Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

kevthegaff

frazzledhome wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the world market price for milk would be if quota still existed?

What would we be getting? much the same id say

Are any if you that are giving out about co op boards putting yourselves forward to become leaders of that business?fair play to board members but some co ops as gerry said might as well have them on x box

How doable is it for all our milk to be going into Artisan foods?personally think artisan foods suit small producers, not sure is enough of market for the majority of milk

Is the Carbury model repeatable around the country? It is the most successful model in the country as they have some great products and markets. They have always distributed profits between members in milk price and rightly so. i dont agree with a plc, is carbery one?

Name a coop not supporting milk price at the moment?none are, its all producers money, only supported suppliers are new entrants

What do ye think will be achieved by blocking roads and other acts of vandalism that some feel we should do?we will just piss off people and personally i dont have the time

We are at a stage where milk production world wide is at an all time high, quotas are gone in EU and low oil and grain prices world wide are driving this oversupply.

It has been flagged for the last 3 yrs that supply was outstripping demand so this point was inevitable. Markets will have to sort this out. The EU riding in to save the day won't happen yet and perhaps shouldn't happen as it will delay any recovery.

agree about intervention wer only saving the big guns, survivsl of the fittest is the way forward, high input systems/high loan cow ratio countries such as scandinavia, dutch, us will pull back but will take time

Buford T. Justice XIX

frazzledhome wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the world market price for milk would be if quota still existed?

What would we be getting?

Are any if you that are giving out about co op boards putting yourselves forward to become leaders of that business?

How doable is it for all our milk to be going into Artisan foods?

Is the Carbury model repeatable around the country? It is the most successful model in the country as they have some great products and markets. They have always distributed profits between members in milk price and rightly so.

Name a coop not supporting milk price at the moment?

What do ye think will be achieved by blocking roads and other acts of vandalism that some feel we should do?

We are at a stage where milk production world wide is at an all time high, quotas are gone in EU and low oil and grain prices world wide are driving this oversupply.

It has been flagged for the last 3 yrs that supply was outstripping demand so this point was inevitable. Markets will have to sort this out. The EU riding in to save the day won't happen yet and perhaps shouldn't happen as it will delay any recovery.

On the above point, I don't know if it's the same in other processors but the vast majority of seats in the advisory committees here are 'family' seats. One i know of has been passed from grandfather, to father to son:rolleyes:

Now they may well be the best representatives in an area but in most cases i would doubt it. One lad I was sitting next to at a meeting one night was after taking up his fathers seat and was telling me of the great craic they used have going on the reps trips to other countries paid for by the poor cow, of course.

Two of the 3 seats in my area are family seats and no-one will vote in someone else, you would nearly be boycotted if you even ran.

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On the above point, I don't know if it's the same in other processors but the vast majority of seats in the advisory committees here are 'family' seats. One i know of has been passed from grandfather, to father to son:rolleyes:

Now they may well be the best representatives in an area but in most cases i would doubt it. One lad I was sitting next to at a meeting one night was after taking up his fathers seat and was telling me of the great craic they used have going on the reps trips to other countries paid for by the poor cow, of course.

Two of the 3 seats in my area are family seats and no-one will vote in someone else, you would nearly be boycotted if you even ran.

Bang on the money for the most part there

Markcheese

Not a chance could artisan food products take most of our dairy production - but they could take a lot more- at the moment pretty much all are our artisan dairy is one farmer/or one individual even the bigger names like gubbeen ,it's one dairy farm,
In France a lot of "artisan " product is made by co-ops - wether it's compte cheese ( a regional cheese ,made many small co-ops and farmers but with an overall controlling body) - but not sold as a commodity, it's consumer branded a bit like Parmegano regiano ( parmesan)

rangler1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bang on the money for the most part there

Same in all organisations, it has to be made attractive (Trips, expenses,etc.) or no one would bother taking up the positions

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bang on the money for the most part there

is there an age limit and should there not be a term, like 8-10 years maximum allowed to be served by any 1 individual?

keep going

mahoney_j wrote: »

Gave over a year on rep committee and absolute waste of my time ,board was been restructured earlier this year and didn't canvass for any votes and notvrelected and quite happy.no one should be on a board just cause they've a good knowledge of a dairy farm etc.personally found it unfulfilling ,closed shop as regards new views ,change would be very hard got ,im35 and majority of other members were 10 to 20 years older than me and had been there for years
Yes we're at an all time high re production but our coops need to be more efficient and open minded to new ventures etc

