Vigil for mothers and unborn babies in Knock with alleged PAEDO protector Sean Brady

electro222

The church has the numbers on this one, anyway why is this country so keen to bring in abortion.
One point constantly being made is the case of rape.
lets take that to its logical conclusion, man rapes woman, woman conceives, innocent child is condemned to death by abortion, logically rapist should also be sentenced to death, The PC brigade who scream for the abortion of the innocent child will scream for the rights of the rapist
Sick or what

electro222

Shouting that Cardinal Brady is a protector of child abusers is a bit like Enda singing that same old song in the Dail "Its all FF fault"
Thas working great for FF so Keep singing that one for the church man
It all helps

swampgas

electro222 wrote: »

The church has the numbers on this one, anyway why is this country so keen to bring in abortion.
One point constantly being made is the case of rape.
lets take that to its logical conclusion, man rapes woman, woman conceives, innocent child is condemned to death by abortion, logically rapist should also be sentenced to death, The PC brigade who scream for the abortion of the innocent child will scream for the rights of the rapist
Sick or what

Let's assume the raped woman has a termination pretty much as soon as she knows she's pregnant. At this point, it's not a child, it's not even close to being a baby. Maybe you should do some basic research into human biology?

MGMCH

Dades wrote: »

Careful now. A veiled insult is an insult nonetheless.

People here are talking about "respect". Well, respect must be earned and in the minds of many here the church have done nothing to earn that respect and in fact have done plenty to earn contempt.

In the same way they are entitled to organise vigils and give their opinions we are entitled to point out hypocrisy and give our own.

I give up. You, an 'administrator' are calling the comment made by 'Catallus' a veiled insult, yet you add one of your own calling the Church 'hypocritical'! Is that a compliment in your book? Feel like beating my head off a wall. This is too funny

electro222

Well The church got 6000 out today in Knock.
Next Labour party conference can be held in a phone box next Fine Gael conference can be held in a public toilet>

Dades

electro222 - I'm officially warning you to contribute something better than goading posts and straw men. Also, we have an abortion thread already, this one is about Brady and his vigil.

For everyone else, for this thread to remain open don't feed the trolls and keep the abortion talk for the megathread.

Pherekydes

The RCC would do well to take the advice of their own founder:

7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

MGMCH

Electro222, are you being naughty! Did you not realise that freedom of speech only applies if you agree with the view of the administrator who shall of course remain impartial

efb

MGMCH wrote: »

There is no need to be in doubt as to the figures that attended the vigil. The figure of 5000 is actually incorrect-final figures show that nearer to 10000 people attended.

Also, it is possible to voice an opinion while showing respect for others. Unless 'Culture of Deference' presumes him/herself to be above the law, the mantra 'innocent until proven guilty' still applies in this country.

The post by the aforementioned is both offensive and defamatory and based on bitter predjudice rather than fact, and I have requested that it be removed.

I worry about the state of our country when people can display such utter ignorance on a public forum or indeed that there are people out there who would consider posting such hatred.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, if you want yours to be taken seriously, you would be well advised to display a bit of manners and then you might come across as better informed.

Welcome to boards!

Pherekydes

MGMCH wrote: »

I give up. You, an 'administrator' are calling the comment made by 'Catallus' a veiled insult, yet you add one of your own calling the Church 'hypocritical'! Is that a compliment in your book? Feel like beating my head off a wall. This is too funny

Calling the church hypocritical is a simple statement of fact, not an insult.

recedite

catallus wrote: »

the issue of child-abuse and using it as a basis of castigating the behaviour of people in the past: it gives great succour to us insofar as that we feel morally superior to those who did not act to prevent such abuse. But this feeling must be seen to be false: the social culture at the time was one of turning a blind eye

The culture of deference is still alive and well, it seems :pac:
You expect us to show respect and deference for this man, but you don't expect that he should be made accountable for his inappropriate actions and inactions.

efb

Did Maz not show up? Maybe she thinks she should have had one???

MGMCH

Pherekydes wrote: »

Calling the church hypocritical is a simple statement of fact, not an insult.

So if I called you hypocritical you wouldn't be offended

Dades

MGMCH,

1. There's no freedom of speech here. This is a privately owned site on which you are posting as a guest.
2. The post above you has been edited as per my last instructions which suggests your them & us notions are misguided.
3. There are rules of debate for any successful, adult discussion and electro222 was not meeting them.
4. In most forums here questioning mod invention would earn you a card, but we're actually fairly lenient (the first time) so forget playing the victim it just makes you look a bit desperate.

catallus

Respect or deference have nothing to do with anything; the protesters are being tarred with the wrongdoing of a few people in a large church. There was nothing veiled about my comment on the OP. It is a stupid post made by a spiteful person. The protesters shouldn't be targeted because of what they believe and they certainly shouldn't be disregarded in such an idiotic and brainless manner.

