Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

STForSale

padrageous wrote: »

I bought tickets back to Longford online from Dublin Airport Friday. Anyone know any private operators doing a Dublin - Longford route? Am I eligible for a refund or can the ticket be used on trains?

I have a taxsaver and had to fork out €11 for the train this morning.
IE defenitely not honouring bus tickets.
Anyone know the procedure to claim a refund?

Kumsheen

ressem wrote: »

Recommendation
The Court Recommends as follows: -

· No change to Sunday bonus for employees rostered for normal duty on Sunday (Double time for basic day)

· Overtime currently paid at double time on Sundays be paid at 1.5 times

· Public Holidays be paid at 1.25 times plus statutory entitlements for a basic day

· All overtime on Public Holidays that was paid at double time to be paid at 1.25 times for the first two hours and at 1.5 times thereafter (overtime and rest days worked)

Recommendation
The Court recommends that these expense payments and allowances by reduced by 20%

· Equalisation allowance
· Meal allowance
· Overnight Allowance
· Outbased Allowance

Recommendation
The Court recommends that the shift payment of 1/6th be reduced to 1/7th and all other shift payments be reduced pro rata.

In line with the Company’s proposal if the financial situation improves significantly this will be reviewed in 2014 with a view to restoring the shift rates to current levels.

I have to say i had sympathy for the Bus drivers until i saw these details of the Labour Court recommendation posted here, they don't seem too excessive, and the drivers will still maintain a lot of allowances and shift premiums after this.

On the other hand i think other costs in BE such as expensive marketing and advertising campaigns have probably contributed in a big way to the losses at BE.
This company should really concentrate on providing an efficient and reliable PSO service, and stop using taxpayer funding to compete with private operators who will always have a lower cost structure than BE.

Perhaps the Unions are using this dispute as a guinea pig in the wider context of looming public sector disputes, to test the water and see if the government eventually capitulates.

ixoy

For those drivers involved here - what would be an acceptable outcome? Assuming that there's a recognition that some cuts have to be made in the company what would you do?
I think most would agree something has to go somewhere within the company but the current bone of contention is that it affects shift workers more.

Related to the above, the NRBU had wants "intervention" without disclosing what it is. Given that Bus Eireann management are - so we're told - open for talks, what is this intervention?

Can I ask is the touted 3k reduction in wages a net or gross wage loss?

devnull

What I heard the unions say over the weekend is the union are happy to talk but they will not accept any cuts and when asked to come up with alternatives, they said that was not going to happen either.

I believe they are waiting for some intervention along the lines of the parent company bailing Bus Eireann out, or the government giving the company extra money from what I have heard.

currins_02

Just to clarify something mentioned away earlier in the thread, the Donegal services running are absolutely nothing to do with McGinley Coaches or John McGinley Coaches in any way. These are services operated by McGeehan Coaches of Fintown, Co Donegal. McGeehan sold their services a number of years back to BE and entered a partnership whereby McGeehan's were then contracted to operate many of those services for a prolonged period of time. All revenue goes to BE, the services operate with BE wayfarers on all buses, BE tickets are accepted, tickets may be bought on line, the services have BE service numbers etc. All the services operating in Donegal running yesterday, today and beyond are BUS EIREANN services but they are operated in full on a rolling contract by vehicles and staff from McGeehan coaches, as they have been for years, who are not subject to the action, not union members and in many cases the services are socially essential.

Also, as a coach driver I can tell you that McGeehan's run immaculate stock and have a name as being excellent employers with good pay and conditions. They have a very a very low staff turnover and if/when a vacancy arises they are highly desirable.

I have no connection to and have have not worked for McGeehans. If a job did come up that suited me (I'm not based in Donegal so hardly likely!) I would apply like a hot snot based on the reputation the company has.

devnull

According to a tweet on Twitter, GoBE Services are being disrupted by strikers:
https://twitter.com/ronanbagnall/status/333879220516298754

LeinsterDub

What are Equalisation allowance and Outbased Allowance ?

ixoy

devnull wrote: »

What I heard the unions say over the weekend is the union are happy to talk but they will not accept any cuts and when asked to come up with alternatives, they said that was not going to happen either.

So what are they going to talk about? I'm confused by their stance on this - surely it's in the unions interest to try and at least find some sort of common middle ground. It's in the interest of their own members that the company doesn't go bust.

bk

devnull wrote: »

According to a tweet on Twitter, GoBE Services are being disrupted by strikers:
https://twitter.com/ronanbagnall/status/333879220516298754

I assume the Gardai were called and they were cleared from a public road?

homerjay2005

Payroll costs of €266million in 2010 and 2011 combined, yet one of the most overpaid workforces in the world goes on strike when cuts come in?

absolutely disgraceful, Unions are constantly holding this country to randsom and its about time somebody stood up to them, sadly it will never happen.

hope they are docked wages for the strikes also. privatising all these companies is the only way to go, enough is enough.

