Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

I was going to ask that, did you get a crop off first?

After a lot of huffing and puffing, when figures were put up the main players in the discussion disappeared.

On the rate for borrowed, are you talking the margin you pay or total cost of funds?

Some of the rates quoted earlier were very high IMO. I find the rate the easiest thing to negotiate when dealing with the bank. Guy are trying to repay too quickly I feel so not a real comparison. I'd be interested on your take

Total cost.

To me, people don't borrow enough, for long enough.
Five years area aid will buy land here for me, but I can borrow for less than 2% fixed, so I take a ten year loan. That way I know exactly where I'm standing regards payments and I'm ready for catastrophes/crises. Also I insist on the inclusion of a two year payment vacation on all long term loans.
Money is a commodity. I can't understand (especially in times of historic low interest rates) people killing themselves to pay down loans. Surely they could make a better return on capital than saving on a sub 2% interest rate?

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was at a walk last summer in a farm going from winter milk to all spring. Good operator etc etc.
any way his sinopsis was that most in ireland only sow it for a status symbols and it's always sown beside the road.
Beet is a much more consistent crop and great feeding.

A man speaking at moorepark on Wednesday who started in 2011 said he started grazing it for first time last autumn.
fats of 6 and proteins of 5.
that's when bills get paid was his comment.
This man has no sheds 130 cows out wintered on kale and couldn't get a loan from banks when starting out because he had no 'experience'. Started on 20ha and has grown to 65ha today.
These ladd are going to knock the socks off every existing farmer in yrs to come

One final point of his.
'All the machinery i need is 20 Gallagher geared reels about 5000 pig tails and a plate meter and i can do anything'

To play devils advocate he may also be put out of business by co co or dept inspections ..unreal the difference in inspectors in different areas .hope none of ye ever get some of the North tipp contingent

Milked out

frazzledhome wrote: »

If this thread displays any thing its the fact that any dairy farmer who sows maize in Ireland needs their head tested.

If stocked where winter feed needs to be bought in its an option, if on your own ground/ rented ground I wouldn't as that could be used got grazing replacements and quality silage when in control yourself and get more value from the ground . Neighbours were letting there ground out with a caveat of no stock on it and I didn't even enquire, besides having enuv taken on myself for now, as I feel to be growing feed for the stock the best value is cattle grazing it spring and autumn and cutting good silage come summer from excess. It ended up going for reported 300 acre for 7 yrs to a tillage man with another dairy man running him close. Again that's a here say figure but wouldn't surprise me

Dawggone

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was at a walk last summer in a farm going from winter milk to all spring. Good operator etc etc.
any way his sinopsis was that most in ireland only sow it for a status symbols and it's always sown beside the road.
Beet is a much more consistent crop and great feeding.

A man speaking at moorepark on Wednesday who started in 2011 said he started grazing it for first time last autumn.
fats of 6 and proteins of 5.
that's when bills get paid was his comment.
This man has no sheds 130 cows out wintered on kale and couldn't get a loan from banks when starting out because he had no 'experience'. Started on 20ha and has grown to 65ha today.
These ladd are going to knock the socks off every existing farmer in yrs to come

One final point of his.
'All the machinery i need is 20 Gallagher geared reels about 5000 pig tails and a plate meter and i can do anything'

Excellent post Greengrass.
That about sums up what grass based/low cost systems SHOULD be.

Too much hardship for me though...

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

To play devils advocate he may also be put out of business by co co or dept inspections ..unreal the difference in inspectors in different areas .hope none of ye ever get some of the North tipp contingent

The question was asked and never got in trouble he has storage and as long as a ring feeder isn't left in the one spot all winter and cows are back fenced. He's on very very dry land in skibbereen

Greengrass1

Dawggone wrote: »

Excellent post Greengrass.
That about sums up what grass based/low cost systems SHOULD be.

Too much hardship for me though...

