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Match Thread: Ulster Rugby v Llanelli Scarlets, Rabo SF, Friday 10th May 2013 19:45

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    #272
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    trouttrout wrote: »
    I don't buy the "It's rugby" excuse. I mean in rugby two guys can get thick and shove each other around and common sense will prevail, and rightly so. But punching is a completely different matter altogether and has no place in the game imo

    10 minutes in the bin for what Trimble did though was adequate to discipline him imo. He didnt get away with it, he threw a dig which wasnt much of anything really and got a black eye and 10 minutes in the bin for his troubles. I'd buy the "its rugby" excuse to some degree, its a physical game and tempers will flare. Handbags and scuffles are always going to be part of some games. I'd agree punches shouldnt be tolerated but I dont see the odd dig as a scourge on the game that can be eradicated.

    There is a difference in what Trimble and Williams did though. Williams completely lost it and attacked Trimble. That cant be tolerated and he should have gotten a red card.


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    #273
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Haha there's no way you can say one should have gotten a red while the other shouldn't. Trimble instigated the thing and punched Williams in the face more than once. Williams punched him in the face more than once.

    Either both should have gotten a red (my opinion) or neither should.


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    #274
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Haha there's no way you can say one should have gotten a red while the other shouldn't. Trimble instigated the thing and punched Williams in the face more than once. Williams punched him in the face more than once.

    Either both should have gotten a red (my opinion) or neither should.

    Course you can. Instigated it or not Williams went overboard in any context. A punch in a scuffle is one thing, landing on top of another player and throwing repeated punches to the face is a different level. Its an odd dig vs that McRae fella pummelling the face off ROG type thing.


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    #275
    19543261
    Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭19543261


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Ah punching has a place in the game.

    What.


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    #276
    19543261
    Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭19543261


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Course you can. Instigated it or not Williams went overboard in any context. A punch in a scuffle is one thing, landing on top of another player and throwing repeated punches to the face is a different level. Its an odd dig vs that McRae fella pummelling the face off ROG type thing.

    Do have a look again at the replay if you havent, its difficult to tell because Trimble doesnt throw in blatant swings, but Williams head definitely does jerk back quite a bit from the smack. Both deserve citings, for different reasons.

    I cant see how anyone would suggest carry on like that is okay. What do you think would happen if everyone reacted in the same way as Williams? Or smacks to the faces in rucks were common? Because "ah sure tempers are high, its only natural!"?


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    #277
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Course you can. Instigated it or not Williams went overboard in any context. A punch in a scuffle is one thing, landing on top of another player and throwing repeated punches to the face is a different level. Its an odd dig vs that McRae fella pummelling the face off ROG type thing.

    Trimble landed on top of Williams and punched HIM repeatedly.


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    #278
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Trimble landed on top of Williams and punched HIM repeatedly.

    Trimble landed beside him and punched him once lol. Williams got on top of Trimble who was on his knees and threw at least 3/4 punches to the face.


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    #279
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    19543261 wrote: »
    Do have a look again at the replay if you havent, its difficult to tell because Trimble doesnt throw in blatant swings, but Williams head definitely does jerk back quite a bit from the smack. Both deserve citings, for different reasons.

    I cant see how anyone would suggest carry on like that is okay. What do you think would happen if everyone reacted in the same way as Williams? Or smacks to the faces in rucks were common? Because "ah sure tempers are high, its only natural!"?

    I've looked at. Trimble does make contact but from his position it was more of fist pushed than a fist thrown. It was a dig but nothing too bad, I think a yellow was enough.


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    #280
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Trimble landed beside him and punched him once lol. Williams got on top of Trimble who was on his knees and threw at least 3/4 punches to the face.

    Right, I think you're clearly only seeing what you want to see if you think he only hit him once! He clearly hit him twice in the face and he would have landed more if he could.

    Who was it who threw the first punch? Trimble. Williams certainly reacted and hit him more times and more aggressively but he is no more guilty in my book.


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    #281
    yimrsg
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭yimrsg


    William's actions were an order of magnitude more severe than Trimble's, it should have been a yellow for Trimble and red for Williams.


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    #282
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Right, I think you're clearly only seeing what you want to see if you think he only hit him once! He clearly hit him twice in the face and he would have landed more if he could.

    Who was it who threw the first punch? Trimble. Williams certainly reacted and hit him more times and more aggressively but he is no more guilty in my book.

