Vigil for mothers and unborn babies in Knock with alleged PAEDO protector Sean Brady

Turtwig

Obliq wrote: »

WHAT? Robin always had buns and hugs and stuff when people hated each other's opinions and would have liked to throw buns.....

I might have ate them.
What buns?

Hugs I can do.

Obliq

Perfect I'm loving my riot gear....

Nodin

MGMCH wrote: »

As I said previously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't think its hard to show respect......

And again - why should people pretend to respect something or someone they have no respect for?

catallus wrote:

Using belligerent abuse (calling an innocent man a "paedo")

"paedo protector", to quote the thread title. Not entirely inaccurate, all things considered.

Obliq

Bridge93 wrote: »

I certainly hope your view is right about the whole of the country because I left school recently. Of the 200 students in my year in a Catholic school, assuming all were to vote I'd be willing to put money on that 195 would be pro choice. That is only one school in south Dublin so hopefully it is the same across Ireland.

I think so Bridge, I'm looking at my kids now who're a few years younger than you and I'd say similar to your numbers, and that's from a very small village in rural Ireland. Call me an idealist but like nowanatheist said "individual grumblings on these boards do not have the same effect as their direct lobbying in the dail." Your generation will have the numbers (as a previous poster who met a terrible fate in the mediation disapproval section may have noticed) to say to politicians that equal rights is something they didn't expect to have to fight for in the 2000's, and their seat is contingent on your vote.

recedite

Looks like The Brady Bunch have departed A&A without even trying to defend their hero. Well if that ain't blind obedience, and the very definition of the culture of deference, I dont know what is.

Turtwig

recedite wrote: »

Looks like The Brady Bunch have departed A&A without even trying to defend their hero. Well if that ain't blind obedience, and the very definition of the culture of deference, I dont know what is.

It's also midnight.:p
Mass in the morning perhaps?

Obliq

The pumpkin stood me up. Th'bollix.

Obliq

Jernal wrote: »

It's also midnight.:p
Mass in the morning perhaps?

Oh jaysus....the walk of shame. F*CK!!

Turtwig

Obliq wrote: »

Oh jaysus....the walk of shame. F*CK!!

Correction : The March of Shame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MM3KkF5urY

Pretzill

My view on this as I'm Agnostic perhaps Athiest (typical agnostic hedging my bets) yes this could be construed as ironic on one hand dispicable on the other - I'm pro choice I also wonder where all the so called pro lifers come out of in debates like this but I don't hold with organised religion and I wonder why so many here seem to be so perturbed by the Rc religion that flame inducing threads like this start leave them to their narrow ignorance please

Sarky

Heh, Brady Bunch. That's a classic, I'm stealing that.

Obliq

Jernal wrote: »

Correction : The March of Shame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MM3KkF5urY

Yup, that one. All damned to hell, so we are. Conceiving of a WHOLE HUMAN BABY just like that. How dare women make it that easy?

All those unborn babies just walkin home, doing the march of shame with their mammy's skirts between their legs. Leaving those hands-on dads behind in their bedsits, who'd just love to give up college and go to work for the sake of the family....those sluts only had to tell them they were pregnant, then it'd all kick in right? The childcare, the housework, the school runs when you're not the one working....

Oh, I pity the young women coming up now, unaware that their "equality" does not entitle them to equality.

Dades

MGMCH taking a break for continually turning this thread into some perceived mods vs righteous posters battle (some OT posts deleted). Death by cop, as it were.

As you were.

Sarky

Isn't the term usually suicide by... Oh, you wanted to avoid a panel of doctors, I see.

Dades

The rules are a lot more clearly legislated for here on Boards.

Nodin

Obliq wrote: »

What a strange thing to complain about catallus. Surely a person can generate mass hatred by the things he has done?




This has gone too far eh? I need to talk to a priest, asap. In fact I think I'll look for a meeting with a few of them. The IRISH Catholic church, as opposed to the ROMAN Catholic church should separate from Vatican rule over this issue. The priests we can talk to need to be talked to, politely, by as many people who want to know WHY exactly this church denies the reality of so many women's lives. In fact, there are good priests who'd love to stop letting Vatican thought police run your holy show.

I'll be robbing that one.

Mark Hamill

catallus wrote: »

I can understand the attraction of using the current moral stance on the issue of child-abuse and using it as a basis of castigating the behaviour of people in the past: it gives great succour to us insofar as that we feel morally superior to those who did not act to prevent such abuse. But this feeling must be seen to be false: the social culture at the time was one of turning a blind eye, whatever the cost. And any thinking person must be able to see that nailing people to the wall because they didn't live up to the present standard is disingenuous at best and bigoted misrepresentation at worst.