So thats it ,one year and you walk away.what did you expect was going to happen.look I dont want to get at you but I too went on a coop board at a relatively young age, it took time to find my feet and build relationships in order to get things done and the biggest thing I learnt was that other people could look at a situation completely different to me and its majority rules.also running your own business you are used 5o deciding things your self and acting on decision s whereas people who work in groups are most used to taking other peoples views on board.

freedominacup

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On the above point, I don't know if it's the same in other processors but the vast majority of seats in the advisory committees here are 'family' seats. One i know of has been passed from grandfather, to father to son:rolleyes:

Now they may well be the best representatives in an area but in most cases i would doubt it. One lad I was sitting next to at a meeting one night was after taking up his fathers seat and was telling me of the great craic they used have going on the reps trips to other countries paid for by the poor cow, of course.

Two of the 3 seats in my area are family seats and no-one will vote in someone else, you would nearly be boycotted if you even ran.

I'm not sure if I posted this before. On the family seats. A German industrialist made his home around this area when he opened a factory in Waterford. He bought some land and started farming it. The type of man he was he had a strong interest in seeing local businesses do well so he dealt with waterford coop and became a shareholder. An advisory member died and his son was canvassing to get the seat. Called to our German friend for his vote. German brings the candidate in sits him down pulls out the plc annual report and proceeds to quiz him on the contents. Needless to say our candidate was found wanting. Until we start hauling these boys over the coals we're going to continue to get the representation we deserve.

keep going

whelan2 wrote: »

is there an age limit and should there not be a term, like 8-10 years maximum allowed to be served by any 1 individual?

Those things apply in our coop and very healthy, would probably say ten is better 5han eight from getting experenced chairmen but the turnover of board members is very healthy

freedominacup

keep going wrote: »

So thats it ,one year and you walk away.what did you expect was going to happen.look I dont want to get at you but I too went on a coop board at a relatively young age, it took time to find my feet and build relationships in order to get things done and the biggest thing I learnt was that other people could look at a situation completely different to me and its majority rules.also running your own business you are used 5o deciding things your self and acting on decision s whereas people who work in groups are most used to taking other peoples views on board.

The board is not there to get things done. It's there to hold management to account. Getting things done is the ceo's job.

keep going

freedominacup wrote: »

The board is not there to get things done. It's there to hold management to account. Getting things done is the ceo's job.

No , boards are there to decide on the direction it should take and the management are there to carry it out and make sure it is done

mahoney_j

keep going wrote: »

So thats it ,one year and you walk away.what did you expect was going to happen.look I dont want to get at you but I too went on a coop board at a relatively young age, it took time to find my feet and build relationships in order to get things done and the biggest thing I learnt was that other people could look at a situation completely different to me and its majority rules.also running your own business you are used 5o deciding things your self and acting on decision s whereas people who work in groups are most used to taking other peoples views on board.

No offence taken.i went on ,took my dads seat and was unopposed .id have an interest and down the road I will go again.first few meetings were just sitting there taking things in and seen how it operates.i wasn't expecting to change the world or get elected on to main board but from what I seen I wasn't impressed .absoutely no offence to anyone on board I was on or any other but majority have no place sitting on one.they are dairy farmers primarily but ax seat on a coop board requires a lot more.i quickly figured out there was a way of doing things that was always done ,there was little counter argument or anyone really shoving an opposing view.no training provided etc.it was for me a let down
Board I was on was and is been restructured and I was up this year in March (peak of busy spring)I didn't canvass as at this stage it wasn't for me due to
1 dads ill health
2 no time to canvass or make small talk or beg for votes at my busiest time of year
3 a feeling that I'd be wasting my time sitting on something that would be slow or maby never change or accept differing opinions
4 I wasn't anywhere near qualified enough to take up such a position even though I am very interested
5 I'm still relatively young ,developing my farm and have a young family and know if I really embraced this it would consume too much of my time
In my praticular coop we have long standing issues and devides .some of our best board members with 15 years plus experience have stepped down and moved supplier recently .these were lads who gave years fighting issues and eventually just got fed up of it as it gets very time consuming .

mf240

We were probably getting rode up a stick at 39 cent last year but we were happy out.

The problem with being on the the board is it takes up too much time for someone who is actively farming. Be ok if you have family members doing the work at home for you. or someone whos semi retired. So the ones we really need dont have the time for it.

