The dole

Melion

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry my comments were aimed more at the logic of being able to earn more by not working or losing money by taking a job.

Obviously you want to work, but would you accept a job if it meant you lost money in real terms?

Absolutely.

michael999999

Melion wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else on the dole but the worst part is being at home alone all day. That's why I want to get out and work again. I worked for 11 years straight up until last October. I'm bored out of my mind at home every day apart from the days I have my daughter.

I have applied for countless jobs and internships and got no reply from the majority. I wish people wouldn't paint everyone on the dole with the same brush.

You are not the problem here, it was the pyramid scheme set up by ahern and micheal martin and co.

Developers, builders, bankers and estate agents all set up the ultimate scheme under Fianna Fail . And when the scheme came crashing down
Sure they set up NAMA and the bailout to clear any of there debts.

I know mentally it must be hard for you not having something to get up for in the morning, but the jobs are juat not around anymore. No matter how hard you try!

Its the aherns and micheal martins that should be ****in ashamed of themselves for what they have done to the workers of this country.

Do you think they feel any guilt, not a chance.

youtube!

skafish wrote: »

For what its worth, I think the whole SW system needs reform. Things are far to generous for those that just don't want to get off their arses and work. We all know the stories... in My case, I know one factory offering up to 25 jobs, but they cant get staff because they start at 7am and only pay minimum wage.

It's not just the basic of €188 per week, its all the other benifits that go with it that makes staying on the scratch so much more attractive.

A friend of mine owns a small business (less than 20 employees). At their Christmas party, one of his employees told him about a conversation he had had with his cousin (the employees) that day. Both had come to Ireland in the boom. On has been working full time since, most of the time for my friend. His cousin hasn't worked in 5 years. Both living with their partners, both with 2 kids in rented accomodation. The difference in their income is less than €50 per week, when all benifits are taken into account. So the chap that works hard for 40 hours a week is doing so for an effective wage of €50.

No wonder people don't want to work

Where?????? 3rd time you have been asked.

hfallada

I think the state pension system should be related to how much you put in not that you get x number of prsi years. Its unfair some one who works hard and pays a **** load of prsi (because the €75,000 prsi ceiling is gone) get the say pension as the person working at the deli counter.

skafish

Melion wrote: »

You say there are jobs out there, but there are also hundreds of people applying for those jobs. I apply for at least 10 jobs EVERY week and have got 1 interview since i started sending out CVs last November.

I will literally do ANYTHING at this stage.

I have a child to pay for, rent, petrol, bills, food etc. Do you think im happy to be getting €188 a week? I have less than €20 for myself a week after i pay for everything else.

12/04/2013 Letter of Credit Admin

CPL Limerick

Limerick

12/04/2013 Part Time Senior Receptionist

Fitzgeralds Woodlands House Hotel & Leisure Club

Adare, Co Limerick

12/04/2013 Absolute Bar & Grill Manager

Absolute Hotel

Limerick

12/04/2013 Food & Beverage Supervisor - Full Time Position

Limerick Strand Hotel

Limerick City

11/04/2013 Senior Bar Staff required for Award Winning Bar/Restaurant in Adare, Co. Limerick

Not disclosed

Adare, Co. Limerick

11/04/2013 Technical Officer (Limerick Based, travel required nationally)

Cluid Housing Association

Limerick Based, travel required nationally

11/04/2013 Assistant Manager Crescent Limerick

The Carphone Warehouse

Munster

10/04/2013 Accounts Assistant - Fixed Term Contract - Limerick

Limerick Strand Hotel

Limerick

10/04/2013 Part-Time/Full-Time Food & Beverage Assistants

Absolute Hotel

Limerick

10/04/2013 HR Generalist

CPL Limerick

Limerick

10/04/2013 Client Service Coordinator

CPL Limerick

Limerick

10/04/2013 Qualified Accountant Required for 7 month Maternity Cover in Limerick

Not disclosed

Limerick

10/04/2013 Hotel Receptionist - 4* Hotel - Limerick City

Limerick Strand Hotel

Limerick City Centre

10/04/2013 Pharmacist Manager (Permanent)

O'Sullivans Pharmacy Group

Limerick City

10/04/2013 Join our award winning Field Sales Team 25K basic €60K Package - Limerick

CPM - Eircom

Limerick

09/04/2013 Assistant Store Manager Limerick

Three Ireland

3Store Limerick Crescent

09/04/2013 Meetings & Events Co-Ordinator.

