Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

candy19

mrmac wrote: »

Coming from Letterkenny.
Looks like I may have to go by Ulsterbus from Derry to Belfast, and from there to Dublin. Means nearly 6 hours on a bus, and then another 4 hours waiting at the airport - but only option I can see, if the strike continues for a few days.

Can you not get mc ginleys bus from mr chippys??

devnull

Have you looked at here if the times suit?
http://www.johnmcginley.com/docs/timetable_09.pdf

Note that Dublin to Belfast will have reduced service as well as the route is run both by Bus Eireann and Ulsterbus staff, around half of the departures are operated by each so this has curtailed the service by around 50%.

The following services from Belfast to Dublin are not running:
0300 / 0500 / 1000 / 1100 /1200 /1300/ 1800 / 1900/ 2000/ 2100

You should consider Aircoach non-stop from Belfast to Dublin Airport who are running 22 times daily if the above causes you problems.
http://www.aircoach.ie/media/Belfast%20120612.pdf

Victor

Leverarchfile wrote: »

Management is a unions problem ? lol only in Ireland where Irish management cannot even manage a cat.

So instead of cutting ordinary bus drivers wages, how about cutting banker wages and the € 2 billion euro in fees being paid to a few private legal firms in Dublin for SCAMA ? How about also cutting management's wages in BE for a change ? Hmmmm ?

I'm not allowing you to derail the thread. It does a disservice to all.

Moderator

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

Because it sends a signal out that every time a part of the state loses money, rather than address internal issues they will just get handed more money and that is money that the country does not have at the moment and simply cannot afford.

Then next time the company will lose money they will ask for even more, then the next year more after that, other sectors will do the same, thinking, hey why should I work hard when even if we do perform poorly we will be bailed out.

We are spending more than we are taking in and your answer is to spend more money? Seriously

But it is not losing money, if it had the SAME money it received the previous year from state for the PSO it would be ok. It is not about asking for more it is actually asking for just the same amount despite the rise in costs of fuel etc.

The issues are that the state wants to pay less for the same service and the company want the shift workers to carry the can for it.

If you want to talk about rewarding failure that is exactly what this state has done to you know who to the tune of billions and expect bus drivers to pay for it. is what is happening here.

Trampas

Is this strike going to run everyday until it is resolved or are drivers going to work tomorrow and strike again another day?

mrmac

Thanks folks, for the suggestions, but the only alternative that gets me there in time is using Ulster Bus (via Belfast). Takes ages, but seems my only choice; that is if the strike continues???

cdebru

Victor wrote: »

Then the staff and unions need to work 'smarter'. There is a limited pot of money and a specified requirement for savings. As additional income is difficult to obtain, those savings can come from pay related items or they can come from other things. The staff and unions need to identify other savings if they don't want pay to be cut. It may not be the staff and unions' fault, but it is their problem.

For example, with the new ticket machines with the thermal printers, a Bus Éireann ticket is twice the size of Dublin Bus ticket. Changing the spacing on the ticket would cut the paper cost in two.

When I was in Cork a few weeks ago, I was on two trips where the "driver's mate" scenario was delaying services. That needs to be knocked on the head - it is unsafe (driver is distracted and can't see out left doors / mirrors properly) and annoys passengers, driving them to other transport options.

At Busáras, drivers at Gate 14 (Luas stop) refuse to pull all they way to the front, making pulling-in difficult for other drivers also delaying services.


The public service obligation amount paid by the National Transport Authority (ultimately from the Department of Transport) isn't linked to the amount paid from the Department of Social Protection for the Free Travel Pass.

Because if you want he government to fund that €5million, it has to come off something else - health, education, etc.

Surely it is up to management to find an acceptable and fair way to implement any changes, it is not the function of a union to manage the company for them.


BTW

Why whenever a top banker is revealed to be earning absurd amount of money some government minister is wheeled out to say it is his contract can't be changed shrugs shoulders " nothing we can do" unfortunately. Yet bus drivers in BE also have a contract but apparently BE can change said contract whenever they choose without any agreement?

Eh someone is lying either contracts can be changed without agreement or they can't which is it?

wotausername

are city/town services affected by the strike aswell?

Victor

wotausername wrote: »

are city/town services affected by the strike aswell?

Those operated by Bus Éireann, yes.

whitebriar

bk wrote: »

Unfortunately given that wages make up over 60% of Bus Eireanns operating expenses, then yes the only real option is to cut wages.

Of course, other areas should also be looked at like the marketing budget, buying new coaches, management wages, etc.

However even if you cut all of these, you would still have to cut drivers and mechanics wages due to the fact that they make up by far the largest expense at the company.

Do you continue to cut wages though to compensate for the rise in other costs,which if you've cut wages are obviously going to be the loss maker culprit going forward.

That won't work either.

Something will give in the other direction too,incentive to work being one.
That's the flip side of the question 'where do we stop Putting the money in.

The way I see it hard questions need solving.
We the taxpayer either set a level of service we won't go below,a fair wage for this and freeze it.
We either want these bus routes or we don't.