This man said it out right he loves hardship and he loves muck lol. He has a day job and gers up at 4 30 every morning. Just really loves cows. Had a 9% empty rate his first yr and is still giving out to himself over it

Timmaay

Greengrass1 wrote: »

This man said it out right he loves hardship and he loves muck lol. He has a day job and gers up at 4 30 every morning. Just really loves cows. Had a 9% empty rate his first yr and is still giving out to himself over it

Hardship has many different forms. Hardship could equally so having a lovely fancy shed, parlour, nice tractor etc , but the overdraft maxed out every month, and repayments hanging over you etc etc!

jaymla627

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was at a walk last summer in a farm going from winter milk to all spring. Good operator etc etc.
any way his sinopsis was that most in ireland only sow it for a status symbols and it's always sown beside the road.
Beet is a much more consistent crop and great feeding.

A man speaking at moorepark on Wednesday who started in 2011 said he started grazing it for first time last autumn.
fats of 6 and proteins of 5.
that's when bills get paid was his comment.
This man has no sheds 130 cows out wintered on kale and couldn't get a loan from banks when starting out because he had no 'experience'. Started on 20ha and has grown to 65ha today.
These ladd are going to knock the socks off every existing farmer in yrs to come

One final point of his.
'All the machinery i need is 20 Gallagher geared reels about 5000 pig tails and a plate meter and i can do anything'

Got the t-shirt at that craic out in Australia, not a shed/feed pad to be seen with kale etc feed out along with silage in fields, then it dosent stop raining for 4 months bang in the middle of calving season.
Final straw for me in one place was we had to start putting bales of hay out in calving paddock to provide a calving area so to speak and some feed, cue cows going to calve against said bales and ending in their backs when they rolled of them into the **** resulting in downer cow and dead calf....
Systems like that are self inflicted torture on man and beast when it goes wrong the thing is lads reckon they're saving a fortune/low cost if you add up the costs of mastitis/lameness/culling rates and damage done to ground it probably costs more then throwing up a shed the first day and be done with it, never liked grazing root crops/kale with cows either in wet conditions intake of clay is a serious problem and cows lose their shine look very raggy

Greengrass1

Ahh jesus lads I just posted something about a lad who loves what he does and there's always someone to give out about what he's doing.

Nothing about how well he's done to grow up to 65ha 130 cows from never have been interested in cows or farming and couldn't get any money from banks

yosemitesam1

Greengrass1 wrote: »

The question was asked and never got in trouble he has storage and as long as a ring feeder isn't left in the one spot all winter and cows are back fenced. He's on very very dry land in skibbereen

Hopefully it won't catch on, no doubt stricter nitrates would be brought in.

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

To play devils advocate he may also be put out of business by co co or dept inspections ..unreal the difference in inspectors in different areas .hope none of ye ever get some of the North tipp contingent

Suckler farmer beside us was "outwintering" 200 cows and followers for the past 25 odd years no sheds bar hay barns...
Council payed him a visit last year end result was he was made spend 200k plus on sheds before winter came, these guys have serious powers and can shut down your farm at the drop of a hat if your proven to be messing/haven't proper accommodation

Deepsouthwest

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was at a walk last summer in a farm going from winter milk to all spring. Good operator etc etc.
any way his sinopsis was that most in ireland only sow it for a status symbols and it's always sown beside the road.
Beet is a much more consistent crop and great feeding.

A man speaking at moorepark on Wednesday who started in 2011 said he started grazing it for first time last autumn.
fats of 6 and proteins of 5.
that's when bills get paid was his comment.
This man has no sheds 130 cows out wintered on kale and couldn't get a loan from banks when starting out because he had no 'experience'. Started on 20ha and has grown to 65ha today.
These ladd are going to knock the socks off every existing farmer in yrs to come

One final point of his.
'All the machinery i need is 20 Gallagher geared reels about 5000 pig tails and a plate meter and i can do anything'

I gave that man a spin up and down on wednesday, and yeah He's certainly a farming enthusiast, can't understand all the concrete I've poured over the last few yrs though, u can imagine the banter!

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ahh jesus lads I just posted something about a lad who loves what he does and there's always someone to give out about what he's doing.

