Palmerstown House

ForeRight

I was up there playing the other day and noticed a couple of older men walking around the club house, car park and generally floating around the whole course the time I was there.

I was told in the club house then that the place has recently been sold with two well known brothers buying the while place and its assets for €8m.

The place is big enough to build an airport along with the course!!!!!

€8m holy lord.


Anyone hear about this?

I wonder what their plans are for the place. It was in fantastic condition and it really is potentially one of our countries great courses if it received a bit of investment to make it look nice with a few scrubs etc.

We got out for €15 on the day too. Crazy!

link_2007

According to myhome.ie its still for sale

http://www.myhome.ie/commercial/brochure/palmerstown-house-estate-johnstown-co-kildare/1801182

I might test their resolve with an offer of a swap deal for my Opel Astra.

John Divney

They were after 12m.

The sooner someone buys it the better, there isn't any proper maintenance being done, great course though.

Wichita Lineman

Probably the longest / hardest course I ever played.

ShriekingSheet

I was up there recently. Such a shame to see the driving range completely overgrown and the place so quiet. The course is being kept playable. Not bad, though obviously not great.

It'll be interesting to see what might be done with it. The location is good, and the design of the course is good. The house is an obvious plus, and the structure of car parks and practice areas are all there. Everything just needs to be brought up to code.

The only thing is, if it was restored to it's former quality, who would join? Nearby, the likes of Naas, Newlands, Castlewarden and Craddockstown obviously don't compete with the facility, but they're settled clubs, with well bonded memberships. I don't think many would jump up the road for a fancier course, assuming the extra money it would cost.

Between Druids Heath, Castleknock, Roganstwon, Luttrelstown, Moyvalley & co, I think the greater Dublin area golfers maybe be already over served with high end championship courses offering reasonable annual rates.

Could a new PH compete by having a good set up at a lower price than those? I don't think they will. Could they aim higher, and try to greatly increase the standard, and set a more premium price? But that small market is possibly covered to by Carton House. Maybe less of a focus on the golf "club", and they could aim for the wedding market to do the business, while having a core group of members also, a-la Seafield.

They'll need to play it smart. Hard to know how it will go, but it will be very interesting watching.

spacecoyote

Cost of upkeep for that amount of land must make it very difficult to compete with local clubs though.

Newlands were offered a swap plus cash deal that was turned down party due to the number of extra ground staff they would have had to hire as far as I know

John Divney

Yeah, when you see the range this eerie ghost course feeling comes over you, like you've broken into an old amusement park.

Just mow it ffs, would take half an hour!

PARlance

John Divney wrote: »

Yeah, when you see the range this eerie ghost course feeling comes over you, like you've broken into an old amusement park.

Just mow it ffs, would take half an hour!

It's driving past these lads that does it for me
You just know they're thinking....where did it all go wrong

John Divney

Haha, they're on the dole now.

FixdePitchmark

Must get out and play it before it could pack up and close the gate.

Anatom

It is still a very good course. I played it again last year and, even though it was showing signs of wear and lack of attention (bunkers were brutal and they said they didn't have the money to redo them), it was still great to play. It always feels like the longest course I've ever played - possibly due to the huge walks between greens and the next tee boxes - but I must get out there again soon.

To the point about its potential as a standalone club, its really difficult to see it working out except as a possible wedding venue/hotel with a course attached. Even then, the venue would have to be so high-end as to afford to keep the course in top condition that it mightn't be financially feasible to do so.

The last day I was there, we were caught at the 18th tee by two fellas from Dublin. We played up the last with them and they said they came down every Sunday morning to play. It cost them just €15-18 and they weren't going to be bothered joining somewhere in Dublin when they had this facility less than an hour away from home. Hard to argue with their logic really.

With Naas (literally) next door, as well as the other local courses already mentioned, and every club struggling to hang on to their memberships, I can't see how it would work on its own to be honest.

Dr_Colossus

John Divney wrote: »

Yeah, when you see the range this eerie ghost course feeling comes over you, like you've broken into an old amusement park.

Just mow it ffs, would take half an hour!

Played it last Oct in a society outing and driving range then was overgrown, at the time they advised they couldn't mow it as there wasn't sufficient drainage installed under the driving range when the course was built and due to the wet summer machines were tearing up the ground and getting stuck. It was very wet.

Playing the course again in two weeks and looking forward to it, it's one my of favorite course layouts.

charlieIRL

I have played here a few times (last time we had to leave as it started snowing!!) and liked playing there. Was worth the drive up from Athlone.