Dont think quotas going will make any difference to price. At least the next time the price peaks we will be able to drive on production and fill up the piggy bank.

rangler1

mf240 wrote: »

We were probably getting rode up a stick at 39 cent last year but we were happy out.

The problem with being on the the board is it takes up too much time for someone who is actively farming. Be ok if you have family members doing the work at home for you. or someone whos semi retired. So the ones we really need dont have the time for it.

Dont think quotas going will make any difference to price. At least the next time the price peaks we will be able to drive on production and fill up the piggy bank.

Most are driving on production already

keep going

mahoney_j wrote: »

No offence taken.i went on ,took my dads seat and was unopposed .id have an interest and down the road I will go again.first few meetings were just sitting there taking things in and seen how it operates.i wasn't expecting to change the world or get elected on to main board but from what I seen I wasn't impressed .absoutely no offence to anyone on board I was on or any other but majority have no place sitting on one.they are dairy farmers primarily but ax seat on a coop board requires a lot more.i quickly figured out there was a way of doing things that was always done ,there was little counter argument or anyone really shoving an opposing view.no training provided etc.it was for me a let down
Board I was on was and is been restructured and I was up this year in March (peak of busy spring)I didn't canvass as at this stage it wasn't for me due to
1 dads ill health
2 no time to canvass or make small talk or beg for votes at my busiest time of year
3 a feeling that I'd be wasting my time sitting on something that would be slow or maby never change or accept differing opinions
4 I wasn't anywhere near qualified enough to take up such a position even though I am very interested
5 I'm still relatively young ,developing my farm and have a young family and know if I really embraced this it would consume too much of my time
In my praticular coop we have long standing issues and devides .some of our best board members with 15 years plus experience have stepped down and moved supplier recently .these were lads who gave years fighting issues and eventually just got fed up of it as it gets very time consuming
Fair enough but your milk processor is of equal importance to your business as your herd of cows, its up to you to mind it.m8st coops that have set terms now have training in place as well .but yes I recently declined a chance of amore involved position in our coop on similar grounds.

mahoney_j

keep going wrote: »

mahoney_j wrote: »

No offence taken.i went on ,took my dads seat and was unopposed .id have an interest and down the road I will go again.first few meetings were just sitting there taking things in and seen how it operates.i wasn't expecting to change the world or get elected on to main board but from what I seen I wasn't impressed .absoutely no offence to anyone on board I was on or any other but majority have no place sitting on one.they are dairy farmers primarily but ax seat on a coop board requires a lot more.i quickly figured out there was a way of doing things that was always done ,there was little counter argument or anyone really shoving an opposing view.no training provided etc.it was for me a let down
Board I was on was and is been restructured and I was up this year in March (peak of busy spring)I didn't canvass as at this stage it wasn't for me due to
1 dads ill health
2 no time to canvass or make small talk or beg for votes at my busiest time of year
3 a feeling that I'd be wasting my time sitting on something that would be slow or maby never change or accept differing opinions
4 I wasn't anywhere near qualified enough to take up such a position even though I am very interested
5 I'm still relatively young ,developing my farm and have a young family and know if I really embraced this it would consume too much of my time
In my praticular coop we have long standing issues and devides .some of our best board members with 15 years plus experience have stepped down and moved supplier recently .these were lads who gave years fighting issues and eventually just got fed up of it as it gets very time consuming
Fair enough but your milk processor is of equal importance to your business as your herd of cows, its up to you to mind it.m8st coops that have set terms now have training in place as well .but yes I recently declined a chance of amore involved position in our coop on similar grounds.

Training is provided for main board here and not rep committee which is crazy.u could give years on rep comm and get elected to main board with zero training.also been on rep committee your told very little of the important stuff(understand some things can't be told )eg last year a rival coop put a proposal for a merger to main board in early May first we were told of it was late October even though we already knew more than we were told at that stage from media and talk on the ground

kowtow

Markcheese wrote: »

Not a chance could artisan food products take most of our dairy production - but they could take a lot more- at the moment pretty much all are our artisan dairy is one farmer/or one individual even the bigger names like gubbeen ,it's one dairy farm,
In France a lot of "artisan " product is made by co-ops - wether it's compte cheese ( a regional cheese ,made many small co-ops and farmers but with an overall controlling body) - but not sold as a commodity, it's consumer branded a bit like Parmegano regiano ( parmesan)

What worries me is that while we pay lip service to Artisan foods, at an industry level some of the things we do are real dangers to the production of quality products. Two examples spring to mind:

1. The continuing scare campaign against raw milk (for example the recent report highlighting e-coli in "raw milk" as grounds for restricting raw milk sales, not mentioning that the farms analysed were all producing milk for the co-op - which, like all milk, happened to be raw at the filter & the bulk tank.)