Wait, so the church and its representatives just follow the social culture of the time, it/they don't have or espouse any (objective) rules or morality? Well then, to paraphrase Stephen Fry, what is it for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGFS_hkHfCc

the culture of deference

catallus wrote: »

It is worrying that there is such unbridled hatred on display for people who wish to voice their deeply held beliefs on any issue.

The OP is an example of the stupidity he decries.

are you david from iona?

you don't find the idea of this horrifying.

BBC's This World programme.

It found Cardinal Sean Brady had names and addresses of those being abused by paedophile priest Brendan Smyth IN 1975.
However, he did not pass on those details to police or parents.


Cardinal Brady said he accepted he was part of "an unhelpful culture of deference and silence in society, and the Church".


"With others, I feel betrayed that those who had the authority in the Church to stop Brendan Smyth failed to act on the evidence I gave them,"



"However, I also accept that I was part of an unhelpful culture of deference and silence in society, and the Church, which thankfully is now a thing of the past."


The cardinal said he was "shocked, appalled and outraged" by Smyth and said he had trusted that those with the authority to act in relation to Smyth would treat the evidence seriously and respond appropriately.

"much of the coverage of my role in this inquiry gives the impression that I was the only person who knew of the allegations against Brendan Smyth and somehow had the power to stop Brendan Smyth in 1975.



"I had absolutely no authority over Brendan Smyth. Even my Bishop had limited authority over him. The only people who had authority within the Church to stop Brendan Smyth from having contact with children were his Abbot in the Monastery in Kilnacrott and his Religious Superiors in the Norbertine Order."


Fr Brady was a note taker in 1975 he was sent by his bishop to investigate a claim of child sexual abuse by a fellow priest.


That priest was later exposed as Ireland's most prolific paedophile, Father Brendan Smyth


Sean Brady had been present when the abused boy was questioned.
He claimed, however, that the boy's father had accompanied him, and described his own role as that of a note-taker.
However, the BBC This World investigation has uncovered the notes Cardinal Brady took while the boy was questioned.
The child's father was not allowed in the room, and the child was immediately sworn to secrecy.



What Cardinal Brady failed to tell anyone in 2010 was that Brendan Boland had also given him and his colleagues the precise details of a group of children, some of whom, were being abused by Smyth.

This World spoke to all of the children who Brendan Boland had identified; they all told the bbc none of their parents or families were warned in any way about the paedophile Brendan Smyth.


The Catholic Church has said that "the sole purpose of the oath" signed by Brendan Boland in Cardinal Brady's presence was "to give greater force and integrity to the evidence given by Mr Boland against any counter claim by Fr Brendan Smyth".


The church also points out that in 1975, "no state or church guidelines for responding to allegations of child abuse existed in Ireland".
against someone who not only endangered children but let them be abused.


Andrew Madden, abuse survivor and author of a memoir, said:


"He's not a wounded healer - he's a spineless self-serving careerist and that's why he kept his mouth shut all the years Brendan Smyth was abusing children"

MGMCH wrote: »

As I said previously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't think its hard to show respect. Every accused person is entitled to a fair trial. People jumping on the bandwagon presuming they know all the facts just incite more hatred in others and ruin lives.

READ ABOVE

catallus wrote: »

I'm not excusing anything, I'm taking issue with the OP using idiotic name calling the blacken a group of protesters. I don't even agree with what they want, but it's hard to watch such dumb arguments being used against them.

READ ABOVE

Gbear

Nodin wrote: »

And again - why should people pretend to respect something or someone they have no respect for?

Indeed, lying and pretending you respect someone or something is an even deeper condescension and lack of respect.

Not only do you not respect them but you don't even respect them enough to tell them the truth.

Lucy8080

I don't think Cardinal Brady's a bad man. That's what bothers me.

In the face of abuse of children , authority and procedure was privileged over the needs/rights of the child.

That's brainwashing.It needs to be faced.

Lapin

Jernal wrote: »

I would also like to remind posters here that Mr Brady has not been convicted of anything. Allegations have been made that is all.

True. But at very least His 'Eminence' should have the good grace to stand aside and withdraw from public life while an investigation into his alleged role in covering up for child rapists is conducted.

nowanathiest wrote: »

Cardinal Brady admitted that he had not informed the police of criminal activities within his organisation, by subordinates whom he had responsibilty for..........

