running a boiler dry

pa990

What are the risks or dangers of running out of home heating oil (kero). Besides having to bleed it.

Will it damage the pump ?

QBE

it can damage the oil pump and burner by drawing dirt into filters and nozzle ect. however if the fuel lines and tank are clean (don't worry) and you should have filters on the line.(again don't worry).
if you have no oil . the actuator will not open on the oil burner and boiler/ burner will cut out. The red light will come on at the reset button . You can try to restart .but it will cut out again.
so I wouldn't worry to much. get a fill off oil and bleed at the correct point. If the oil boiler/burner don't come on after you have bleed the oil line (correctly). Possibilty dirt got drawn into the filters ect ,
An oil burner should be serviced once a year. (IMO gas boilers don't. Ill get eat by the rgii installers over that . But that's my opinion). Gas is a very clean fuel compared to oil and you can obtain a better efficiency with oil but needs proper combustion and nozzle . So have a service especially on the burner , every year.

QBE

sorry just to clarify. Gas is cheaper than oil. What I mean is you obtain a higher rate of effiency with an oil burner than with a gas boiler. By getting the correct combustion.

Also invest in a CO detector for gas boilers and make sure you check they are working regulary. If you don't get the yearly service. I service my gas boiler myself. However if I had oil. I would service my burner every year and just check that the baffels and chambers of the boiler and flue are not to dirty and clean if required.
My Mother has the same oil boiler 25 years. The same oil Burner the last 12. I have Serviced her burner every year since it went in, many parts added like nozzle , solanide ect. It is Not the most efficient but works like a dream. My gas boiler is in 12 years old. I only serviced it twice. Only ever had to replace the fan. Works perfect. I just checked its combustion last week.
So that tells a story in itself. Id be more inclined to worry about the condition of the water supply in the heating system with my own gas heating. In any heating system that's the main reasons for problems outside (electric)mechanically operated valves and actuators (stats, motorised valves) ect failing.

Dtp79

QBE wrote: »

sorry just to clarify. Gas is cheaper than oil. What I mean is you obtain a higher rate of effiency with an oil burner than with a gas boiler. By getting the correct combustion.

Also invest in a CO detector for gas boilers and make sure you check they are working regulary. If you don't get the yearly service. I service my gas boiler myself. However if I had oil. I would service my burner every year and just check that the baffels and chambers of the boiler and flue are not to dirty and clean if required.
My Mother has the same oil boiler 25 years. The same oil Burner the last 12. I have Serviced her burner every year since it went in, many parts added like nozzle , solanide ect. It is Not the most efficient but works like a dream. My gas boiler is in 12 years old. I only serviced it twice. Only ever had to replace the fan. Works perfect. I just checked its combustion last week.
So that tells a story in itself. Id be more inclined to worry about the condition of the water supply in the heating system with my own gas heating. In any heating system that's the main reasons for problems outside (electric)mechanically operated valves and actuators (stats, motorised valves) ect failing.

Are you for real QBE?
Anyone out there now reading your post and are due a service will probably not bother with a service now and put themselves in danger.
Only a few weeks ago I serviced a boiler that was perfect last year, but over the year pinholes appeared in the flue and air intake was mixing with the fumes. Well over 1,000 ppm CO was being pumped out. What if the customer had your attitude to yearly servicing??

Dtp79

And not to mention the amount of gas leaks I've come across when soundness testing

QBE

Highlight the dangers that will happen Bearing in mind a CO detector is fitted?
Soundness test ill agree with. Saftey devices for that are?

I did say it was IMO. But old boilers I would advice every year. Every 2 years after would be fine for newer boilers. IMO

Also depends on how many hours it has been used.

Dtp79

QBE wrote: »

Highlight the dangers that will happen Bearing in mind a CO detector is fitted?
Soundness test ill agree with. Saftey devices for that are?

