to be a starter for all 3 tests

Careful what you wish for. One team that CA has certainly delivered against is Australia and he's done it down there too. I'd say he has a great chance of getting the call. He's also known for being extremely popular within squads off the field so wouldn't count on him being a divisive figure. I think his lack of versatility will kill him though.

*Hank Scorpio*

toomevara wrote: »

God, please anyone but Ashton....

Yeah, I feel like this too but the guy has serious gas. I dunno why but I keep thinking the Aussie wingers, particularly Ioane (if fit), are on another level speed-wise.

Cuthbert was caught pretty handy by Morahan today and I still have nightmares of Tommy Bowe being caught by O'Connor in the RWC in 2011.

awec

Ugh, the thought of him doing that swan dive. Pass me the sick bucket.

The Aussie

Buer wrote: »

Careful what you wish for. One team that CA has certainly delivered against is Australia.

Care Factor 0

Some hate figure for the tour Priceless

CatFromHue

The Aussie wrote: »

Care Factor 0

Some hate figure for the tour Priceless

I wonder if that actually in some little way worked against Ashton in the first place.

Gatland did say in the Spring that some of the English players would be seized upon by the Aussies and that he would have to think about that in selecting his squad.

Al_Coholic

awec wrote: »

Ugh, the thought of him doing that swan dive. Pass me the sick bucket.

but if he did the swan dive to win the series in the last minute of the final game...i think you and i would both be shouting no matter who scored

TheGoldenAges

Al_Coholic wrote: »

but if he did the swan dive to win the series in the last minute of the final game...i think you and i would both be shouting no matter who scored

Very hypothetical situation that's unlikely to happen, I'll give you odds of 1000/1