Limerick Strand Hotel

Limerick City.

09/04/2013 Customer Service Representative with German

COOK Medical

Limerick

09/04/2013 Assistant Manager for prestigious 4 star hotel, Dunraven Arms Hotel, Adare, Co. Limerick

Dunraven Arms Hotel

Adare

I have no idea what area(s) you are qualified in, but the above is only the first page from Job.ie for Limerick.

I realise its not easy... I spent 2 years back in the late 80s looking for a decent job. I was lucky enough(?) to be able to keep myself going with, frankly, SHYTE bits and pieces, but, as far as I am concerned,I kept my dignity.

Keep looking, and don't be shy about selling yourself.

Absolute Zero

What really gets to me is young lads in their twenties on dole. I personally know many who just wont go for jobs in places like supervalu (which may be 500m from their house) because part time positions pay slightly over or the same as 188 a week. Does nobody monitor this at all? I mean how can young men in their 20s living with parents (no taxes/ rent etc) and spending their money on pizzas and fast food and car parts in China (the money is spent outside Ireland) and even betting at horse racing can get away with this, when they are in their prime to go out and work.

Personally I had to go on dole after I dropped out of college in 2009 with jobseekers allowance of 72e a week (4 months) but the going into post office to collect money really shamed me and not contributing, but managed to find work in supermacs before moving on to another job!

I really think it should be less for guys in their 20s who can just live with parents. Its not fair they can buy fast food and live a lifestyle of ease from 188e a week. Lets face it 188 a week at 20-25 years when you live at home is a massive amount of money. Surely this is contributing to a sub generation of young people with a lazy/ no need to work mentality. It has been said that this system which punishes those working less hours with taxes etc etc compared to 188 a week for dole is the problem, and I definatly agree with it. Alot of lads now say "Ah sure why even bother working there, the wages are only marginaly better than what I get for doing absolutely nothing, just basically existing and let the state look after me" We often joke with my friends on the dole saying their brains are going to mush because they do not have anything to really live for being on the dole for years, nothing to wake up to in the morning and not even knowing what day it is as you wait for wednesday to roll around each week.

Barracuda1

I have a sugestion how about changing the welfare to instead of the weekly rate to an hourly rate. This would allow people to find some work, it may not be a full weeks work but it was the start of reducing the social welfare bill so be it. The system would consist of a credit card that would be topped up by employers on a hourly/daily basis and this would be used to offset their SW payments. Ireland had massive unemployment before and the way they got out of it was by going to work. I myself have worked one two and sometimes three jobs and even though the conditions were not great in some jobs it gave financial freedom so I could persue a better quality of live like thousands of other in this country. People should take up some employment and not think that their current employment defines them. Once you have some money in your pocket you can persue other things in life that define you.

Treehousetim

The problem is people are scared to show they have any capabilities because you will be given a bum deal by welfare if they see that. If you always sat on your ass at home and maybe say you have depression or become a single mum, you will always be seen as someone who is deserving of all things from welfare. If you are educated and don't go down the "I'm depressed put me on the sick doc" or have means, you get done when u look for assistance. So probably it's safer to keep a low profile. That discourages people from trying to move off the dole.

longhalloween

How about bringing in a community service scheme. There may be no jobs but there's plenty of work out there. Use the money collected from the household tax to fund tools and equipment and use the local unemployed as a labour force. Do 20 hours community work, such as removing graffiti, cleaning and other general maintenance, then you get your dole card signed and you can collect your money.

Since most of the unemployment black spots are in poorer, rougher estates this might serve to brighten up the area and get claimants out doing some work.

If you don't do it then you don't get any money.

Treehousetim

Probably costs more to insure these schemes and can you imagine all the "workplace accidents". It would be claim city!

Marsden

Barracuda1 wrote: »

Ireland had massive unemployment before and the way they got out of it was by going to work.

This suggests that the only reason for high unemployment in Ireland is due to people not bothering to look for jobs.

longhalloween

Treehousetim wrote: »

Probably costs more to insure these schemes and can you imagine all the "workplace accidents". It would be claim city!

Maybe, but community service schemes have been set up for young offenders in other countries, so I'm sure with some basic training most of the liability can be shifted away from the organisation.

Or make them sign a waiver.

There's so much work that can be done in this country, so much to improve out towns and cities, but there's no money to pay people to do it.
But there's a large amount of people claiming SW and not working, so it would be beneficial to everyone to get claimants out and about improving their localities.