Sierra 117

Disgusting. Brady is the last person who should be talking about what's best for children. He didn't give a damn about the kids his peers raped and abused so why would anyone give a f*** what he thinks. He's scum.

nowanathiest

Obliq wrote: »

That's bollix. We ARE the state. Whatcha going to do about it? Don't give up....cos you have friends...


Hope everyone else was singing along to that...

unfortunately, they probably will win because they are politically astute, well funded and well organised with regards to rally's, PR and marketing materials (posters, leaflets etc) the same as any other corporation, and individual grumblings on these boards do not have the same effect as their direct lobbying in the dail.

You - the grassroots may hold an opinion but unless you are vocal in society to counterbalance their opinions, it won't count for much in the final days of this struggle.......and make no mistake it is a struggle, not just for control of women's bodies but to determine who actually runs this country - the church or the state.

Play To Kill

catallus wrote: »

the protesters are being tarred with the wrongdoing of a few people in a large church.

The protesters allowed themselves to be led by one of those wrong doers, they tarred themselves.

Obliq

Dades wrote: »

For everyone else, for this thread to remain open don't feed the trolls and keep the abortion talk for the megathread.

Sorry, took so long to post my rant, I didn't see this!

MGMCH

Dades wrote: »

MGMCH,

1. There's no freedom of speech here. This is a privately owned site on which you are posting as a guest.
2. The post above you has been edited as per my last instructions which suggests your them & us notions are misguided.
3. There are rules of debate for any successful, adult discussion and electro222 was not meeting them.
4. In most forums here questioning mod invention would earn you a card, but we're actually fairly lenient (the first time) so forget playing the victim it just makes you look a bit desperate.

Dades, darling,

Please find below my responses to each of your four points-

1. So the site is a dictatorship. If you personally don't like what I say you will edit it?
2.Whatever keeps you smiling!
3.Neither were you
4. Do you mean I don't get a card? Don't be like that! I'm not playing the victim, I'm standing up for them!

Turtwig

MGMCH wrote: »

I give up. You, an 'administrator' are calling the comment made by 'Catallus' a veiled insult, yet you add one of your own calling the Church 'hypocritical'! Is that a compliment in your book? Feel like beating my head off a wall. This is too funny

Unfortunately though you may disagree the church is not present on boards. If a priest of the church was present and it was implied that he was stupid then it would be seen as unacceptable.

Earlier in this thread another comment was made that was right on the line. "Vile human being". It wasn't directed at anyone in particular so I let it go.

Implying that any posters here, no matter their viewpoint, is stupid is unacceptable. In essence, the rule is attack the poster's points never the poster.

I would also like to remind posters here that Mr Brady has not been convicted of anything. Allegations have been made that is all.

Also, I realise this is an emotive topic, but if you have an issue with moderation discuss it with PM.

Stick around you may grow to like this place - or hate it more. Won't know though if you try and there would have been free tea and cookies but somebody stole them.

Turtwig

catallus wrote: »

Respect or deference have nothing to do with anything; the protesters are being tarred with the wrongdoing of a few people in a large church. There was nothing veiled about my comment on the OP. It is a stupid post made by a spiteful person. The protesters shouldn't be targeted because of what they believe and they certainly shouldn't be disregarded in such an idiotic and brainless manner.

Folks please be Civil.

You are free to call the original post stupid. You ARE NOT free to say the person behind the original post is spiteful.

Dades

MGMCH wrote: »

1. So the site is a dictatorship. If you personally don't like what I say you will edit it?

Are you really that desperate to be oppressed? One post has been edited on this thread - from a pro-choice poster responding to an off topic post from the poster whom you are rushing to defend. Some other posts were deleted that took this debate off topic... any of yours? No. So go be oppressed somewhere else like a good girl.

Move on. Post ON topic. Do not quote me, and maybe, just maybe this thread will survive.

michael999999

Jernal wrote: »

Unfortunately though you may disagree the church is not present on boards. If a priest of the church was present and it was implied that he was stupid then it would be seen as unacceptable.

Earlier in this thread another comment was made that was right on the line. "Vile human being". It wasn't directed at anyone in particular so I let it go.

Implying that any posters here, no matter their viewpoint, is stupid is unacceptable. In essence, the rule is attack the poster's points never the poster.

I would also like to remind posters here that Mr Brady has not been convicted of anything. Allegations have been made that is all.