It is for this reason that those who turned up to listen to the Cardinal in Knock on Saturday should hang their heads in shame. Regardless of how many thousands claim to have been there.

nowanathiest

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I don't think Cardinal Brady's a bad man. That's what bothers me.

In the face of abuse of children , authority and procedure was privileged over the needs/rights of the child.

That's brainwashing.It needs to be faced.

I think it's a little deeper than that. Remember that church hierarchy view themselves as only being subject to cannon law, not common law. The Vatican is a sovereign nation, subject only to it's own laws, hence I don't think it's too far a step to surmise that these gentlemen would not only be irritated at the suggestion that they be held accountable for common law transgression, but actually believe that the end justifies the means, after all they are doing God's work and what's a little collateral damage in the great scheme of things?

If you scan the decades of their activities in Ireland, one factor stands out for me - that in their view, there are people who matter and people who don't, and though we may be horrified at their behaviour and wonder at their brass neck and seeming failure to account, please remember that this is a very wealthy global organisation, who are used to taking hard knocks and will re-group successfully over time.

They were thrown out of England (in whatever century) and had their wings clipped somewhat during this time........but look at how strongly they reverberated. They have survived the sexual abuse scandals in Ireland and the US. It would be a mistake to underestimate them.

Lucy8080

nowanathiest wrote: »

I think it's a little deeper than that. Remember that church hierarchy view themselves as only being subject to cannon law, not common law. The Vatican is a sovereign nation, subject only to it's own laws, hence I don't think it's too far a step to surmise that these gentlemen would not only be irritated at the suggestion that they be held accountable for common law transgression, but actually believe that the end justifies the means, after all they are doing God's work and what's a little collateral damage in the great scheme of things?

If you scan the decades of their activities in Ireland, one factor stands out for me - that in their view, there are people who matter and people who don't, and though we may be horrified at their behaviour and wonder at their brass neck and seeming failure to account, please remember that this is a very wealthy global organisation, who are used to taking hard knocks and will re-group successfully over time.

They were thrown out of England (in whatever century) and had their wings clipped somewhat during this time........but look at how strongly they reverberated. They have survived the sexual abuse scandals in Ireland and the US. It would be a mistake to underestimate them.

Yup, cannon law, and the authority invested in it, seems to have some kind of hypnotic affect over what would be,ordinarily, decent people.

the culture of deference

Murphy Report

The Cardinal told RTÉ News in an interview,

“If I found myself in a situation where I was aware that my failure to act had allowed or meant that other children were abused, well then, I think I would resign.”

NOTORIOUS paedophile priest Brendan Smyth abused 30 or more children in the years after Cardinal Sean Brady failed to report his crimes, a former RUC officer has revealed

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/church-in-crisis-at-least-30-abused-after-cardinal-brady-didnt-report-smyth-26849528.html

Labour Party spokesman on social and family affairs Róisín Shortall TD, said Cardinal Brady was "hopelessly compromised by what has emerged". She said, “There should be a Garda investigation to determine whether or not the failure to report Fr Smyth's crimes to the civil authorities was, itself, a criminal offence."[25] Many other senior figures called on him to resign.




Here is how Brady justifies this sh1t in his own head.

"* Even according to the State guidelines in place in the Republic of Ireland today, the person who first receives and records the details of an allegation of child abuse in an organisation that works with children is not the person who has responsibility within that organisation for reporting the matter to the civil authorities. This responsibility belongs to the ‘Designated person’ appointed by the organisation"

"*much of the coverage of my role in this Inquiry gives the impression that I was the only person who knew of the allegations against Brendan Smyth

I had absolutely no authority over Brendan Smyth.

Even my Bishop had limited authority over him.

his Abbot in the Monastery in Kilnacrott and his Religious Superiors in the Norbertine Order did. it was Brendan Smyth’s superiors in the Norbertine Order who bear primary responsibility for failing to take the appropriate action when presented with the weight of evidence I had faithfully recorded and that Bishop McKiernan subsequently presented to them;

"* the power to act effectively to remove Brendan Smyth from priestly ministry lay exclusively with the Abbot of Holy Trinity Abbey in Kilnacrott and his superiors in the Norbertine Order. This is where the sincere efforts of Bishop McKiernan and others like Fr Brady to prevent Brendan Smyth from perpetrating further harm were frustrated, with tragic consequences for the lives of so many children. We have all learned from the tragic experience of the Church in Ireland.’;

"* I assumed and trusted that when Bishop McKiernan brought the evidence to the Abbot of Kilnacrott that the Abbot would then have dealt decisively with Brendan Smyth and prevented him from abusing others. ;

joseph brand

the culture of deference wrote: »

Murphy Report

The Cardinal told RTÉ News in an interview,

“If I found myself in a situation where I was aware that my failure to act had allowed or meant that other children were abused, well then, I think I would resign.”