Sierra Oscar

devnull wrote: »

According to a tweet on Twitter, GoBE Services are being disrupted by strikers:
https://twitter.com/ronanbagnall/status/333879220516298754

That is not all that surprising considering Bus Éireann are involved in the operation of GoBe.

devnull wrote: »

What I heard the unions say over the weekend is the union are happy to talk but they will not accept any cuts and when asked to come up with alternatives, they said that was not going to happen either.

In fairness, the NBRU have been on the airwaves all morning saying that they are willing to negotiate without any preconditions. Management however have been reluctant to agree to negotiations without preconditions, and have made it clear that they are under pressure from 'outside' sources not to cave in. Meaningful talks wont get under way until the preconditions are done away with, that is a basic principle when it comes to resolving industrial disputes.

Also, it is not the job of the union to come up with detailed cost alternatives. They are not management, and do not have access to the information that management do have access to regarding the operation of the company. They would be going beyond their remit if they started demanding in detail as to how every aspect of the company should be run. Also, there is more than one union than NBRU representing Bus Éireann workers. This idea of the union having to come up with a detailed comprehensive business plan is just a sound byte, and management know it cannot occur. They can make suggestions of course, but expecting the union to come up with a complete business plan is just absurd.

devnull

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Considering Bus Éireann are involved in the operation of GoBe.

They're not involved in the operation very much at all - all it is really is a co-branding agreement and cross marketing agreement between the two companies with BE likely to have put some money in and an agreement for BE to allow GoBus to use their facilities for the route.

The vehicles are being run by GoBus (leased from Bernard Kavanagh)
The drivers are employed by Bernard Kavanagh
The vehicles are stored in a depot owned by Bernard Kavanagh
The Route license holder is GoBus

In fairness, the NBRU have been on the airwaves all morning saying that they are willing to negotiate without any preconditions. Management however have been reluctant to agree to negotiations without preconditions,

Earlier in the weekend they stated that they would not accept any cuts but they were prepared to talk. If their position has changed however that is to be welcomed and hopefully it will shift this along some more.

This idea of the union having to come up with a detailed comprehensive business plan is just a sound byte, and management know it cannot occur. They can make suggestions of course, but expecting the union to come up with a complete business plan is just absurd.

Of course for them to come up with a business plan isn't realistic at all so I agree with you on that, Iw as more talking about realistic suggestions.

Problem123456

How long is this expected to go on for?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

devnull

More on the GoBe Situation:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/bus-eireann-strike-escalates-in-cork-594237.html

How can they be strike breaking? None of the staff driving the vehicles work for Bus Eireann so they couldn't go on strike anyway.

Needless to say none of this will help the company, since it'll be a few more passengers now who will consider switching to Aircoach, it's completely counter productive.

bk

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

That is not all that surprising considering Bus Éireann are involved in the operation of GoBe.

Nope:

- GoBE is fully owned by GoBus/Evobus
- The route license is fully held by GoBus/Evobus
- The coaches are owned by Bernard Kavangh coaches and operated under contract from GoBus
- The drivers all work for Bernard Kavanagh
- The coaches are operated out of a private depot (not BE).

GoBus has an arrangement with BE to use BE bus stations, co-brand the service and do some marketing on the BE website.

Given that the GoBus drivers these BE drivers are trying to block from earning a wage are probably on much less wages and inferior conditions to the BE drivers, this is pretty sickening carry on and certainly won't gain the BE drivers any sympathy from the public.

I assume that they aren't actually blocking the service from leaving and being used, as to do so would be illegal on a public road and footpath. I assume it is just a publicity stunt, they can stand there and protest, but can't stop it from operating.

devnull

GoBe are now going to move their services from Cork to Dublin to right next to the Aircoach and Citylink stop on Patrick's Quay now as a response to this.

That'll be interesting for several reasons.

Victor

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Also, it is not the job of the union to come up with detailed cost alternatives. They are not management, and do not have access to the information that management do have access to regarding the operation of the company. They would be going beyond their remit if they started demanding in detail as to how every aspect of the company should be run. Also, there is more than one union than NBRU representing Bus Éireann workers. This idea of the union having to come up with a detailed comprehensive business plan is just a sound byte, and management know it cannot occur. They can make suggestions of course, but expecting the union to come up with a complete business plan is just absurd.

I don't think anyone is expecting them to run the company. However, staff are often aware of places where savings can be made.

devnull wrote: »

GoBe are now going to move their services from Cork to Dublin to right next to the Aircoach and Citylink stop on Patrick's Quay now as a response to this.

That'll be interesting for several reasons.

That has been happening since yesterday.

bk

I wonder what effect this will have on the future relationship between BE and GoBus.

