Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Nijmegen

It really is fascinating to watch airport infrastructure being developed around the world. It's almost like a synonym for the general economic development of nations. The basic theme seems to be western countries making constant compromises and delaying and delaying while mega projects steamroll communities and deliver oh so shiny new mega airports like the new one in Beijing. (It probably also helps that if, say, a Berlin-Brandenburg debacle was to happen in China half the managers would go to a gulag and the other half would be encouraged to work four times harder.) As well as the obvious advantages of running a dictatorship, one senses these projects also have a driving ambition behind them, whereas a project to expand Dublin Airport is driven (or not) by a series of competing, mis-aligned or non-visionary ideas.

In any event, it sounds like a few more small compromises have been made for reasons I'm sure would be fascinating to hear about. But at least the overall prize is on track to be delivered.

(and for the record, I'd rather live in a slightly inefficient democracy myself)

Tenger

While the recent news of a BA retro B747 has caused a buzz it also comes with the news that BA intend to retire their last 13 B747s by 2025.
I think they have 10 A380s in service with only B777, B787, A350s on order for longhaul.

As for Air France, 50% of their A380s are reaching the end of their lease which will not be renewed. We've already seen Singapore retire a couple of their early frames and Malaysian fpcus on the efficiency of the B777. The big test will be see how Emirates decide to do with their massive A380 flleet.

So in fairness to DAA if the days of large quads are numbered then planning for them now is a bit surplus to requirements. Similar to the wails of despair from the spotters who harp on because "Dublin's runway cant handle the A380"

theguzman

Tenger wrote: »

While the recent news of a BA retro B747 has caused a buzz it also comes with the news that BA intend to retire their last 13 B747s by 2025.
I think they have 10 A380s in service with only B777, B787, A350s on order for longhaul.

As for Air France, 50% of their A380s are reaching the end of their lease which will not be renewed. We've already seen Singapore retire a couple of their early frames and Malaysian fpcus on the efficiency of the B777. The big test will be see how Emirates decide to do with their massive A380 flleet.

So in fairness to DAA if the days of large quads are numbered then planning for them now is a bit surplus to requirements. Similar to the wails of despair from the spotters who harp on because "Dublin's runway cant handle the A380"

Dublin airport will never see scheduled quad-Jet passenger aircraft now bar the odd medical emergency or some sort of UK based ATC or snow chaos diversions, the A380 is used for slot restricted or bilateral restricted routes so Emirates won't be sending it. If Ireland perhaps qualified for a World Cup in Qatar 2022 then we might see the odd charter etc using steps.

The days of the quads are declining with higher and unstable fuel prices coupled with greater efficiency and extended etops operations for twin jet aircraft. The A380 will still be flying well into the 2030's and they will still be there just getting rarer and rarer, the A340 was a lovely plane to fly on in its day and much quieter and more spacious than the 777, a ten a breast triple 7 is a particular pet hate of mine in economy.

L1011

DUB has scheduled quad jets every day. They're just very very small! (Avros)

sdanseo

L1011 wrote: »

DUB has scheduled quad jets every day. They're just very very small! (Avros)

Quad hairdryers don't count :pac:

L1011

The only aircraft with 5 APUs as I've heard it referred to.

HTCOne

Only quads can carry replacement 777 engines, so they will be seen fron time to time for this reason, and have been. Will only be worse for GE9X

no.8

Appears to be a slightly short-sighted approach by the DAA which creates operational limitations from the outset.

There is no reason why Emirates might not choose to operate the A380 out of Dublin (if they could). E.g. As is the case in several cities within the UK.
It may still be feasible but it could also cause issues with the landscaping

what-is-the-minimum-runway-width-in-order-to-operate-airbus-aircraft.pdf

Added to that. Who's to say how wide the undercarriage / wingspan of future twins will be? A newly built 3000m+ runway at our international gateway should be capable of taking the largest of aircraft (both passenger and cargo ops). They have almost a clean slate to start with, a once in a generational opportunity (new tower, runway etc. I hope they make the most of it).

Tenger

HTCOne wrote: »

Only quads can carry replacement 777 engines, so they will be seen fron time to time for this reason, and have been. Will only be worse for GE9X

An-124 or An-225?

HTCOne

Tenger wrote: »

An-124 or An-225?

Both, 747 can take current GE90 too. 777F can take a disassembled (ie IDG etc removed) GE90 but that’s far from ideal. You tend to see the Antonovs bringing them in because they are normally the easiest to charter at short notice and also don’t require specialist loading equipment on the ground (Antonov has it’s own crane internally, or you can just drive the truck and trailer carrying the engine on board). I doubt DUB will have the required rigs for removing a GE90/9X from a 747 just lying around.

sdanseo

HTCOne wrote: »

I doubt DUB will have the required rigs for removing a GE90/9X from a 747 just lying around.

It's Ireland. Someone will just hire a teleporter. Be grand.

(^ everything that is wrong with our attitude to civilised transport solutions)

Stealthirl

markpb wrote: »

The problem is not that they were wrong or caught out by the recovery, it's that they were taking a short-term view of infrastructure investment.

That's a persistent decades old issue in Ireland. Only look a few years ahead if were lucky not 15+ years ahead. M50 was a good example aswell as small towns rapidly expanding with houses but no or very little improvements to local infrastructure

HTCOne

Stealthirl wrote: »

That's a persistent decades old issue in Ireland. Only look a few years ahead if were lucky not 15+ years ahead. M50 was a good example aswell as small towns rapidly expanding with houses but no or very little improvements to local infrastructure

Thing is the DAA/Aer Rianta have at times shown tremendous foresight over the years. Buying the land needed for the parallel runway in the 70s was really inspired, building a metro station under T1 was also very forward thinking. Building T2 where they did was the opposite Unfortunately, and cutting RETs etc on the new runway is the same.