Myself and my daughter had a plan that if we won the Euro Millions it would be the first thing we would buy, even at €12m!! Golf course for me and stud farm for her!!!

dar_cool

Could it be these two?
I really hope not as the course will be the first thing gone!!!

Dr_Colossus

Anatom wrote: »

The last day I was there, we were caught at the 18th tee by two fellas from Dublin. We played up the last with them and they said they came down every Sunday morning to play. It cost them just €15-18 and they weren't going to be bothered joining somewhere in Dublin when they had this facility less than an hour away from home. Hard to argue with their logic really.

Any idea how they were getting it for that price? Teetimes are showing a Sun morning price of €35

ForeRight wrote: »

We got out for €15 on the day too. Crazy!

What day of the week was that and how did you get it for that price? That's a steal for such a quality track regardless of the condition so long as it's playable.

ForeRight

Got it on golfdublin website as a "hot deal"

Pay at the time upfront for that price. They always have great hot deals.

Dr_Colossus

ForeRight wrote: »

Got it on golfdublin website as a "hot deal"

Pay at the time upfront for that price. They always have great hot deals.

Thanks, good website that. My home course has a Ladies medal on Sun so no men's competition so was looking at possible open compeitions/green fees as an alternative. Unfortunately Palmerstown is showing as €35 which is on the high end for a bit of practice, rang the club also and they said they couldn't improve on €35 so said I'd leave it. Would have paid up to €25 and brought a mate so guess they'll miss out on €50.

ciaran1982

It's apparently very close to a sale to Galway developers the Comer brothers there was an article in the indo about it .

The course condition has improved a lot in the last few weeks and you can see there has been some investment

If they do but it hopefully they open up membership at a reasonable rate as its a cracking course. It's sad to see the clubhouse and old house closed and vacent

flugel

Noticed TeeTimes.ie had this weekend coming advertised as €40 last week, now its advertised as €35 as was last weekend. I am very tempted if the weather somehow turns out good this weekend to hit it up for that price. Played it once a few years back, excellent lay out

Ernest Oreo

IMO its just about worth 35 these days.
Call the office and offer them 30, even for weekends.
At weekdays I'd be looking for a 20/25 quid round.
Some super holes, some decent holes, some dull holes.
Bunkers and water features are pretty poor now.
Particularly the huge bunkers around 9 and 10.
Would be great to see some blokes with an interest in golf take it over.
The clubhouse has a real feel of the marie celeste to it, which is such a great shame also.
Hopefully the new owners take big Jim on and put him front of house. A real customer-centric business-man. Such warmth, such personality.

ssbob

Excellent design, excellent layout, excellent facilities, a financial no go though unless you are guaranteed 150 members who are willing to stump up €10,000 each to get it back into some sort of decent shape, sand alone on the course would prob cost in the region of €200,000 per year if not more!

The point about the wedding business is a fair one as it really is a beautiful house and setting!! Another idea would be to develop a top class restaraunt in the clubhouse, this would surely have an appeal as location is great!

The_Architect

I wouldn't consider it an excellent design and layout, partially because I think it a little contrived and partially - as above poster alluded to - because it comes with a minimum required maintenance meld that doesn't sit comfortably with making it viable.

ssbob

The_Architect wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it an excellent design and layout, partially because I think it a little contrived and partially - as above poster alluded to - because it comes with a minimum required maintenance meld that doesn't sit comfortably with making it viable.

What I mean from an aesthetic point of view and playing the course, it has a great feel about it but yes I can see the point that the maintenance required is crazy!

PARlance

The_Architect wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it an excellent design and layout, partially because I think it a little contrived and partially - as above poster alluded to - because it comes with a minimum required maintenance meld that doesn't sit comfortably with making it viable.

Just out of curiosity Architect, what kind annual maintenance figure would you be looking at for the course? Assuming it was to be pitched at the premium market.

(I'm guessing there wouldn't be much change from €1 million?)

fearruanua

I've never played it but I just had a look at this

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide.aspx

and it looks like a track I would love to play. Plenty of shots over water!!!

charlieIRL

its a fine course alright, very long though!

spacecoyote

The par 5s are all cracking holes, think they are all among the highest index holes, which is probably relatively rare for most courses, certainly for most that I've played.

Is a pity it fell into such disrepair as it was a very impressive facility

PARlance

fearruanua wrote: »

I've never played it but I just had a look at this

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide.aspx

and it looks like a track I would love to play. Plenty of shots over water!!!

I've played it a few times and I've really enjoyed it.
One thing I noticed after playing it is that the course guide creates the illusion that water is a big feature/danger on the course. It's there alright, but it's optics most of the time. And I'm one that will find water more so than most.