NOTORIOUS paedophile priest Brendan Smyth abused 30 or more children in the years after Cardinal Sean Brady failed to report his crimes, a former RUC officer has revealed

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/church-in-crisis-at-least-30-abused-after-cardinal-brady-didnt-report-smyth-26849528.html

Labour Party spokesman on social and family affairs Róisín Shortall TD, said Cardinal Brady was "hopelessly compromised by what has emerged". She said, “There should be a Garda investigation to determine whether or not the failure to report Fr Smyth's crimes to the civil authorities was, itself, a criminal offence."[25] Many other senior figures called on him to resign.




Here is how Brady justifies this sh1t in his own head.


"* I assumed and trusted that when Bishop McKiernan brought the evidence to the Abbot of Kilnacrott that the Abbot would then have dealt decisively with Brendan Smyth and prevented him from abusing others. ;

Spoken like a politician. "Not to my recollection." "As far as I am aware."

Cunning little phrases, used by cute hoors which 'absolve' the person of guilt since they haven't stated clearly, but ambiguously. If anyone is well-versed in nebulous waffle, it's the celibate men in dog collars.

electro222

It is quite likely that in 30 or 40 yera time people will look back and think how awful it was that we allowed people sit into tin boxes and move them around at high speeds (cars) causing hundreds of deathes every year,
But that is the norm for our society in the times we live in,
Equally and worrying Society may look back in 40 yeras time and think how awful it was that adults who had sex with children were put in prison.
Look at Societys attitude to homosexuality today in comparison to 30, 40, or 50 years ago.
The point I am making is that socitial norms are norms at that point in time.
Hindsight is a harsh master

Bannasidhe

electro222 wrote: »

It is quite likely that in 30 or 40 yera time people will look back and think how awful it was that we allowed people sit into tin boxes and move them around at high speeds (cars) causing hundreds of deathes every year,
But that is the norm for our society in the times we live in,
Equally and worrying Society may look back in 40 yeras time and think how awful it was that adults who had sex with children were put in prison.
Look at Societys attitude to homosexuality today in comparison to 30, 40, or 50 years ago.
The point I am making is that socitial norms are norms at that point in time.
Hindsight is a harsh master

Firstly - at which point did Irish society believe it was ok to rape children?
Never. That's when.
At no point in time was the rape of children a sociotal norm in Ireland.
Not in Gaelic Ireland.
Not in the Lordship of Ireland.
Not in the Kingdom of Ireland.
Not in the Confederation of Ireland
Not in the Irish Free State.
Not in the Irish Republic.

Never. Ever. EVER.

Brady was one of those who enabled the likes of Smyth to commit what everyone knew were crimes. Brady's failure to act was not because Irish people didn't think child rape was an evil deed, he failed to act to protect the RCC church.


Secondly - once again we get the usual refer to sex with children so must mention homosexuals in the next sentence BS - 'oh noes, we are not equating paedophilia and homosexuality, we are just mentioning then together by coincidence to illustrate a point. :mad:

Pherekydes

electro222 wrote: »

Equally and worrying Society may look back in 40 yeras time and think how awful it was that adults who had sex with children were put in prison.
Look at Societys attitude to homosexuality today in comparison to 30, 40, or 50 years ago.

It's feeble-minded logic like this that discredits your arguments.

Turtwig

electro222 wrote: »

Ha ha
The labour party has the same credability as a choclate teapot and just as useful too

You've already been warned once about making posts like this. Consider this your final one.
This thread is about Brady and his Vigil.


In reply to your analogy.
Chocolate teapots are awesome but possibly still useless - not as useless as one would intuitively expect!

michael999999

electro222 wrote: »

It is quite likely that in 30 or 40 yera time people will look back and think how awful it was that we allowed people sit into tin boxes and move them around at high speeds (cars) causing hundreds of deathes every year,
But that is the norm for our society in the times we live in,
Equally and worrying Society may look back in 40 yeras time and think Howard awful it was that adults who had sex with children were put in prison.
Look at Societys attitude to homosexuality today in comparison to 30, 40, or 50 years ago.
The point I am making is that socitial norms are norms at that point in time.
Hindsight is a harsh master

For humanity's sake I hope your trolling!