L1011

There is no metro station under T1!

Ridiculous urban myth that this site is almost solely responsible for perpetuating

Captain_Crash

L1011 wrote: »

There is no metro station under T1!

Ridiculous urban myth that this site is almost solely responsible for perpetuating

T1 was built with this in mind and although no station was ever constructed, the cavity for one is there. It became that Check In Area 14 several years ago

L1011

Captain_Crash wrote: »

T1 was built with this in mind and although no station was ever constructed, the cavity for one is there. It became that Check In Area 14 several years ago

They built a large basement, yes. With the idea that might have become a DART station - as that was the plan being discussed. It was never anything more than a basement until it became Area 14.

There are people across boards.ie obsessed with the idea there is some equipped metro station locked away down there; and absolute myths of a mates cousins dogs aunt having been let in to see it. That the Metro North/Metrolink plans don't go anywhere near it seems to escape them.

billie1b

L1011 wrote: »

They built a large basement, yes. With the idea that might have become a DART station - as that was the plan being discussed. It was never anything more than a basement until it became Area 14.

There are people across boards.ie obsessed with the idea there is some equipped metro station locked away down there; and absolute myths of a mates cousins dogs aunt having been let in to see it. That the Metro North/Metrolink plans don't go anywhere near it seems to escape them.

Area 14 is not where the Metro/Train station was, it’s 2 floors under that again, under the lower baggage hall, you used to be able to access it from there. It was a shell of a train platform/station, not a full station and nothing to do with metro north, I was in it years ago, multiple times. It’s now redone as a storage area for DAA.

View Profile

billie1b wrote:

Area 14 is not where the Metro/Train station was, it’s 2 floors under that again, under the lower baggage hall, you used to be able to access it from there. It was a shell of a train platform/station, not a full station and nothing to do with metro north, I was in it years ago, multiple times. It’s now redone as a storage area for DAA.

Any pics of it lying around? Would be curious to see it.
Fair play indeed to Aer Rianta for having the foresight.

L1011

There were active discussions about what format DART would have at the time, it was fully intended to have a DART line there so it wasn't really foresight. As it is it is never going to be used as Metro stop.

The original DART plan included what is basically the Luas Red Line, but as DART; and a spur to what eventually became Blanchardstown S/C as well as a line to the Airport. Would have been a huge boost to the city, but never happened.

Tenger

billie1b wrote: »

Area 14 is not where the Metro/Train station was, it’s 2 floors under that again, under the lower baggage hall, you used to be able to access it from there. It was a shell of a train platform/station, not a full station and nothing to do with metro north, I was in it years ago, multiple times. It’s now redone as a storage area for DAA.

I think this is the crux of the matter. There is a shell of a facility in place but getting it up an running would require a lot of work. But the mention of a station in place makes some ppl picture a mothballed tube station.

plodder

The so-called station box under the Mater hospital (for Metro North) isn't really even a shell of a station (or a station box). It's no more than a retaining/diaphragm wall, which will allow tunneling to take place very close to the hospital, without damaging the building. This thing in T1 sounds like something more elaborate if it's really being used for storage, and which (I'm guessing) makes it less likely to be usable for the metro as you'd hardly be able to run a tunnel boring machine through an existing, already constructed space.

Shedite27

Would love to see a picture

plodder

Sounds more like a nuclear bunker. They were all the rage in the 1970s

sdanseo

Are the "platforms" in this basement even long enough to be of use for heavy rail?

The original T1 building is no more than 100m wide. Even if the facility runs full length and was converted it would just barely hold a 90m LRT platform with all the trimmings.

Tenger

At this point with the expansion of the airport campus I would expect that any rail service (inter city link, DART, Metro North, super LUAS or whatever) would require a new purpose built location with pedestrian access to both current terminals.

Donegal Storm

The metro station is planned for roughly where the T2 surface car park is - next to the private bus area.

Would assume/hope we get an overhaul of the whole bus area at the same time, the current setup is a mess with next to no facilities, no waiting areas, lack of timetable info etc

WishUWereHere

I was over at the back of the Airport yesterday, and noticed that the tower crane is gone. Also saw the Átha Cliath/Dublin signage lit up from top to bottom of the Tower. Impressive.

Is the new ATC operational yet? And if not anyone know when it is due to come online?

Apologies if this question has been asked elsewhere.

Stephen Strange

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I was over at the back of the Airport yesterday, and noticed that the tower crane is gone. Also saw the Átha Cliath/Dublin singnage lit up from top to bottom of the Tower. Impressive.

Is the new ATC operational yet? And if not anyone know when it is due to come online?

Apologies if this question has been asked elsewhere.

As far as I know, it will be 2021 by the time testing is complete and it's fully operational

DublinKev

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I was over at the back of the Airport yesterday, and noticed that the tower crane is gone. Also saw the Átha Cliath/Dublin signage lit up from top to bottom of the Tower. Impressive.

Is the new ATC operational yet? And if not anyone know when it is due to come online?

Apologies if this question has been asked elsewhere.

They seem to have lost the power in the Átha for the last couple of days! Mustn’t have paid the electricity bill!

HTCOne

Stephen Strange wrote: »

As far as I know, it will be 2021 by the time testing is complete and it's fully operational

I heard 12 months before the new runway opens to allow everything else to bed in properly. Haven’t heard which will be the contingency tower though ie the current contingency tower on top of the old terminal or the current tower. Current tower can’t see threshold of 10L, hence the requirement for new tower, but I don’t know if the contingency tower can see that either.