On the other hand, there are a few holes that I think offer more danger in terms of water and they don't look it from the guide.

On the front 9, the 2nd and 4th are the main dangers in the form a medium-long approach shot to the green that needs to carry the water.
On the back 9, I think the 14th is the only one that has an intimidating approach shot.

And again, if there's water there, I'm the man to find it.

WH BONNEY

spacecoyote wrote: »

The par 5s are all cracking holes, think they are all among the highest index holes, which is probably relatively rare for most courses, certainly for most that I've played.

Is a pity it fell into such disrepair as it was a very impressive facility

I assume you mean the lowest index holes, being the hardest.

jackal

Played it a few weeks ago. The team there are clearly trying their best to keep the place going. Its not in brilliant nick, but a bit of tlc would have it fantastic again.

Many courses call themselves championship courses, but this in my opinion lives up to that kind of claim.

It is a really long, hard course. Narrow fairways mean if you have an off day with the driver it is going to be a long day. Good bit of water and some real signature holes, with semi island greens and ribbons of fairway between water. A handful of the holes are unremarkable, but there are plenty of courses with 18 of those, and a break from the difficulty is actually quite welcome. Bunkers were inconsistent, and there are plenty of them.

Main criticism of the layout is that its a long walk in general and some of the walks between holes are long. The walk back to the clubhouse from the 18th felt like a good kilometre!

The locker rooms are huge, ornate, and empty and you can see a serious amount of cash was put into the place originally.

Would play it again, and compared to a lot of run of the mill courses around its definitely worth 30-40 quid. The rack rates are a bit OTT though as the place looks a bit tatty.

spacecoyote

WH BONNEY wrote: »

I assume you mean the lowest index holes, being the hardest.

Correct, I meant highest as in lowest

GreeBo

jackal wrote: »

Played it a few weeks ago. The team there are clearly trying their best to keep the place going. Its not in brilliant nick, but a bit of tlc would have it fantastic again.

Many courses call themselves championship courses, but this in my opinion lives up to that kind of claim.

It is a really long, hard course. Narrow fairways mean if you have an off day with the driver it is going to be a long day. Good bit of water and some real signature holes, with semi island greens and ribbons of fairway between water. A handful of the holes are unremarkable, but there are plenty of courses with 18 of those, and a break from the difficulty is actually quite welcome. Bunkers were inconsistent, and there are plenty of them.

Main criticism of the layout is that its a long walk in general and some of the walks between holes are long. The walk back to the clubhouse from the 18th felt like a good kilometre!

The locker rooms are huge, ornate, and empty and you can see a serious amount of cash was put into the place originally.

Would play it again, and compared to a lot of run of the mill courses around its definitely worth 30-40 quid. The rack rates are a bit OTT though as the place looks a bit tatty.

I havent played it but I dont like courses that are hard mainly because they are just a long slog. I dont think thats a good course design. I can make a course hard by just making all the Par 4s 450 Yards...that doesnt make it a good course imo.

allybhoy

GreeBo wrote: »

I havent played it but I dont like courses that are hard mainly because they are just a long slog. I dont think thats a good course design. I can make a course hard by just making all the Par 4s 450 Yards...that doesnt make it a good course imo.

It's not hard because its long, its just hard! As someone here has said yhere are a lot of holes were your 2nd and 3rd shots have to be really really precise otherwise its splash time, Here's a pic of the 9th which is very impressive, the pic doesn't really do it justice as you cant see the elevation involved, the bunkers near the green are built into a very steep hill and the green is perched up top, it's a real slog of a hole but very rewarding if u score well

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide/Hole-9.aspx

The 14th aswell is a biggie swell and every shot has to be accurate otherwise its in the lake

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide/Hole-14.aspx


Its a lovely course in fairness its just a pity they have ran out of money

Benny Cake

Great track, could comfortably handle an irish open....

Dr_Colossus

allybhoy wrote: »

It's not hard because its long, its just hard! As someone here has said yhere are a lot of holes were your 2nd and 3rd shots have to be really really precise otherwise its splash time, Here's a pic of the 9th which is very impressive, the pic doesn't really do it justice as you cant see the elevation involved, the bunkers near the green are built into a very steep hill and the green is perched up top, it's a real slog of a hole but very rewarding if u score well

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide/Hole-9.aspx

The 14th aswell is a biggie swell and every shot has to be accurate otherwise its in the lake

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide/Hole-14.aspx


Its a lovely course in fairness its just a pity they have ran out of money

Great holes but I think the 16th is my favourite of the par 5's with the fairway narrowing to practically nothing so opting for the correct layup distance is key. Some great strategic holes on the course and as mentioned the 2nd and 4th are tough but rewarding par 4's. Playing it next week and on a fine day there's probably no where I'd rather be.