I'm not party to any discussions but both sides and especially the government aren't managing.Time to be thinking outside of the box before we have a bigger bill at BE.

devnull

We the taxpayer either set a level of service we won't go below,a fair wage for this and freeze it.
We either want these bus routes or we don't.

If it was a fair wage though and people were badly paid with terrible terms and conditions I think most people would agree, but the facts are that the terms and conditions that the striking staff get many people lost a long time ago or in a lot of case some never had because their companies, who are not funded by the state simply could not afford to carry them on anymore.

Taxpayers are not happy about paying for some people to have terms and condition in the public sector that are not sustainable in the current climate. Stuff like having paid meal allowances should not exist, overtime should not be being used constantly as that is not what over-time is supposed to be for and a lot of the allowances that are paid are way out of whack to what is going on elsewhere.

I keep hearing that the terms and conditions would not be fair, but the staff in Bus Eireann, Irish rail and Dublin Bus are paid a good percentage more than people doing the same jobs in the private sector and in comparison to other countries where the same jobs are carried out.

And you know that angers the workers who lost all of the terms and conditions years ago or never had that you guys are trying to hold on to? Not only do you want to keep those when everyone else has lost them, you want more of the taxpayers money ploughed into the company just to rub it in, the money from the people who have it far less better than you.

As said before I have sympathy with staff to some degree as I do indeed believe that management can do more to put less of the burden on the front line staff and that is a problem, but the front line staff cannot go on thinking they are not going to make aby contribution because quite simply they have to, if they don't realise that then my sympathy will run out.

Benny_Cake

This may sound like a stupid question but I just want to rule it out - are other transport providers (Irish Rail, private bus operators) accepting Bus Eireann annual Taxsaver tickets? I'm guessing the answer is no.

devnull

Latest statement from the NBRU General Secretary is saying that they are concerned at the Minister for Transports comments that the union should look for alternative cost saving measures and has said that is never going to happen. This is in addition to saying a couple of days ago that there was no way they would accept any cuts. It seems they just wish to carry on as is.

Needless to say it looks like this could drag on a while yet unfortunately

Del2005

whitebriar wrote: »

Its a Public Service,Publically owned bus company,so why aren't the government increasing the subvention by the measley 5 million it's currently losing and freezing all wages at current levels,Pegging future fare rises/falls to what happens from this day out to all other costs,and following that with a discussion on profit sharing with the employee's?

cdebru wrote: »

But it is not losing money, if it had the SAME money it received the previous year from state for the PSO it would be ok. It is not about asking for more it is actually asking for just the same amount despite the rise in costs of fuel etc.

The issues are that the state wants to pay less for the same service and the company want the shift workers to carry the can for it.

If you want to talk about rewarding failure that is exactly what this state has done to you know who to the tune of billions and expect bus drivers to pay for it. is what is happening here.

The country doesn't have the €5 million to give. The total tax take for Ireland it ~€30bn and we spend ~€50, how is that sustainable?

cdebru wrote: »

Surely it is up to management to find an acceptable and fair way to implement any changes, it is not the function of a union to manage the company for them.

The unions where happy enough to agree with management when money was being thrown at them through social partnership. Now they have to prove their worth and try and save their members jobs as that's what's on the line here, lower working conditions or no work when the company goes bust.

It's no good saying no we won't accept pay and allowance cuts unless they offer an alternative that'll save a similar amount without affecting pay and conditions. The problem is that there's nothing that save that much.

the_syco

mrmac wrote: »

Does anyone know how long the stike is expected to last?
Desperately trying to work out alternative transport to Dublin Airport, for a dawn flight Tuesday morning!

Check the trains?
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4820&ci=6&p=116&n=131

Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail has advised customers that train services are operating normally, and are not affected by industrial action at Bus Éireann.

Iarnród Éireann is not a party to this dispute.

Check the route using translink.co.uk (random day), on the off chance that the bus companies depend on BE drivers?

=-=

€60 to fly from Donegal at 17:10 to Dublin 18:00 on Monday (found it on skyscanner.ie).

mrmac

the_syco wrote: »

Check the trains?
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4820&ci=6&p=116&n=131

Check the route using translink.co.uk (random day), on the off chance that the bus companies depend on BE drivers?

=-=

€60 to fly from Donegal at 17:10 to Dublin 18:00 on Monday (found it on skyscanner.ie).

Trains???
Means I'd still have to get to either Sligo or Belfast, but either way, won't get me there in time.

Translink / Goldline, this is the all night trek that I will probably have to take. 2 hours to Belfast, 2 hour wait, 2 hours to Airport, 3 hour wait - but looks like only choice.

Getting the plane is a no-no, as my college exam isn't over until 5.30pm, and I reckon I'm going to need every second!

Thanks anyway!

BTW - I've posted a "longshot" in the Donegal forum, in case anyone has a spare seat going to the airport Tuesday morning - no harmin asking .....

sofireland

Benny_Cake wrote: »

This may sound like a stupid question but I just want to rule it out - are other transport providers (Irish Rail, private bus operators) accepting Bus Eireann annual Taxsaver tickets? I'm guessing the answer is no.

