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running a boiler dry

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24

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    QBE wrote: »
    I think that would be better describe some appliances not just one type of boiler (appliances).

    No in these cases the deaths were caused purely by the gas installers not understanding the changes in technolagy and assuming that what they had learned from other gas appliances crossed over on to High Efficiency boilers, as a HE gas boiler can still work with the flue joints disconnected(unlike standard efficiency) a greater deal of respect would of prevented needless deaths.


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    #33
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    However the main point was oil burners would require more servicing than a gas boiler as oil is not as clean a fuel as gas and Ill stand by that.
    Can I just pick up on this point there are others that have concerned me. I'll start by saying that I've the greatest respect for your points, but this statement is unhelpfull and daming, as someone who is working in the industrial end of thing you of all people should know that servicing oil or gas boilers, no matter how clean or dirty you view the fuel being used for combustion makes no difference to the frequency of servicing this is set down by mi's.

    Also hoovering out the dirt or just flies in gas boilers this accounts for about 10% of the service.
    I've seen a gas boiler running at 2900 ppm Co coming from the flue, the fg' s were as clear a air.
    A oil boiler with 150 ppmCo would be reading 3-4 on a smoke card, but which is deadly and which is just "dirty"

    As rgi's we have the responsibility of ensuring the saftey of gas appliances operating in the public domain. I'm not going to get into any more as it has been very well posted in 'servicing sticky' and its plane to see what an annex c is all about.


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    #34
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    gary71 wrote: »
    No in these cases the deaths were caused purely by the gas installers not understanding the changes in technolagy and assuming that what they had learned from other gas appliances crossed over on to High Efficiency boilers, as a HE gas boiler can still work with the flue joints disconnected(unlike standard efficiency) a greater deal of respect would of prevented needless deaths.


    id agree 100% with you on that gary71. That's my point about apprenticeships and updating skills. its is a sore point with me when I see untrained time served men enter the industry to become tech .

    If your timed served and update skills.these risks are minimum.

    As for He boilers are not all they are made out to be? especially persific systems. This has been proved in the uk.


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    #35
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    Can I just pick up on this point there are others that have concerned me. I'll start by saying that I've the greatest respect for your points, but this statement is unhelpfull and daming, as someone who is working in the industrial end of thing you of all people should know that servicing oil or gas boilers, no matter how clean or dirty you view the fuel being used for combustion makes no difference to the frequency of servicing this is set down by mi's.

    Also hoovering out the dirt or just flies in gas boilers this accounts for about 10% of the service.
    I've seen a gas boiler running at 2900 ppm Co coming from the flue, the fg' s were as clear a air.
    A oil boiler with 150 ppmCo would be reading 3-4 on a smoke card, but which is deadly and which is just "dirty"

    As rgi's we have the responsibility of ensuring the saftey of gas appliances operating in the public domain. I'm not going to get into any more as it has been very well posted in 'servicing sticky' and its plane to see what an annex c is all about.

    you probably understand where Im coming from. In relation to my points. However that's 1 experienced man to another.

    I think the point I really was getting at is. For a better efficient system . oil burners requires more tender loving care than gas. However safty should be adhered to at all times.


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    #36
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    As rgi's we have the responsibility of ensuring the saftey of gas appliances operating in the public domain. .

    and should also be trained to be honest . I called to see a protential client today.
    The rgi (I assume) as he quoted for installing a new condensing boiler, told the lady of the house to renew the heating system pipework and update the boiler. He was employed to clean the heating system, but found a leak.

    He wants to renew the copper pipes with plastic (gob****e) and I had a look and the boilers fine. A few adjustments needed. Can I report him to rgi, Ill sort all this ladies problems out for less than 500/600e.

    be safe be wise....should be the motto


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    #37
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    Quote:


    As for He boilers are not all they are made out to be? especially persific systems. This has been proved in the uk.
    what?