I did say it was IMO. But old boilers I would advice every year. Every 2 years after would be fine for newer boilers. IMO

You can't use a CO detector to prove the safety of a boiler. Its a last resort measure only.
Your opinion is probably worth something to people on here and because of you they now will probably say " ah shur he's a gas man. If he says it's ok every few years then grand ". Meanwhile there could be a leak on the gas line, leak in the flue or god knows what

QBE

Dtp79 wrote: »

You can't use a CO detector to prove the safety of a boiler. Its a last resort measure only.
Your opinion is probably worth something to people on here and because of you they now will probably say " ah shur he's a gas man. If he says it's ok every few years then grand ". Meanwhile there could be a leak on the gas line, leak in the flue or god knows what

ok get your boiler serviced every year. it is better to be safe than sorry.

I get my car serviced every 10k miles. So does the wife. Some times I get a service twice a year. its 18 mths since the mrs got hers serviced.

QBE

I think the dangers of gas fires should be highlighted more. Especially gas fires. How many get them inspected or serviced?
My 2 biggest fears with gas or oil would be
1.incorrect atomizing from an oil burner
2. gas fires
Id have the gas fire serviced and assessed before the boiler

Dtp79

QBE wrote: »

I think the dangers of gas fires and hobs ect should be highlighted more. Especially gas fires. How many get them inspected or serviced?
My 2 biggest fears with gas or oil would be

1.incorrect atomizing from an oil burner
2. gas fires

Yes I agree. I always make my customers aware of the dangers of gas fires if they have one fitted. I always inspect the entire system including hob and fire when I do a boiler service.

QBE

Dtp79 wrote: »

Yes I agree. I always make my customers aware of the dangers of gas fires if they have one fitted. I always inspect the entire system including hob and fire when I do a boiler service.

boilers have many safty functions.

Blocked flue boiler cuts out.
Blocked flue fire still works.

gas leak. you smell. CO you don't.

Dtp79

QBE wrote: »

boilers have many safty functions.

Blocked flue boiler cuts out.
Blocked flue fire still works.

gas leak. you smell. CO you don't.

Couldn't agree more

QBE

Dtp79 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more

thanks.

But I should have mentioned proper combustion is the main part of an efficient and safe appliance.

And in any service. That's the main question should be asked by the customer.

Billy Bunting

IMHO there is a huge safety factor in an annual service and any right minded RGI shouldnt be giving advice that contradicts MI, safety items are not a alternative to an annual service.

QBE

Billy Bunting wrote: »

IMHO there is a huge safety factor in an annual service and any right minded RGI shouldnt be giving advice that contradicts MI, safety items are not a alternative to an annual service.

Well in that case what I should say is . I have many years experience of stripping large scale boilers and burners . I would know what would require a service and what wouldn't. So If you have no knowledge or experience. Its better to get your boiler serviced every year.

However My biggest fears are the same atomizing of oil and gas fires.

Billy Bunting

QBE wrote: »

Well in that case what I should say is . I have many years experience of stripping large scale boilers and burners . I would know what would require a service and what wouldn't. So If you have no knowledge or experience. Its better to get your boiler serviced every year.

And i would imagine most RGI's here with equal experience would advice that its better to get your boiler serviced annually and never rely on a CO alarm as your first line of defence.

QBE

Billy Bunting wrote: »

And i would imagine most RGI's here with equal experience would advice that its better to get your boiler serviced annually and never rely on a CO alarm as your first line of defence.

I don't want to go down that road. It will only end up messy.

I have stripped and put back together the biggest of industrial boilers and burners. As well aswell as serviced and commissioned.

However the main point was oil burners would require more servicing than a gas boiler as oil is not as clean a fuel as gas and Ill stand by that.

and what ever you think of CO detectors. I think they should be compulsory part of the appliance by law.

pa990

QBE wrote: »

it can damage the oil pump and burner by drawing dirt into filters and nozzle ect. however if the fuel lines and tank are clean (don't worry) and you should have filters on the line.(again don't worry).
if you have no oil . the actuator will not open on the oil burner and boiler/ burner will cut out. The red light will come on at the reset button . You can try to restart .but it will cut out again.
so I wouldn't worry to much. get a fill off oil and bleed at the correct point. If the oil boiler/burner don't come on after you have bleed the oil line (correctly). Possibilty dirt got drawn into the filters ect ,
An oil burner should be serviced once a year. (IMO gas boilers don't. Ill get eat by the rgii installers over that . But that's my opinion). Gas is a very clean fuel compared to oil and you can obtain a better efficiency with oil but needs proper combustion and nozzle . So have a service especially on the burner , every year.