Nothing about how well he's done to grow up to 65ha 130 cows from never have been interested in cows or farming and couldn't get any money from banks

Fair play to him from getting where he was to where he is now .hardly sustainable long term though ,what's his plans ??.as I said one co co or nitrates inspection could put the whole operation at risk at the stroke of a pen..

browned

Given the man in question is related to me I think one think has to be cleared up on his system. The 20ha is owned and the rest leased from various sources with a variety of terms. If he spend his money on builting sheds etc and the lease came up for sale would he be in a position to buy. What If he lost the lease and had reduce land base. Without putting in concrete he isn't tied to his 20ha owned block. God forbid he lost all his leased would any of ye want to pay for facilities for 130 cows on only 50 acres and no options. He can built up his herd now pocket money and move on to a larger block if the opportunity arises.

Greengrass1

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I gave that man a spin up and down on wednesday, and yeah He's certainly a farming enthusiast, can't understand all the concrete I've poured over the last few yrs though, u can imagine the banter!

Do you know the lad that John Mccarthy pulled out from the side of the tent in Wednesday.
from Cork don't know where abouts but is milking cows OAD did 415 kgs sold last yr on little or no meal. Has a off farm job too

Milked out

browned wrote: »

Given the man in question is related to me I think one think has to be cleared up on his system. The 20ha is owned and the rest leased from various sources with a variety of terms. If he spend his money on builting sheds etc and the lease came up for sale would he be in a position to buy. What If he lost the lease and had reduce land base. Without putting in concrete he isn't tied to his 20ha owned block. God forbid he lost all his leased would any of ye want to pay for facilities for 130 cows on only 50 acres and no options. He can built up his herd now pocket money and move on to a larger block if the opportunity arises.

Have heard of a situation as you describe, sheds built with new parlour on owned land with surrounding land rented only for a son to arrive home to farm that land leaving him with large sheds/loans and half his milking block gone

browned

Milked out wrote: »

Have heard of a situation as you describe, sheds built with new parlour on owned land with surrounding land rented only for a son to arrive home to farm that land leaving him with large sheds/loans and half his milking block gone

It's a different way of thinking about a situation and he should be congratulated for his access meant of his particular circumstances. I myself would question the long term sustainability like others but for a new fellow starting off its a great way to built a herd. All monies go back to stock or soil fertility instead of repaying concrete

browned

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Do you know the lad that John Mccarthy pulled out from the side of the tent in Wednesday.
from Cork don't know where abouts but is milking cows OAD did 415 kgs sold last yr on little or no meal. Has a off farm job too

If that's his performance I'd question why some of us are still on tad. Super performance and to factor in the added fertility and not having to milk in the evening.

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Do you know the lad that John Mccarthy pulled out from the side of the tent in Wednesday.
from Cork don't know where abouts but is milking cows OAD did 415 kgs sold last yr on little or no meal. Has a off farm job too

Tell us more...

Greengrass1

jaymla627 wrote: »

Got the t-shirt at that craic out in Australia, not a shed/feed pad to be seen with kale etc feed out along with silage in fields, then it dosent stop raining for 4 months bang in the middle of calving season.
Final straw for me in one place was we had to start putting bales of hay out in calving paddock to provide a calving area so to speak and some feed, cue cows going to calve against said bales and ending in their backs when they rolled of them into the **** resulting in downer cow and dead calf....
Systems like that are self inflicted torture on man and beast when it goes wrong the thing is lads reckon they're saving a fortune/low cost if you add up the costs of mastitis/lameness/culling rates and damage done to ground it probably costs more then throwing up a shed the first day and be done with it, never liked grazing root crops/kale with cows either in wet conditions intake of clay is a serious problem and cows lose their shine look very raggy

If mam and dad were still in the old farm there would be no hope of me coming home to farm just too small. I would be doing the very same as this lad and **** the dept. Be aswell off without the payments for the amount if hoops they make us jump through

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

Tell us more...

That's all I really know jdi. Milks in the morning before work and has a lad to do other work that needs to be done during the day I'm sure

frazzledhome

Firstly, hats off to that guy for he has the balls that most don't. If that's what the much decried "kiwi" way is I'm all for it.

I know a business who started with 70% land leased and in the last 12 yrs has bought 2 farms. They out wintered on Kale they leased quota they bought quota they made mistakes not because they were stupid but things go wrong.