Was thinking the same myself. Nothing mentioned on any of the other CIE sites.
Myself and the missus now have to drive to M3 parkway to get the train in for as long as this goes on.
Considering we both shell out 2.5k for our Tax Saver passes would we be able to claim money back from BE?

schemingbohemia

sofireland wrote: »

Was thinking the same myself. Nothing mentioned on any of the other CIE sites.
Myself and the missus now have to drive to M3 parkway to get the train in for as long as this goes on.
Considering we both shell out 2.5k for our Tax Saver passes would we be able to claim money back from BE?

Claim the money back from the NBRU!

Sierra Oscar

The General Secretary of the NBRU has signalled that he expects that the strike will spread throughout CIÉ if it is allowed continue. That would shut down Iarnród Éireann, Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann.

Victor

sofireland wrote: »

Considering we both shell out 2.5k for our Tax Saver passes would we be able to claim money back from BE?

You should be entitled to a refund calculated on a daily basis from whoever supplied the ticket.

sofireland

I was thinking more the money for train fare etc that we will have to spend. Be at least 6 euro a day plus the petrol to get to the park n ride.

My employer bought the pass from Bus Eireann for me. So BE do the refund?

devnull

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The General Secretary of the NBRU has signalled that he expects that the strike will spread throughout CIÉ if it is allowed continue..

Sure, the strike has nothing to do with them does it?

hmmm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The General Secretary of the NBRU has signalled that he expects that the strike will spread throughout CIÉ if it is allowed continue. That would shut down Iarnród Éireann, Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann.

I'm not sure what's in it for the workers in the other companies. If BE employees "win" their strike, it will benefit all the CIE company staff. If they "lose", the only people who lose money are the BE workers.

If everyone goes out, there is likely to be a ferocious backlash from the travelling public, and it comes at a time where the government simply hasn't the money to give in to their demands. There would never be a better time for them to introduce fundamental change in the way our public transport system operates.

The other "advantage" to the government for having a transport strike is that striking transport workers are not seen by the public as particularly sympathetic. Striking teachers and nurses bring emotional responses, striking bus or train drivers only brings anger and irritation. If the government knows that they will have to face down some public sector strikes, having transport workers first out of the blocks would be a godsend in terms of PR.

Outkast_IRE

If it carries on for any decent period , people will start carpooling more- if they do this for any period of time they will realise why the hell would they bother going back to the bus.

Sierra Oscar

devnull wrote: »

Sure, the strike has nothing to do with them does it?

Well Iarnród Éireann and Dublin Bus workers are clashing with management also over cost cutting proposals, but you are right in saying that this conflict is confined to Bus Éireann.

Not exactly sure as to how it would spread to Iarnród Éireann and Dublin Bus.

devnull

I more was referring to the comments by the union saying if the strike was allowed to carry on.

The word allowed makes it seems like the strike is not something they have any control over.

Sierra Oscar

devnull wrote: »

I more was referring to the comments by the union saying if the strike was allowed to carry on.

The word allowed makes it seems like the strike is not something they have any control over.

Apologies, I was not quoting directly - he meant if it was to continue. Basically trying to get management to be the ones to press for negotiations by the sounds of it, which could lead to concessions.

cdebru

Del2005 wrote: »

The country doesn't have the €5 million to give. The total tax take for Ireland it ~€30bn and we spend ~€50, how is that sustainable?




The unions where happy enough to agree with management when money was being thrown at them through social partnership. Now they have to prove their worth and try and save their members jobs as that's what's on the line here, lower working conditions or no work when the company goes bust.

It's no good saying no we won't accept pay and allowance cuts unless they offer an alternative that'll save a similar amount without affecting pay and conditions. The problem is that there's nothing that save that much.

Actually total revenue was 56.6 billion and total expenditure was 68.8 billion in 2012 of which almost 6 billion was in interest payments ( look up rewarding failure). But it was a gap 12.2 billion not 20 billion so I just saved us 7.8 billion given your cribbing about 5 million you would think you wouldn't let 7.8 billion slip past you but you did.

What is not sustainable is taking money out of the pockets of workers year after year in tax increases, charges, prsi allowance and pay cuts and expecting the country to recover.

The problem is that the cuts as currently arranged target those that work shifts almost exclusively, why should it only be those workers who are expected to carry the can ? When BE spokesman says they are protecting core pay what he means is that the management and administration will not lose a penny as they don't work shifts.

cdebru

devnull wrote: »

I more was referring to the comments by the union saying if the strike was allowed to carry on.

The word allowed makes it seems like the strike is not something they have any control over.

It is not something they have control over. BE has made unilateral changes to employment contracts. ( you know the employment contracts we are always told can't be touched when some enormous wage or pension is uncovered in the banking sector). Working would be de facto accepting those changes so it is not under their control.

Delta2113

"Not exactly sure as to how it would spread to Iarnród Éireann and Dublin Bus."



- Very easy e.g. if a BE worker is suspended or if BE workers start picketing Dublin Bus garages for an example.