If I'm paying someone money to purely exist, I'd be looking to get some return for my investment.

Barracuda1

Marsden wrote: »

This suggests that the only reason for high unemployment in Ireland is due to people not bothering to look for jobs.

One of the many reason for high unemployment in the past was lack of investment in this country in infrastrucure projects. Ireland was also viewed as a tax haven where the wealthly were able to put their money out of reach of the revenue. This is still the case with high profile professionals who are going to great lengths to hide assets from the taxman. There was alot of money made by wealthy indiviuals in the boom and when the house of cards fell they had it out of harms way. In time there will be indivuals like in the past will be pulled up for tax evasion.

Barracuda1

longhalloween wrote: »

Maybe, but community service schemes have been set up for young offenders in other countries, so I'm sure with some basic training most of the liability can be shifted away from the organisation.

Or make them sign a waiver.

There's so much work that can be done in this country, so much to improve out towns and cities, but there's no money to pay people to do it.
But there's a large amount of people claiming SW and not working, so it would be beneficial to everyone to get claimants out and about improving their localities.

If I'm paying someone money to purely exist, I'd be looking to get some return for my investment.

Exactly out towns cities and villages should be spic and span and let us be prowd of what we have. We shouldn't need the visit of an american president be reason to cleap up blackspots in our country. I'd be in favor of a scheme where 16 to 18 year old who couldn't find a part time job where enlisted to do some community work and work with older people to give them some insight into working life

longhalloween

Barracuda1 wrote: »

Exactly out towns cities and villages should be spic and span and let us be prowd of what we have. We shouldn't need the visit of an american president be reason to cleap up blackspots in our country. I'd be in favor of a scheme where 16 to 18 year old who couldn't find a part time job where enlisted to do some community work and work with older people to give them some insight into working life

I find with myself and most people I know that if you do something for long enough you get comfortable and can't see yourself doing something different.

My view is that it's not that people have worked and don't want to work anymore, it's just that they have NEVER worked. The responsibility of working and holding down a job is scary in comparison to keeping the status quo and coasting on the dole.

john.han

To the OP, at the height of the boom there were about 30,000 longterm unemployed, it is perhaps fair to consider these people are the ones who don't want to work. However we are now in a desperate cycle of decline. There are so many unemployed that almost every job advertised attracts hundreds of applicants, it is extemely difficult to get even an interview. The number of long-term unemployed is still growing rapidly since there has been virtually no growth in the economy, this has fed into a cycle where huge numbers of people are significantly less employable because of long-periods of unemployment. Combine this with the poorly designed jobbridge scheme which has greatly distorted the jobs market and you have a pretty disastrous situation (as highlighted recently by the IMF).

KyussBishop

Paying people to do work as others say, is actually a more efficient way of counteracting economic problems than unemployment, but because of our high public debt loads and lack of control over our own currency (an essential part of sovereignty), we can't really pursue that.

We won't be able to do that, unless the EU enacts some actual recovery policies (won't happen), or until the Euro breaks up (which, as time goes by, looks increasingly inevitable, and will cause enormous damage when it happens).

Doing that solves the entire dole problem as well, because you just move people off dole, onto the job programs, and it's way easier then, to figure out which people still on the dole actually are taking advantage.

Barracuda1

There is some excellent points been made in this thread and I'm learning from them.

halkar

Dole is good, you get pension after it

Farmer Pudsey

You can never work in this country and still have a high standard of living. You will be provided with housing, medical and extra finance for unforceseen expences. This included First Communion expense money until now. When you get old you will recieve an OAP and nursing hone cover and as you may own nothing the state will pick up all your expenses.

If you work and provide you own accomodation and medical care etc and pay taxes. When you get old the state will expect you to spend your resources to provide nursing home care and will themn take 1/3 the value of your house in the case of a couple.

The Trioka even wanted that the OAP be reduced a nd have a means tested Top-up. This would have allowed those that have no intrest in work to continue there lifestyle but that those that try to provide for themselves be punished. The same with CA provisions. I ask who is winning and who is losing.

creedp

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You can never work in this country and still have a high standard of living. You will be provided with housing, medical and extra finance for unforceseen expences. This included First Communion expense money until now. When you get old you will recieve an OAP and nursing hone cover and as you may own nothing the state will pick up all your expenses.

If you work and provide you own accomodation and medical care etc and pay taxes. When you get old the state will expect you to spend your resources to provide nursing home care and will themn take 1/3 the value of your house in the case of a couple.

