Is rape always about power?

Spunge

if rape is always about power.
sex is always about love.

GalwayGuy2

There are many reasons why a man might rape, but power is an ever present ingredient, a constant in the face of other fluctuating factors.

Anyway, Three Seasons your hardly dominating someone by stealing their wallet? There's lots of empirical evidence to show that rape is about power,but the rapist does get sexual satisfaction from the power.

It's just a bit of a strange thread tbh :S

GalwayGuy2

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Quite right, but for the purposes of this discussion the theoretical rapist is male. No slight or oversight intended.

ToddyDoody

It can be about misguided love? That's what my solicitor argued.

Three Seasons

Candie wrote: »

List of Rape Myths, Sociology of Rape, Uni of Minnesota.

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/myths.html

Ok I see we're making progress, you now don't believe all rapists are motivated by power.

On the link provided I see many claims, I don't see any solid evidence. I just see a list of explanations, what are they backed up by. What they say may be true or it could be false.

For a start we are led to believe most rapists aren't even convicted so how do we know what all those rapists are motivated by.

It could be power, sexual gratification or numerous other explanations no one has proposed.

Three Seasons

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Anyway, Three Seasons your hardly dominating someone by stealing their wallet? There's lots of empirical evidence to show that rape is about power,but the rapist does get sexual satisfaction from the power.

It's just a bit of a strange thread tbh :S

If you beat them up and take their wallet I would call that domination.

Again rapists don't have one hive mind, they are individuals with their own unique personalities and motivations.

Dave!

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Which then becomes less about sex and more about forcing her to have sex. So it becomes about power.

I'm still not with you - you're just asserting that it is less about sex Why is it not valid to say it's actually just about sex (sex is the goal), her resistance is an obstacle in the way of reaching the goal, and force/power is the means by which the obstacle is overcome and the goal is reached?

Noone has said that power isn't a "factor", of course it is. But the question is, is it the motivation? You seem to be moving the goalposts a bit in your later posts, suggesting that because force is involved that it is therefore "about" force.

That's like saying when a burglar smashes your window to break into your house, that his crime becomes "about smashing windows". When in reality it's just something he felt he had to do in order to rob your shít!

Three Seasons

Three Seasons wrote: »

Ok I see we're making progress, you now don't believe all rapists are motivated by power.

Lets get this very clear before you put more words in my mouth.

In my first post, this is what I wrote:

Candie wrote: »

Rape is a crime of violence using sex as the weapon.
I'm sure there are as many reasons for raping as there are rapists, but ultimately it's about power in one form or another, in my opinion.

I have never said it was the only motivation. I have only asserted that power is a constant factor, in one form or another, and that it seems to be a part of the mix that motivates a rapist.

Tombi!

Dave! wrote: »

I'm still not with you - you're just asserting that it is less about sex Why is it not valid to say it's actually just about sex (sex is the goal), her resistance is an obstacle in the way of reaching the goal, and force/power is the means by which the obstacle is overcome and the goal is reached?

Noone has said that power isn't a "factor", of course it is. But the question is, is it the motivation? You seem to be moving the goalposts a bit in your later posts, suggesting that because force is involved that it is therefore "about" force.

That's like saying when a burglar smashes your window to break into your house, that his crime becomes "about smashing windows". When in reality it's just something he felt he had to do in order to rob your shít!

Didn't mean to move the goal posts or anything. I'm just trying to make it clear that the difference between the rapist who won't take no for an answer and the rapist who sets out to rape someone is very little.

You could argue that the rapist that expects sex and then rapes when he doesn't get it, then he can be about raping for sex. But for the most part, rape is about power in terms of, exerting your own power over someone else

ahnowbrowncow

Candie wrote: »

Do they use physical power to take that sex by force? Or psychological power in the form of threat? Overcome their victim sexually, exerting sexual power over their victim?

Power in it's physical, sexual or psychological form is still power.

What about rape where the victim consented but was too drunk to legally consent? I doubt that's about power.

Tombi!

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

What about rape where the victim consented but was too drunk to legally consent? I doubt that's about power.

That's a bit of a grey area but technically speaking, *most* people have the common sense to tell the difference between "drunk and wanting it" and "barely speaking and going along with it".