2. Perhaps more worryingly the restrictions in some (all?) milk supply agreements being issued by co-ops. As written, these actually prevent a farmer using his own milk to produce cheese, or other dairy products, even on his own farm.


If we want to be world famous for the quality of our milk - and we certainly could be - issues like this are a big step in the wrong direction.

frazzledhome

kowtow wrote: »

What worries me is that while we pay lip service to Artisan foods, at an industry level some of the things we do are real dangers to the production of quality products. Two examples spring to mind:

1. The continuing scare campaign against raw milk (for example the recent report highlighting e-coli in "raw milk" as grounds for restricting raw milk sales, not mentioning that the farms analysed were all producing milk for the co-op - which, like all milk, happened to be raw at the filter & the bulk tank.)

2. Perhaps more worryingly the restrictions in some (all?) milk supply agreements being issued by co-ops. As written, these actually prevent a farmer using his own milk to produce cheese, or other dairy products, even on his own farm.


If we want to be world famous for the quality of our milk - and we certainly could be - issues like this are a big step in the wrong direction.

All these Artisan foods and farmers markets look lovely on telly. Any I've ever visited are over priced with only 1 or 2 offering any kind of wow/value.

We export 90% of our production and the quickest way off the island is the way to go. Let R&D continue and if niche products are developed well and good but they won't do much for our prices

awaywithyou

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

On the above point, I don't know if it's the same in other processors but the vast majority of seats in the advisory committees here are 'family' seats. One i know of has been passed from grandfather, to father to son:rolleyes:

Now they may well be the best representatives in an area but in most cases i would doubt it. One lad I was sitting next to at a meeting one night was after taking up his fathers seat and was telling me of the great craic they used have going on the reps trips to other countries paid for by the poor cow, of course.

Two of the 3 seats in my area are family seats and no-one will vote in someone else, you would nearly be boycotted if you even ran.

did ya contest an election...? you seem to be taking it badly...!! agree wtih you though... family seats all the way..... but to be honest it doesnt interest me in the slightest....

father was approached yrs ago to become a committee member.. he wasnt interested.... pity your man said we're heading to the usa for a trip lsater in yr it'll be great craic...!

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

did ya contest an election...? you seem to be taking it badly...!! agree wtih you though... family seats all the way..... but to be honest it doesnt interest me in the slightest....

father was approached yrs ago to become a committee member.. he wasnt interested.... pity your man said we're heading to the usa for a trip lsater in yr it'll be great craic...!

Yeah, I can see how that looks now:D


No, I haven't run for election but was asked to run against the lad I was canvassing with:rolleyes:

There are plenty of lads better able to both run and do the business on the committee than me, so I doubt I will be running in the future either.

Look, I have no grudge against the lads on the committees or going on the foreign trips. The trips are essential, both as a reward for work done during the year and for lads to get to know and understand each other for work on the committees.

But I do object to lads just showing up for a free holiday while having done nothing to justify getting the trip, like the lad i mentioned before.

whelan2

http://www.donedeal.ie/dairycattle-for-sale/glanbia-giil-contract-update/10006977?offset=1

mf240

whelan2 wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/dairycattle-for-sale/glanbia-giil-contract-update/10006977?offset=1

Wonder what the cows are like.?? Might be a bit of value around this year.

kevthegaff

whelan2 wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/dairycattle-for-sale/glanbia-giil-contract-update/10006977?offset=1

Why is there so much animosity to the new contract? Heard alot of the lads that switched from arrabawn are pi**sed off too.

jaymla627

kevthegaff wrote: »

Why is there so much animosity to the new contract? Heard alot of the lads that switched from arrabawn are pi**sed off too.

The glanbia contract if brought to court wouldn't stand up, the number one reason being the paragraph about family members having to supply them if they take over the enterprise, as far as I'm aware and on grilling my milk advisor over it was put in quiet hastadily at the last minute after they where questioned about it at a information meeting was priceless seeing the dumbfounded look on the head boys/ladies faces when my ole lad asked them it which at the time they had no reply for and muttered something about hoping upon farm transfer/son taking over they would stick with glanbia

CelticRambler

Interesting discussion on French radio this morning. The Minister for Agriculture was blaming (amongst others) the Irish for wanting to abolish milk quotas, and telling us how he tried to persuade (all) the other EU member states that it was a bad idea ...