    Its not about what I want to see, there is video footage of Trimble striking Williams once while holding his jersey. Still a dig but more in handbag fashion than anything. Trimble did instigate the punches though but still thats no excuse for Williams to do what he did. I'd differentiate between harmless digs and over tp top attacking. Digs will always be part of the game and a yellow to calm a player down is fine for those. What Williams did though was more and there really is no place in the game for players assaulting others like that.


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    #283
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Its not about what I want to see, there is video footage of Trimble striking Williams once while holding his jersey. Still a dig but more in handbag fashion than anything. Trimble did instigate the punches though but still thats no excuse for Williams to do what he did. I'd differentiate between harmless digs and over tp top attacking. Digs will always be part of the game and a yellow to calm a player down is fine for those. What Williams did though was more and there really is no place in the game for players assaulting others like that.

    Haha right I can see there ill be no balance here. Very easy to see he hit him twice in the video. And he was the instigator. To say one player should see red for punching three times and another who started the thing should see yellow for two bunches is just double standards.


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    #284
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Haha right I can see there ill be no balance here. Very easy to see he hit him twice in the video. And he was the instigator. To say one player should see red for punching three times and another who started the thing should see yellow for two bunches is just double standards.

    I think there difference here is between punching and "hitting"/striking. There is one clear punch from Trimble and a second slap/shove which is borderline whether it's a punch or not


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    #285
    19543261
    Registered Users Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭19543261


    If this happened while both of them were standing it's hard to imagine they'd have only gotten yellows.

    it would have been a boxing match on a rugby pitch.


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    #286
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I think there difference here is between punching and "hitting"/striking. There is one clear punch from Trimble and a second slap/shove which is borderline whether it's a punch or not

    True. There is no difference in the laws though.


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    #287
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,755 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Lads we're not going to make much progress here!

    Anyway I'd be surprised if Trimnle missed the final because of that.

    I'm more concerned by Diack's half hearted attempt to trip a Scarlets player. It may just have been instinct and in the end he didnt get close to the player but I hate tripping, no matter who is responsible.


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    #288
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Haha right I can see there ill be no balance here. Very easy to see he hit him twice in the video. And he was the instigator. To say one player should see red for punching three times and another who started the thing should see yellow for two bunches is just double standards.

    Please look at the clip again, Trimble only hits him once. There is no double standards just a differentiation between a handbag dig and over the top repeated punching. One is a scuffle the other is assault.


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    #289
    sweetthing
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭sweetthing


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Please look at the clip again, Trimble only hits him once. There is no double standards just a differentiation between a handbag dig and over the top repeated punching. One is a scuffle the other is assault.

    assault? good god. this is exactly the type of hyperbole I'm on about...seriously, if you are on the ground and a guy is digging you, how likely are you to keep your cool? purely reactionary, even if it was an over-reaction.


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    #290
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    The inconsistency in Rollands refereeing annoyed me, he obviously saw Trimble strike Williams first but didnt blow for a penalty, held his arm out for advantage to Ulster for slowing the ball down. Then after the flashpoint he gives the penalty to Scarlets for Trimble acting first. If he had've penalised Trimble initially the whole melee wouldnt have kicked off.


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    #291
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    sweetthing wrote: »
    assault? good god. this is exactly the type of hyperbole I'm on about...seriously, if you are on the ground and a guy is digging you, how likely are you to keep your cool? purely reactionary, even if it was an over-reaction.

    Well thats what it was, he took it beyond a scuffle. I'm not trying to over inflate the thing, perhaps assault is a poorly chosen word. I'm just trying to verbalise the fact that I think Williams reaction was not acceptable even in that context. I've seen plenty of players lose their cool in situations like that and very few jump on an opponent and starts throwing fast repeated punches like Williams did. Its not acceptable reaction to what was handbags.


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    #292
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Ah punching has a place in the game. It's place is in the grey area of illegality within the game rather than something like gouging or spearing which have no place in the game.

    I actually agree with this. IT's a physical game, blood boils over, for the most part considering what happens at ruck time players keep a very cool head. The odd fisty cuffs are inevitable. I've often been on the receiving end of it and had a laugh with the guy afterwards.

    If somebody gouged me however.... That's disgusting, completely different thing all together. It's exactly the type of thing that you reserve the phrase 'Has no place in rugby' for.


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