UFC on Fox: Henderson vs. Melendez

stealinhorses

Mellor wrote: »

Who ever is the champ before the match is irrelevant. It doesn't factor in to it at all.
Each round is scored in isolation. Who ever won 3 (or more) is the winner. Simple as that.

If its a draw round score it as such. But giving a round to Henderson because he is the champ is idiotic.

When I said this, I meant it in terms of "I'm ok with Melendez not winning, because he didn't do enough to prove he's better than Henderson in my eyes", rather than "the judges gave each close round to Bendo because he's the champ".

MrStuffins

stealinhorses wrote: »

When I said this, I meant it in terms of "I'm ok with Melendez not winning, because he didn't do enough to prove he's better than Henderson in my eyes", rather than "the judges gave each close round to Bendo because he's the champ".

Indeed. But at the end of the day it should come down to the fight, and therefore the individual rounds you know?

It was such a close fight though it really could've gone either way. Cesar Gracie's team really ain't having a good run in their UFC title shots!

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

Well your entire argument is that you think this never happens to begin with, so if you'd have ever thought it then your opinion would be different...

Is it? I wasn't sure I had an argument at all. Why is it that you keep presuming what it is I think about everything?

I'll give you a very recent example of human bias potentially coming into play in judging decisions: Urijah Hall was expected to dominate the TUF 17 finale, right? ......

That's all very interesting (probably) but i'm not sure why you keep throwing these long winded posts at me. I never once mentioned in any post here a reason as to why it might happen, why it might not happen, human bias......... I was talking about a specific type of bias. That which would see a judge give a fight (round) to a fighter who is the Champion. I said it shouldn't happen.

Whatever other points you wish to make on the matter have nothing to do with me or anything i've said.

leggo

MrStuffins wrote: »

Is it? I wasn't sure I had an argument at all. Why is it that you keep presuming what it is I think about everything?

You literally said this in a post less than a page ago, I'll even make it bold so it's nice and clear for you:

And to be honest, I don't actually think this happens in MMA.

Am I imagining you said that? Is that quote a 'presumption' that I just invented in my brain right now?

MrStuffins wrote: »

That's all very interesting but i'm not sure why you keep throwing these long winded posts at me. I never once mentioned in any post here a reason as to why it might happen, why it might not happen, human bias......... I was talking about a specific type of bias. That which would see a judge give a fight (round) to a fighter who is the Champion. I said it shouldn't happen.

Whatever other points you wish to make on the matter have nothing to do with me or anything i've said.

Do you realise what it is you're actually saying though?

To say that that bias shouldn't happen, you're saying that human bias shouldn't happen, because that bias is human nature. And I've given you multiple examples now of how this is so.

You just smack of not wanting to back down from your opinion when it's been proved conclusively stupid now. We all agree with the problem, but the solution (to ban judges, who are ALL human and thus ALL culpable to this) isn't possible. Again this isn't me presuming anything, I'll include the quote again:

MrStuffins wrote: »

The criteria for judging is well established. If the judges can't follow them, they shouldn't judge. Simple.

So moaning about it is like moaning that they should ban heavy rain. It just exists. Deal with it.

If you don't want to admit you're wrong, just stop posting on the matter. That's fine. I don't particularly want to keep arguing myself, the matter has been settled for a couple of pages now. So all we have left is you distancing yourself from your original arguments and not admitting you're wrong.

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

Do you realise what it is you're actually saying though?

To say that that bias shouldn't happen, you're saying that human bias shouldn't happen, because that bias is human nature. And I've given you multiple examples now of how this is so.

Again, that's probably very interesting, but i'm not sure how you showing me that some people can be biased is in disagreement with me saying that the criteria of being the Champ shouldn't be taken into account.

You just smack of not wanting to back down from your opinion when it's been proved conclusively stupid now.

Dude, i'm sorry but you're wrong here. If you can show me where I actually expressed an opinion on this i'll clear anything up you want. Show me where i've disagreed with any of your points about Human Nature and Bias?

I'm the one who said if you wish to continue the discussion feel free to PM me. Also, the fact you insist on using words like "Moaning", "Crying", "Stupid and telling me so "Now shh" doesn't lend you any weight in discussion.

We all agree with the problem, but the solution (to ban judges, who are human and thus culpable to this) isn't possible. So moaning about it is like moaning that they should ban heavy rain.

Who is moaning? Again, i'm not moaning. I've already said that I agree with the decision and I don't think that it actually happens in MMA. You can use such language to try make you feel your position is strong, whatever, but as i've already said multiple times, I never said much more than the way of thinking is wrong and the criteria for judging is clear.