The Trioka even wanted that the OAP be reduced a nd have a means tested Top-up. This would have allowed those that have no intrest in work to continue there lifestyle but that those that try to provide for themselves be punished. The same with CA provisions. I ask who is winning and who is losing.

In fairness Farmer I disagree with a lot you say so when I agree with you I'm going to acknowledge it!!

woodoo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You can never work in this country and still have a high standard of living. You will be provided with housing, medical and extra finance for unforceseen expences. This included First Communion expense money until now. When you get old you will recieve an OAP and nursing hone cover and as you may own nothing the state will pick up all your expenses.

This country is a welfare state dreamland. People can have a good standard of living from cradle to grave. Its a stable existence too. They will never be desperately poor or rich. They don't have to worry about mortgages, debt and potential job losses. Its comfort all the way.

Pretty much every part of it is ripe for cuts, including the OAPs. I hear that Joan Burton is refusing to cut the 550 million from her department next year too.

Steviemoyne

A lot of jobs out there pay less than the dole does in a week but people seem unaware that you can work and sign on to supplement your income to a reasonable amount while still earning a living.

I call it the X's and O's and I joke with my own Mother asking her "Who won this week?". Little yellow cards with days of the weeks and slots for putting in hours which you simply send back in to them and they sort out how much you should earn.

Just because a job doesn't pay as much people should still take it for the above reason plus the chance to up-skill and possibly climb higher in the chosen profession and earn enough where you don't require state aid.

Luckily enough they seem to be clamping down on it somewhat by sending out letters to long time job seekers asking them to state they are searching for work and asking them to prove their claim with a nice little "if you don't reply within 14 days it will effect your allowance" line in there too. Edit: Which said people who have no interest actively seeking work will probably lie.

Glad I'm out of the system and in college at this stage. It does tend to trap people somewhat.

KELTICKNIGHTT

while people are on the dole , why not let them get employment in these bridge schemes and internships
i know people who are on the dole , are told they can't apply for one reason or another, why not let the people on the dole so these schemes , too many rules
let them give back to system

Calgary22

i am on the dole. I am a redundant apprentice i begged sw/fas could i go on jobs-bridge to finish my time and get the hell out of this debt ridden country. of course they refused they then taught they were doing me favour by offering me a computer course which (1) has got nothing to do with my trade and (2) i have no interest in. its a ****ing disgrace what they are doing to us redundant apprentices. so i have no shame what so ever of being on the dole.

SCOOP 64

Problem with internships most end up back on the dole in 9 months and the employer after a certain amoumt of time will take on another, most of these internships can be full time jobs at mininum wage, but still a full time job for someone, but employer would rather pay €50 aweek.

skafish

creedp wrote: »

In fairness Farmer I disagree with a lot you say so when I agree with you I'm going to acknowledge it!!

Ditto

Farmer Pudsey

creedp wrote: »

In fairness Farmer I disagree with a lot you say so when I agree with you I'm going to acknowledge it!!

skafish wrote: »

Ditto

Thanks lads.

bhamsteve

I'd have to say that lifestyle dole claimants are a very small minority in Ireland at the moment.
To everybody suggesting that the employed should have to work for their dole, what do you think the CE schemes, interships, jobs-bridges etc are. They are nearly as hard to find as a paid job.
I did a FAS healthcare course last year and there were far too few places for the number of applications. That's people willing to spend 9 months wiping old dear's arses, on the same money as the dole, for the slim chance of getting a minimum wage job at the end of it.
And as for 25 jobs that can't be filled, I'm calling bull**** on that one.

skafish

Calgary22 wrote: »

i am on the dole. I am a redundant apprentice i begged sw/fas could i go on jobs-bridge to finish my time and get the hell out of this debt ridden country. of course they refused they then taught they were doing me favour by offering me a computer course which (1) has got nothing to do with my trade and (2) i have no interest in. its a ****ing disgrace what they are doing to us redundant apprentices. so i have no shame what so ever of being on the dole.

So the rest of us should pay for you to sit on your arse because you are too precious to support yourself in any job? and then have the neck to say you only want to finish your apprenticeship, at an enormous cost to the rest of us so you can take the skills we have paid for you to learn and use them elsewhere without giving anything back?

This kind of attitude makes me sick.

If you are that desperate, and have so little pride (or confidence) in youself, I'll happily contribute to your airfare to somewhere more deserving of your "talents".... North Korea, perhaps, and good fcuking riddance