Thanks
i still have some oil left in the tank, but it will prob run dry over the coming month (not getting a lot of use lately ) and will fill up in july when hopefully oil prices will be at a yearly low

Dtp79

QBE wrote: »

boilers have many safty functions.

Blocked flue boiler cuts out.
Blocked flue fire still works.

gas leak. you smell. CO you don't.

Blocked flue on a HE boiler ? No fan proving switch on those. Nor oil boilers!

QBE

Dtp79 wrote: »

Blocked flue on a HE boiler ? No fan proving switch on those. Nor oil boilers!

blocked flue was an example I used . never mentioned names of boilers oil or gas. Below was my quote.

boilers have many safty functions.

Blocked flue boiler cuts out.
Blocked flue fire still works.

gas leak. you smell. CO you don't.

Now where do I mention all boilers, oil or gas?

Flame Roll Out ?

QBE

Dtp79 wrote: »

Blocked flue on a HE boiler ? No fan proving switch on those. Nor oil boilers!

do you know what a roll out switch is? or do you want me to tell you?:rolleyes:

Dtp79

QBE wrote: »

do you know what a roll out switch is? or do you want me to tell you?:rolleyes:

I know what a roll out switch is but that dosent stop CO being produced. I think you'd be better off in the Rgi tech forum. You are RGI aren't you??

QBE

QBE wrote: »

do you know what a roll out switch is? or do you want me to tell you?:rolleyes:

I don't know what a roll out switch is but what I do know is if tradesmen stick to what they know and stay away from what they don't then the world is a safer place.

Your thoughts on gas boilers are wrong. Misunderstandings/complacancy about the safety of domestic HE boilers has led to numerous deaths and nearly my own, its because of this gas boilers should be checked every year and engineers should carry personal alarms(if they want to pontificate on boards)

.jacksparrow.

QBE wrote: »

I don't want to go down that road. It will only end up messy.

I have stripped and put back together the biggest of industrial boilers and burners. As well aswell as serviced and commissioned.

However the main point was oil burners would require more servicing than a gas boiler as oil is not as clean a fuel as gas and Ill stand by that.

and what ever you think of CO detectors. I think they should be compulsory part of the appliance by law.

You must do a lot of work with steam boilers aswell.

QBE

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

You must do a lot of work with steam boilers aswell.

I did over the years. Actually adjusted boilers to create steam in other to clean pipework lines. great job. ever try it?

QBE

Dtp79 wrote: »

I know what a roll out switch is but that dosent stop CO being produced. I think you'd be better off in the Rgi tech forum. You are RGI aren't you??

RGI registration all sorted .

That's good. Lots of more safty devises in modern boilers. But that's best kept a secret or for the rgi forum.

well a bit of tech then outside rgi forum.Before the gas analyser. What was used. a smoke pump & a thermostat . Id still beable to service a boiler safely. With a gauge and the above, But the regs are printouts now.

sullzz

QBE wrote: »

do you know what a roll out switch is? or do you want me to tell you?:rolleyes:

Please name 1 domestic gas boiler which has a roll out switch .
Im not talking about a fsd or an ionisation probe , an actual roll out switch.

QBE

sullzz wrote: »

Please name 1 domestic gas boiler which has a roll out switch .
Im not talking about a fsd or an ionisation probe , an actual roll out switch.

none I know of. I just wanted to see if he knew what was what. Someone did when they mentioned steam.

sullzz

QBE wrote: »

none I know of. I just wanted to see if he knew what was what. Someone did when they mentioned steam.

They are not only used on steam boilers , they are used on gas boilers / water heaters too

QBE

gary71 wrote: »

Misunderstandings/complacancy about the safety has led to numerous deaths

I think that would be better describe some appliances not just one type of boiler (appliances).

QBE

@ sullz.
I know . You asked what domestic boilers are they fitted to. I said I dont know of any. That's why the original question asked the lad . did he know what it was. Because they are fitted to boilers and are a great safty function.


combustion and tempeture, you understand me? CO


you know about steam ststems and how well they work. you got the basics