Will this end up breaking the contract between GoBus and BE? Maybe GoBus will switch to operating from these stops permanently.

devnull

Victor wrote: »

That has been happening since yesterday.

Really? the bus that was blocked earlier was at Merchants Quay, and GoBus were saying up to 15 minutes ago that they were still operating from there, but now they're saying they're moving everything.

This is certainly Merchants Quay:
http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gobe2.jpg

musicinmouth

If anyone is stranded, Cork company Avego (www.avego.com) is helping people to organize lifts in real time.

Victor

devnull wrote: »

Really? the bus that was blocked earlier was at Merchants Quay, and GoBus were saying up to 15 minutes ago that they were still operating from there, but now they're saying they're moving everything.

This is certainly Merchants Quay:
http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gobe2.jpg

Sorry, yes you are right.

To correct what I said, they haven't been operating from the bus station since yesterday.

Kumsheen

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

That is not all that surprising considering Bus Éireann are involved in the operation of GoBe.



In fairness, the NBRU have been on the airwaves all morning saying that they are willing to negotiate without any preconditions. Management however have been reluctant to agree to negotiations without preconditions, and have made it clear that they are under pressure from 'outside' sources not to cave in. Meaningful talks wont get under way until the preconditions are done away with, that is a basic principle when it comes to resolving industrial disputes.

Also, it is not the job of the union to come up with detailed cost alternatives. They are not management, and do not have access to the information that management do have access to regarding the operation of the company. They would be going beyond their remit if they started demanding in detail as to how every aspect of the company should be run. Also, there is more than one union than NBRU representing Bus Éireann workers. This idea of the union having to come up with a detailed comprehensive business plan is just a sound byte, and management know it cannot occur. They can make suggestions of course, but expecting the union to come up with a complete business plan is just absurd.

I think the negotiations have gone on long enough and it's impossible to be resolved between BE and the unions themselves. It's probably better just to bring this to a head once and for all and be done with it..

It's really now down to either increased funding or cuts, and the ball is really in the government's court rather than with BE management.

The union is gambling on government intervention to resolve this. My prediction is that the govt will partially give in and we will see some watered down version of cuts eventually agreed.
But the long term effects of this dispute will probably see the govt expedite the opening up more and more bus licenses to private operators, and gradually shrink BE more and more.

Anybody else have any predictions on the final outcome?

n97 mini

Kumsheen wrote: »

Anybody else have any predictions on the final outcome?

Capitulation by the company or the govt. Did any dispute involving a semi state or public sector ever end any other way?

Kumsheen

n97 mini wrote: »

Capitulation by the company or the govt. Did any dispute involving a semi state or public sector ever end any other way?

I can't think of any myself.

P_1

Bad move PR wise by the drivers blocking in the GoBus bus. I can't see the general public having much sympathy to the drivers the longer this carries on

Victor

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

And this when the country is struggling and nurses and the Garda are being paid less. What a ****ing joke, the irony of these people going on about greed, what a bunch of ****ing hypocrites. Makes my blood boil,, hope the lot of you lose your jobs.

Tone it down and stay on topic.

Moderator

jimmycrackcorm

I don't think the government will give in, primarily because they are not linked hands on with BE si they can simply wash their hands of it and say it's up to BE to manage their finances. But also to give in would send a wrong message during the current Croke park round.

Why can't the unions accept that you get good conditions when things go well but when things aren't so good then you have to accept cuts?

kravmaga

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Payroll costs of €266million in 2010 and 2011 combined, yet one of the most overpaid workforces in the world goes on strike when cuts come in?

absolutely disgraceful, Unions are constantly holding this country to randsom and its about time somebody stood up to them, sadly it will never happen.

hope they are docked wages for the strikes also. privatising all these companies is the only way to go, enough is enough.

+1 Agree with you.
Some of the drivers are earning up to 47k pa and more on O/T and all these outdated allowances.
BE-Company is losing 200k a day whilst staff are out on strike.

BE has lost 27million Euro over the past 5 yrs??? CEO lives in Dubai apparently. That says it all.

Aircoach and any other private operator will gain business and a new customer base the longer the strike goes on.

Sounds like this is a lose lose situation for BE workers/Management.

NBRU was always a very militant union.

bk

Some interesting questions being asked in some quarters.

NTA actually own the licenses for the PSO routes and the buses used on these routes. If the strike goes on, could the NTA pull the licenses and buses off BE and hand them to a private operator to operate?

Even if this doesn't happen, this strike makes it much more likely that when the licenses go up for re-tendering in 2014, that they will lose at least some licenses to the private sector.

Rumour has it that some private companies had already applied for licenses to shadow the 109 route.

The private services to the likes of Cork, Limerick, Galway issued in the last year seem to have done well in blunting the impact of this strike and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the government extend private operators to more routes in future.

Very bad move by the BE staff.