Dave!

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Didn't mean to move the goal posts or anything. I'm just trying to make it clear that the difference between the rapist who won't take no for an answer and the rapist who sets out to rape someone is very little.

You could argue that the rapist that expects sex and then rapes when he doesn't get it, then he can be about raping for sex. But for the most part, rape is about power in terms of, exerting your own power over someone else

Okay. But there are so many difference circumstances that a rape can occur (date rape, rape in response to denial of sex, premeditated/planned rape, rape of a minor/incest, etc.), and on the face of it I don't see how their motivations can all be so succinctly summarised as "power"; they're too vastly different.

Tombi!

Dave! wrote: »

Okay. But there are so many difference circumstances that a rape can occur (date rape, rape in response to denial of sex, premeditated/planned rape, rape of a minor/incest, etc.), and on the face of it I don't see how their motivations can all be so succinctly summarised as "power"; they're too vastly different.

Well, the common factor in all of them is some form of power.
Be it planned rape, date rape, child rape/incest, refused sex, etc. It's always going to come down to someone using their power to force someone else to do what they like and usually, it's based on the fact that they can use the power is why they do it.

Dave!

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Well, the common factor in all of them is some form of power.
Be it planned rape, date rape, child rape/incest, refused sex, etc. It's always going to come down to someone using their power to force someone else to do what they like and usually, it's based on the fact that they can use the power is why they do it.

There's another common factor

If it's about power, then why is the end result something sexual? Why don't the rapists just control the victim, tie them up or something, maybe just give them a beating? Lock them in a basement? Humiliate them in some other (non-sexual) way?

There are lots of things they could do to demonstrate their dominance. But they choose sex.

Three Seasons

Candie wrote: »

Lets get this very clear before you put more words in my mouth.

In my first post, this is what I wrote:



I have never said it was the only motivation. I have only asserted that power is a constant factor, in one form or another, and that it seems to be a part of the mix that motivates a rapist.

If by "about power" you mean power factored into the process at some point I fail to see why power needs to be mentioned at all.

Like a previous poster mentioned, would you say house robberies are "about smashing windows and breaking doors" and emphasise this point. The smashing of windows wasn't the goal, it was a necessary part of the process to achieve the goal.

Three Seasons

Three Seasons wrote: »

If by "about power" you mean power factored into the process at some point I fail to see why power needs to be mentioned at all.

Like a previous poster mentioned, would you say house robberies are "about smashing windows and breaking doors" and emphasise this point. The smashing of windows wasn't the goal, it was a necessary part of the process to achieve the goal.

By that logic, are all rapes ONLY about sex? Since robbing a house is to gain material goods, is rape only to gain sex?

Three Seasons

Candie wrote: »

By that logic, are all rapes ONLY about sex? Since robbing a house is to gain material goods, is rape only to gain sex?

It depends on the rapists personal motivations, it could be to simply to have sex, it could be to humiliate the victim, it could be to satisfy some strange form of OCD, who knows.... There certainly isn't just one possible motivation.

Three Seasons

Three Seasons wrote: »

It depends on the rapists personal motivations, it could be to simply to have sex, it could be to humiliate the victim, it could be to satisfy some strange form of OCD, who knows.... There certainly isn't just one possible motivation.

Nobody said there was.

Pug160

I'd say there's a few reasons - certainly more than one or two. I think outright misogyny is probably more of a credible theory in cases where the rapist is indiscriminately targeting all sorts of women and doesn't seem to care about the attractiveness of them. I think in cases where it's attractive women only there is arguably a combination of factors - including power but perhaps an attempt to take what the attacker cannot otherwise acquire. In some cases it is probably just a fantasy or fetish.

Three Seasons

Candie wrote: »

Nobody said there was.

Can you clarify what you mean when you say " rape is intimately about power".

I interpret that to mean a rapists ultimate motivation is power. I disagree, I think there's probably numerous ultimate motivations.