Also, I realise this is an emotive topic, but if you have an issue with moderation discuss it with PM.

Stick around you may grow to like this place - or hate it more. Won't know though if you try and there would have been free tea and cookies but somebody stole them.

That was me who said that. My idea of a vile human being is someone who would swere children who had been raped to silence. To protect an organisation that he was a member of.

I stand over my views. The dog collar holds no fear over me.

recedite

catallus wrote: »

the protesters are being tarred with the wrongdoing of a few people in a large church.

The protestors are being led by those people. Wasn't Brady "the chief celebrant" at the event? The culture of deference requires that the protestors (and your good self) forget all about how he swore the child rape victims to secrecy, thereby protecting Brendan Smyth from any further investigation, and then of course said nothing at all to the Gardai.

Sarky

catallus wrote: »

I can understand the attraction of using the current moral stance on the issue of child-abuse and using it as a basis of castigating the behaviour of people in the past: it gives great succour to us insofar as that we feel morally superior to those who did not act to prevent such abuse.

I've never sworn children who'd been abused to silence. In fact, any sexual abuse I've witnessed, I've DONE something about. I don't just feel morally superior to Sean Brady; I clearly AM morally superior.

Turtwig

Dades wrote: »

Are you really that desperate to be oppressed? One post has been edited on this thread - from a pro-choice poster responding to an off topic post from the poster whom you are rushing to defend. Some other posts were deleted that took this debate off topic... any of yours? No. So go be oppressed somewhere else like a good girl.

Move on. Post ON topic. Do not quote me, and maybe, just maybe this thread will survive.

I'd also like to add that the original post was in fact edited. I still reflected the posters opinion and tone I just took out definite defamatory remarks. Thus far any dissenting opinions have been left completely untouched and warned where appropriate for spamming or being uncivil - and this has been occurring on all sides.

MGMCH wrote: »

Dades,

You're right, I'm wrong.I hope I'm being a good enough girl now? I'm sorry for quoting you. Just to clarify, am I not allowed to quote an administrator? Apologies again

You can quote him as many times as you like (within reason of course). You can even send him a Christmas card. What you're not supposed to do is question his decisions in thread. There's a procedure to follow for that. It's not that your opinion isn't valued it's that it just further derails the discussion of the thread.

So, please, leave out the sarcasm and just contribute to the discussion like you did in your original post.

Thanks.

Obliq

nowanathiest wrote: »

unfortunately, they probably will win because they are politically astute, well funded and well organised with regards to rally's, PR and marketing materials (posters, leaflets etc) the same as any other corporation, and individual grumblings on these boards do not have the same effect as their direct lobbying in the dail.

No, no they won't win, because there is another generation of thinkers coming up, and they're soon going to be voting. It'll be a slow, but steady attrition of the impenetrable managment of the RCC/thought police, and it's on the roll now.

You - the grassroots may hold an opinion but unless you are vocal in society to counterbalance their opinions, it won't count for much in the final days of this struggle.......

Correct. Which is why I'm very vocal. I'm a fertile forty something with kids had in a Catholic hospital, having to send them to a primary school with Catholic ethos, and learn about sex education in a Catholic secondary school. Women are waking up to what is being said about them - the "slutshaming" that goes on (as if being slutty is a bad thing!) - and what's being said is nasty. Apparently we choose abortions to fit our wedding dresses. We use it as a form of contraception (as if we don't know what contraception is for) and we get into these situations by SLEEPING AROUND. Oh jaysus, the horror....

and make no mistake it is a struggle, not just for control of women's bodies but to determine who actually runs this country - the church or the state.

Everyone runs the country. They may have had religious parents who wanted them to be faithful to an ideal of morality that's actually unattainable, they may have had no religious teachings but had moral parents who taught right from wrong very differently to the Catholic church (Who's heirarchy can be seen to have the moral understanding of an infant who wants to control his mother).

Obliq

Jernal wrote: »

and there would have been free tea and cookies but somebody stole them.

WHAT? Robin always had buns and hugs and stuff when people hated each other's opinions and would have liked to throw buns.....

Bridge93

Obliq wrote: »

No, no they won't win, because there is another generation of thinkers coming up, and they're soon going to be voting. It'll be a slow, but steady attrition of the impenetrable managment of the RCC/thought police, and it's on the roll.

I certainly hope your view is right about the whole of the country because I left school recently. Of the 200 students in my year in a Catholic school, assuming all were to vote I'd be willing to put money on that 195 would be pro choice. That is only one school in south Dublin so hopefully it is the same across Ireland.