    Where are you getting these statements from and basing it on....are you trying to bring the industary down by posting your rgii view point which is obviously bull, do you need me to explane how a he boiler operates, but im sure you will probley, but you'll be saying its only 15% increase in effency why bother sure they proved it doesn't save you money its all a big conspiracy created by the boiler manufacturers, same in the motor industry.


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    #38
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    what?

    Where are you getting these statements from and basing it on....are you trying to bring the industary down by posting your rgii view point which is obviously bull, do you need me to explane how a he boiler operates, but im sure you will probley, but you'll be saying its only 15% increase in effency why bother sure they proved it doesn't save you money its all a big conspiracy created by the boiler manufacturers, same in the motor industry.


    the English government passed procedure before the time agreed for condensing boilers to be compulsive. You save fcuk all on oil. (it could be a dearer procedure) it depends on use , the price of boiler and the savings. Tempeture is lower . so incorrect sized rads need more heat. lower tempetures froze condensing traps. do you want me to really fcukin do a hole list and explain the basics of heating?


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    #39
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    what?

    1. are you trying to bring the industary down by posting your rgii view point

    2. which is obviously bull, do you need me to explane how a he boiler operates.

    1. I am my own man.

    2. Ill accept an opology


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    #40
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    Yea sure go on and explane the basics of heating and why the public shouldent waste there cash installing a he versus standard and save €250 and break the current regs.


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    #41
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    Yea sure go on and explane the basics of heating and why the public shouldent waste there cash installing a he versus standard and save €250 and break the current regs.

    before I go any further. I want you to confirm the following is incorrect or correct.
    I posted and asked
    it depends on use , the price of boiler and the savings. Tempeture is lower . so incorrect sized rads need more heat. lower tempetures froze condensing traps.
    will you answer please?

    I am highlighting a rectro fit with these boilers? you do know how to size rads and the basics of heating . don't you? Your an rgi contractor.


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    #42
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭jimf


    qbe so would i right in thinking if a customer contacts you to fit a new he oil boiler you will be advising them to stick with their old pile of crap std eff as they will be saving zilch i dont think so ?????


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    #43
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    jimf wrote: »
    qbe so would i right in thinking if a customer contacts you to fit a new he oil boiler you will be advising them to stick with their old pile of crap std eff as they will be saving zilch i dont think so ?????


    no. ill do what is morally right and should be known by all. ill advice on Comfort , economy and safety.

    After evaluating the cost of a new system. sizing the system ect and then compare the cost of a rectro fit against savings. then Ill give the client the option.

    if they wish to keep their pile of crap as you call it. that's fine by me. but when I leave it will be working aswell as some new boilers are fitted. got me?


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    #44
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    I'm not even going there, their are many posts on this subject and disuussed in depth many times, look them up if you need to.
    what im saying is as a gas-oil installer we don't get to be our own man we are governed by codes of practice, Irish building regulations and British standards some cases. So saying a boiler doesn't need servicing due to burning clean flue or not installing he boilers into a building because rad output isent suitable for creating the require return temp for a he boiler to condence mode, well come on man we work in simmular industries but that opion just doesn't cut it for me.


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    #45
    jimf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭jimf


    but when I leave it will be working aswell as some new boilers are fitted. got me?


    you have arrived just in time to save the world from all the cowboy installers and yes i think ive got you


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    #46
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    I know how to size rads...even been known to fit them.

    Have rgi no...


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    #47
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    I'm not even going there, their are many posts on this subject and disuussed in depth many times, look them up if you need to.
    what im saying is as a gas-oil installer we don't get to be our own man we are governed by codes of practice, Irish building regulations and British standards some cases. So saying a boiler doesn't need servicing due to burning clean flue or not installing he boilers into a building because rad output isent suitable for creating the require return temp for a he boiler to condence mode, well come on man we work in simmular industries but that opion just doesn't cut it for me.

    your fcukin beaten. that's the answer. I don't need to look anything up. my knowledge is in my head.

    I am my own man. I produce figures and stats. regs cant beat that. I can explain savings on old boilers. cost of new ones. your total savings. isn't it all about a cost saving factor? or am I wrong. I don't think so.

    what is the return flow rate on a condensing boiler approx.? the rads that where heating fine with old boiler. are not heating as well now due to rectrofit. tempeture needs to be increased to allow the rads to heat the same as the old system. Do you allow for all these factors.