The Germans have reacted (or maybe it was just coincidence) by reporting France to the EU commission for price fixing and unlawful subsidies, i.e., the "save the farmers" package announced last week. :rolleyes:

The French have retaliated by blocking the border crossings with Germany and Spain today to lorries carrying inbound foodstuffs, and raiding foreign artics already in the country. :eek:

The Spanish have responded by warning the French government to bring their farmers under control tout de suite or they'll face legal action and a hefty bill for compensation. :mad:

For good measure, DFDS ferries have said they're pulling out of Calais because they don't like disgruntled unemployed shipworkers using their vessels for target practice, while the EU has told France it's got to get Michael O'Leary to pay back 10m € he was given for "advertising" ...

All that and it's only Monday. It's going to be a fun week!

kowtow

jaymla627 wrote: »

The glanbia contract if brought to court wouldn't stand up, the number one reason being the paragraph about family members having to supply them if they take over the enterprise, as far as I'm aware and on grilling my milk advisor over it was put in quiet hastadily at the last minute after they where questioned about it at a information meeting was priceless seeing the dumbfounded look on the head boys/ladies faces when my ole lad asked them it which at the time they had no reply for and muttered something about hoping upon farm transfer/son taking over they would stick with glanbia

Not being a party to any of them I have never seen the detailed paperwork that covered any of these co-op deals - both the PLC spinouts etc. and the milk suppliers agreements.

But did anyone really have these looked at hard and critically at the time? Didn't any suppliers group together and get Counsel's written opinion - not a Solicitors advice, but a proper considered and reasoned opinion?

I ask this not only from the perspective of the hard pressed / disgruntled suppliers - but also from the standpoint of the various boards and the shareholders they answer to, especially the PLC's - if these entities are or become aware that they are party to contracts which are, or are likely to be, unenforceable then they are likely to find themselves under an obligation to disclose this to shareholders either by a note in the accounts or a specific announcement.

The suggestion in the link above that the supply agreement requires a farmer to bind his successor(s) is a good example, fraught with difficulty. There are circumstances where both the benefits & obligations of a contract can be passed on to heirs but considering that the heirs in question are not a party to the contract, and exclusivity is demanded, I'd be surprised if it didn't run into endless problems with restraint of trade etc.

frazzledhome

CelticRambler wrote: »

Interesting discussion on French radio this morning. The Minister for Agriculture was blaming (amongst others) the Irish for wanting to abolish milk quotas, and telling us how he tried to persuade (all) the other EU member states that it was a bad idea ...

The Germans have reacted (or maybe it was just coincidence) by reporting France to the EU commission for price fixing and unlawful subsidies, i.e., the "save the farmers" package announced last week. :rolleyes:

The French have retaliated by blocking the border crossings with Germany and Spain today to lorries carrying inbound foodstuffs, and raiding foreign artics already in the country. :eek:

The Spanish have responded by warning the French government to bring their farmers under control tout de suite or they'll face legal action and a hefty bill for compensation. :mad:

For good measure, DFDS ferries have said they're pulling out of Calais because they don't like disgruntled unemployed shipworkers using their vessels for target practice, while the EU has told France it's got to get Michael O'Leary to pay back 10m € he was given for "advertising" ...

All that and it's only Monday. It's going to be a fun week!

Brilliant
Looking forward to tomorrow's update

Buford T. Justice XIX

frazzledhome wrote: »

Brilliant
Looking forward to tomorrow's update

+2:D

RightTurnClyde

Interesting article about the commodities market at the moment
http://econ.st/1gLRQYH

frazzledhome

jaymla627 wrote: »

The glanbia contract if brought to court wouldn't stand up, the number one reason being the paragraph about family members having to supply them if they take over the enterprise, as far as I'm aware and on grilling my milk advisor over it was put in quiet hastadily at the last minute after they where questioned about it at a information meeting was priceless seeing the dumbfounded look on the head boys/ladies faces when my ole lad asked them it which at the time they had no reply for and muttered something about hoping upon farm transfer/son taking over they would stick with glanbia

Why hasn't it been challenged?

Ans. Because most suppliers see it as a non issue. 15-20 suppliers left without one signed. Speaks volumes about the few including that guy who posted the above ad