If you don't want to admit you're wrong, just stop posting on the matter. That's fine. I don't particularly want to keep arguing myself, the matter has been settled for a couple of pages now. So all we have left is you distancing yourself from your original arguments and not admitting you're wrong.

What arguments? I keep asking you these questions but you won't answer them. What arguments? You are arguing with yourself here.

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

You literally said this in a post less than a page ago, I'll even make it bold so it's nice and clear for you:



Am I imagining you said that? Is that quote a 'presumption' that I just invented in my brain right now?

I see you edited your post and added more.

Yes, I said I can't think of an instance where i've thought "They gave him that decision because he is Champion".

leggo

I am perfectly happy to end this discussion here. It's getting sad how I can bring up quotes from stuff you said and yet you still deny having ever made any arguments in that direction. But, if you're gonna suggest taking it to PM (and no, I'm not having private chats with you, you asked for my A/S/L last time and made things massively uncomfortable for both of us), then don't keep banging on with your old argument once I'm gone like you did last time. Again, it smacks of, "I don't want to acknowledge this guy who's proving everything I'm saying wrong, but wanna keep making my point anyway."

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

I am perfectly happy to end this discussion here. It's getting sad how I can bring up quotes from stuff you said and yet you still deny having ever made any arguments in that direction.

Again, I didn't. Saying that I can't think of an instance of it happening is neither here nor there. I don't know how it could be?

But, if you're gonna suggest taking it to PM (and no, I'm not having private chats with you, you asked for my A/S/L last time and made things massively uncomfortable for both of us), then don't keep banging on with your old argument once I'm gone like you did last time. Again, it smacks of, "I don't want to acknowledge this guy who's proving everything I'm saying wrong, but wanna keep making my point anyway."

:rolleyes:

Jaysus.

I always thought you came across as reasonable enough and intelligent enough in your posts in the past.... but Jaysus!

p to the e

Here's how the there judges scored the main event:

Round 1
Henderson:
Melendez: Derek Cleary, Michael Bell, Wade Vierra

Round 2
Henderson:Michael Bell, Wade Vierra
Melendez: Derek Cleary

Round 3
Henderson: Derek Cleary, Michael Bell, Wade Vierra
Melendez:

Round 4
Henderson: Derek Cleary, Michael Bell
Melendez: Wade Vierra

Round 5
Henderson: Derek Cleary
Melendez: Michael Bell, Wade Vierra

I scored the fight exactly as Derek Cleary scored it.

Also there's a little bit of a fuss being made because one the judges (Wade Vierra) runs a Cesar Gracie affiliate school but I wouldn't read too much into it.

welkin

Knew Thomson was legit. I had him beating Gilbert in the last fight in Strike force and I had a small single on him to beat Diaz. Wonder who threw in the towel? You'd never imagine the corner would throw a towel in a Diaz fight.

Frank Mir is just hopeless. He's probably a better coach than a fighter so he should just retire now.

MrStuffins

There was actually a discussion over in another thread only last week (or the week before) about throwing in the towel. Thought it was interesting to see it happen so soon after people had been talking about it.

Shazbot

welkin wrote: »

Knew Thomson was legit. I had him beating Gilbert in the last fight in Strike force and I had a small single on him to beat Diaz. Wonder who threw in the towel? You'd never imagine the corner would throw a towel in a Diaz fight.

There's people, who were at the event, on other forums saying it was Nick.

It must be hard watching your brother take a kick like that followed by the ground and pound. Fair play to his corner for recognizing his condition and being willing to throw in the towel. It's a long time since we've seen that.

darced

This post has been deleted.

p to the e

Jesus I just remembered the proposal in the ring. My God that was cringe inducing. It could have been romantic but not whilst you have several thousand California residents booing you over a close decision. There's a chance I would have died laughing if she said no.

MrStuffins

darced wrote: »

On Cormier,yeah he was'nt as impressive as I was expecting but I seriously believe he wont be beat for a very long time.

Maybe because he won't fight Cain ;-)

Gilbert Grape

MrStuffins wrote: »

Maybe because he won't fight Cain ;-)

He fights Cain everyday,bad match up for the 2 of them

tower08

Great card and my 8 fight accumulator came through! Thank you paddy power!

p to the e

tower08 wrote: »

Great card and my 8 fight accumulator came through! Thank you paddy power!

Funny enough I won a 4 fight accumulator on this card. Had Ben Henderson, Josh Thomson, Matt Brown and Joseph Benavidez. My fight of the night pick didn't come out though.

Scar Tissue

tower08 wrote: »

Great card and my 8 fight accumulator came through! Thank you paddy power!

Pics or... You know the drill

tower08

Scar Tissue wrote: »

Pics or... You know the drill

Not bad for 25 bucks