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    #48
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    I know how to size rads...even been known to fit them.

    Have rgi no...

    That's one step. very good. now another.

    so a house built in (lets say) 1970 . is the heat load calculation. the same as 2010. or whats the difference? do you work out heat loss at m/sq. and define in watts? are you really giving the client the full details?

    or just saying . what you hear.

    I know a brickie with an rgi no. your names not ben is it.


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    #49
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    Your totally missing the point aagain, don't make me laugh the return temp on what? with the rubbish you wrote on gas boilers tonight I don't need to justify stats.


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    #50
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    Your totally missing the point aagain, don't make me laugh the return temp on what? with the rubbish you wrote on gas boilers tonight I don't need to justify stats.

    Whats the differnce between the flow rate and return rate on a condensing boiler ? you need to know the answer to that first, before I can proceed.

    ok. ill make it simple as I make it for my clients. bearing in mind your an rgi installer with all this relevant knowledge.

    is it about cost or a new system? if its about cost. ill show you the savings involved. sometimes the cost of installation outbeats the service. you got me?


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    #51
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    Oh and would we be taking into consideration the air tightness of the 1970 house or the ach of the 2010 with a value of less than 50q a wall make of .15w/m*k. with a sw orentation, don't think for one second your little meres calculator with have the answer for the heat input requirements for the modern day energy efficent house..


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    #52
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    Oh and would we be taking into consideration the air tightness of the 1970 house or the ach of the 2010 with a value of less than 50q a wall make of .15w/m*k. with a sw orentation, don't think for one second your little meres calculator with have the answer for the heat input requirements for the modern day energy efficent house..

    well a bunglow be double heat loss. but all these factors need to be allowed for.
    you have not answered any of my questions?

    its mere basics of economy and comfort.


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    #53
    pa990
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    I think my question relating to my KERO BOILER was answered on page one.

    Thanks to all for an informative read about the do's and donts for a gas boiler that I have never had.


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    #54
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    Yea well if ya ever get one make sure its he and get it service annually or more frequently as per mi's.


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    #55
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    pa990 wrote: »
    I think my question relating to my KERO BOILER was answered on page one.

    Thanks to all for an informative read about the do's and donts for a gas boiler that I have never had.

    and a little adjustment to your boiler could save as little as 3e for every 100e spent on oil to possibly 10/15e on every 100e spent on oil. that's what experience can get you. but the loss factor is obtained every day of the week. due to a lack of knowkedge.


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    #56
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    Yea well if ya ever get one make sure its he and get it service annually or more frequently as per mi's.


    thanks. you answered all my questions. :D you done rgi proud. :rolleyes:

    if you need advice. you know who to ask now, im all ears.


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    #57
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    Your just after doing the oil boiler course am I right or wrong qbe


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    #58
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    esox28 wrote: »
    Your just after doing the oil boiler course am I right or wrong qbe

    I done a course called an apprenticeship. I spent 2 years stripping boilers and putting them back together in st ~~~~ hospital. I listened to the older lads and learned fast. I done every course offered to me. its called knowledge.

    I worked until now for others. because I didn't think I knew enough. when the company you worked for since an apprentice. starts asking you how to solve things.

    you understand that its time to be self employed. got me?


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    #59
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    apologies. I should have said.
    when the company you worked for IS THE LEADER IN THE INDUSTRY . starts asking you how to solve things.

    whos running the company?


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    #60
    QBE
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 225 ✭✭QBE


    @ esok28.

    when you worked in the most dangerous industrial invoirnment in Ireland. an industrial gas company. you learn whats safty is about, I have more saty certs than plumbing ones. I know whats safe and whats not.


    that's why I laugh sometimes about . the fear factor


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    #61
    esox28
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭esox28


    You served your time doing maintance in a hoispital oh i c now. Do you think you know enough to be give advice on domestic installationa


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