They refused to invest in buildings only having built 1 shed, a calving shed in 2002. They dug a lagoon for compliance they rented and rent sheds for stock. They B&B stock to stay under nitrates. They got in bother with CoCo but had the reserves to deal with things

They installed 2 parlours in hay sheds and milk there today. Each parlour was done for <40k inc shand tanks. One has since been replaced. They refused to put any toys in those parlours because all they wanted was milk in the tank, cause that all that actually matters.

They invested up front in 3km of roads fencing and water system.

They have been pilloried here for stand off pads, putting in topless cubicles etc.

Funny thing is the decision they now have to make is do they milk another 250 cows on a third farm which is ready to go or sell these stock.

I like the position they find themselves in. Had they listened to the kinda stuff that goes on here and was said behind their backs starting out about hardship etc where do you think they'd be today. The 2 bought farms were leased farms that were put up for sale. It would be some position to be in having a fleet of Deeres and a comfy shed but no land to walk the cows on.

All circumstances are different and people have very different ambitions.

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

That's all I really know jdi. Milks in the morning before work and has a lad to do other work that needs to be done during the day I'm sure

Yeah I've heard reliable reports of a lad that switched to OAD and as a family they are reaping the benefits. He does the school drop, milks etc and is finished in time for the school pick-up. Needless to say OH works full time and fair duece to them. Each to their own.

just do it

I've great admiration for these ballsy guys who grab the bull by the horns and chased their dreams. They've rolled up their sleeves, worked hard, stuck with a particular strategy, and come out fighting the other side. Real entrepreneurs.

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Firstly, hats off to that guy for he has the balls that most don't. If that's what the much decried "kiwi" way is I'm all for it.

+1. Doesn't matter if it's "kiwi" way yanks way or whatever. It's HIS way.
DSW might get him to Boards so we can get another, fresh, perspective on things.
Guys like that can open one's eyes.

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

If mam and dad were still in the old farm there would be no hope of me coming home to farm just too small. I would be doing the very same as this lad and **** the dept. Be aswell off without the payments for the amount if hoops they make us jump through

Big statement gg fook the dept fook the co co fook the sfp !!.most of us here wouldn't survive without it .not a criticism but how would u think his neighbour would feel after investing slurry storage etc to be nitrates compliant and then see guy over the ditch with no storage virtually and cows out wintered etc .it amazes me talking to lads from different parts the different takes inspectors have on different things which can cause a farmer major headaches

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Big statement gg fook the dept fook the co co fook the sfp !!.most of us here wouldn't survive without it .not a criticism but how would u think his neighbour would feel after investing slurry storage etc to be nitrates compliant and then see guy over the ditch with no storage virtually and cows out wintered etc .it amazes me talking to lads from different parts the different takes inspectors have on different things which can cause a farmer major headaches

Mj I rented land last yr with no entitlements attached now say I was going out on my own and took a bigger block with no entitlements.
what could dept do to me if I was out wintering and had storage?
How do the dept expect to get young farmers into farming if there not going to give them a chance to get there feet under thrm.

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Mj I rented land last yr with no entitlements attached now say I was going out on my own and took a bigger block with no entitlements.
what could dept do to me if I was out wintering and had storage?
How do the dept expect to get young farmers into farming if there not going to give them a chance to get there feet under thrm.

Your creating double standards then,60% tams grant available for young farmersto give them a chance . .nitrates and regulations only going to get worse .why should farmers who had to invest in storage etc to become compliant have to look over the ditch at someone who isn't giving them the 2 fingers basically .

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Your creating double standards then,60% tams grant available for young farmersto give them a chance . .nitrates and regulations only going to get worse .why should farmers who had to invest in storage etc to become compliant have to look over the ditch at someone who isn't giving them the 2 fingers basically .

How about this mj
was told this the other day.
say a farmer with 80 cows last yr and 100 this yr applies for grant. Straight away he gets slammed with a cross compliance. Even though farmer on paper might not enough storage but got through winter fine.
Not enough young lads with this lads initiative. Having enough storage is only a paper exercise

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Having enough storage is only a paper exercise

:eek: so i and alot of other farmers spent a serious amount of money getting everything right for nothing