I find it strange that if someone who thinks power is just one factor amongst many, they continually emphasise that factor. Body contact is ultimately a factor in every rape, but you don't hear people saying "rape is ultimately about body contact".

eviltwin

Part of my job is working with rape victims. They would be women who have been raped by their partners. In their cases all the women are afraid of the men and will have sex with him whenever he wants just to avoid a beating so he has no reason to rape however rape is common. Rapes seem to happen when she has done something he doesn't like, something that takes away a bit of his control. Rape seems to be his way of taking back that control. He could just hit her but hitting someone doesn't go to the very core of their being in the same way a rape does I don't think. Its very personal, very invasive. I don't know the motives of the random rapist and wouldn't pretend to know enough to hazard a guess but in the case of relationship rape control is the major factor involved.

Faith

Psychologists and similar have poured decades into studying the motivations for rape. You can debate it or not believe it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the main motivation for rape is power of some form. Research has shown that there's 4 broad categories of rapist: Power-assurance rapist, which is the most common type; Power-assertive rapist; Anger-excitement rapist; Anger-retaliatory rapist. You can read more about these four types here. If you read through that, you'll see that sexual pleasure is often a goal for the rapist, but it's not their motivation and it's not why they rape.

Pug160

Faith wrote: »

Psychologists and similar have poured decades into studying the motivations for rape. You can debate it or not believe it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the main motivation for rape is power of some form. Research has shown that there's 4 broad categories of rapist: Power-assurance rapist, which is the most common type; Power-assertive rapist; Anger-excitement rapist; Anger-retaliatory rapist. You can read more about these four types here. If you read through that, you'll see that sexual pleasure is often a goal for the rapist, but it's not their motivation and it's not why they rape.

Well of course it's power of some form - how could it not be? But there's a big difference between saying it is only about power and saying that power is the trunk and there's many branches attached to that trunk. Psychology is interesting but there are times when common sense tells you certain things.

YFlyer

dd972 wrote: »

I can never get my mind round the notion that only the victims of male rape in U.S Prisons are 'Gay' and the perpetrators aren't, (even with the stigma of being the bitch ) surely the perpetrators have to be that way inclined to be able to do that.

The perpetrator here says his not gay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q27xtHbgXcU

Faith

Pug160 wrote: »

Well of course it's power of some form - how could it not be? But there's a big difference between saying it is only about power and saying that power is the trunk and there's many branches attached to that trunk. Psychology is interesting but there are times when common sense tells you certain things.

Who said it's only about power? The question was "Is rape always about power?" and the answer is yes. Nobody is claiming to have a formula to work out to what degree in each individual case.

Dave!

Faith wrote: »

Who said it's only about power? The question was "Is rape always about power?" and the answer is yes. Nobody is claiming to have a formula to work out to what degree in each individual case.

So could it be, say, 60% about sex, 40% about power in some situations? Or even 80/20?

Pug160

Faith wrote: »

Who said it's only about power? The question was "Is rape always about power?" and the answer is yes. Nobody is claiming to have a formula to work out to what degree in each individual case.

It's an extremely ambiguous term though, and doesn't do justice to how complex these things are.

Faith

Dave! wrote: »

So could it be, say, 60% about sex, 40% about power in some situations? Or even 80/20?

Like I said, nobody has a specific formula.

I find it odd that you're so attached to the idea that rape is about sex. Do you prefer to believe that men are so desperate for sex that they'll forcibly rape women just to get a ride? That they're so weak and lacking in self-control that rape is a viable option?

If you read the link I posted, you'll see that rapists often have regular, consensual sexual partners. So, in those cases, it's unlikely to be about an unstoppable desire for sex.

clairefontaine

I think the majority of the time it is about entitlement. Then there are other times where it is about mixed messages and ignorance around consent, particularly when under the influence.

Pug160

Faith wrote: »

Like I said, nobody has a specific formula.

I find it odd that you're so attached to the idea that rape is about sex. Do you prefer to believe that men are so desperate for sex that they'll forcibly rape women just to get a ride? That they're so weak and lacking in self-control that rape is a viable option?

If you read the link I posted, you'll see that rapists often have regular, consensual sexual partners. So, in those cases, it's unlikely to be about an unstoppable desire for sex.

I think (and this is just my opinion) that in some cases a man who has an obsession with pretty girls might commit rape because his frustration at not being able to attract this type of woman boils over into rage and he takes back a perceived lack of power by gaining it by force. I don't know if this constitutes a small percentage of rapists but it does seem plausible to me.