Anatom

It is a beautifully laid-out course and very enjoyable to play. It is hard GreeBo, but if you play well it can be very rewarding. Anyway, its simply a beautiful place to walk around, even if you're not playing well... There is a good combination of holes for the bigger hitters where, as has been said you can bash it up with your drive, but you then have to really think about your approach.

My only gripe with it is the distance between greens and tees, which can make the round a lot longer than it should be. If the ground is soft they won't let you take a buggy out except on the paths (which doesn't suit someone who will almost always shoot to the other side of the fairway from where the path is!)

I know someone mentioned the cost of fixing the bunkers a few posts ago - I was told in there last summer that they needed €70,000 just to bring them up to speed. There's no way they could afford to come up with that sort of money at the moment so hopefully this rumoured sale will come through and we'll see a decent future for the place. It deserves it.

FixdePitchmark

No wonder they are in trouble with bunkers - See hole 10.

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide/Hole-10.aspx

Anatom

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No wonder they are in trouble with bunkers - See hole 10.

http://www.palmerstownhouse.com/golf/The-Course/Course-Guide/Hole-10.aspx

Yeah, that's a class hole in fairness - have managed par there a couple of times. The green is much bigger than it looks there but the sand does draw the eye alright....

I must get out there soon.

BTW - it would be a great place for a Boards outing - good location, good pricing. Its only let-down is the lack of food. We'd have to go across the road to the Johnstown Inn for that (The food there is pretty good mind you, although moving even a short distance might break up the "party" so-to-speak).

FixdePitchmark

Anatom wrote: »

Yeah, that's a class hole in fairness - have managed par there a couple of times. The green is much bigger than it looks there but the sand does draw the eye alright....

I must get out there soon.

BTW - it would be a great place for a Boards outing - good location, good pricing. Its only let-down is the lack of food. We'd have to go across the road to the Johnstown Inn for that (The food there is pretty good mind you, although moving even a short distance might break up the "party" so-to-speak).

It looks class - but there is so much value - can a course with issues be even considered. The idea of no sand in some bunkers is just a joke to me.

charlieIRL

Very tough par 3, very hard to hit the green with all the bunkers around it, they are very intimidating.
I tried to picture the hole without them and take my shot - still hit a bunker though!!

charlieIRL

Anatom wrote: »

Yeah, that's a class hole in fairness - have managed par there a couple of times. The green is much bigger than it looks there but the sand does draw the eye alright....

I must get out there soon.

BTW - it would be a great place for a Boards outing - good location, good pricing. Its only let-down is the lack of food. We'd have to go across the road to the Johnstown Inn for that (The food there is pretty good mind you, although moving even a short distance might break up the "party" so-to-speak).

we played there last year - took 5 1/2 hourse to go around it!!

ssbob

charlieIRL wrote: »

we played there last year - took 5 1/2 hourse to go around it!!

Ya was a great course to play even thoguh conditions underfoot were not that great......personally had 18pts walking into that 10th and scratched to start a run of poor holes to finish with 28 on the day.

Would love to play it in top class condition.

PARlance

Anatom wrote: »

Yeah, that's a class hole in fairness - have managed par there a couple of times. The green is much bigger than it looks there but the sand does draw the eye alright....

I must get out there soon.

BTW - it would be a great place for a Boards outing - good location, good pricing. Its only let-down is the lack of food. We'd have to go across the road to the Johnstown Inn for that (The food there is pretty good mind you, although moving even a short distance might break up the "party" so-to-speak).

There was a boards outing there last year... I was partially there.

I don't know if it's the best course for an outing, especially a boards outing with people travelling distances more so than other societies.

I think our round took 5 and a half hours, having to go somewhere else for food (even if it is close by) takes up another chunk of time that you wouldn't have to do in most courses, combine that with lads having to do a round trip to Cork and you're looking at a very very long day.

Go to a Stag the night before and it's an even longer day...

FixdePitchmark

ajcurry123 wrote: »

There was a boards outing there last year... I was partially there.

I don't know if it's the best course for an outing, especially a boards outing with people travelling distances more so than other societies.

I think our round took 5 and a half hours, having to go somewhere else for food (even if it is close by) takes up another chunk of time that you wouldn't have to do in most courses, combine that with lads having to do a round trip to Cork and you're looking at a very very long day.

Go to a Stag the night before and it's an even longer day...

Fair play turning up after a Stag

charlieIRL

Was a long day alright but that wouldn't put me off playing it again.
Had 31 points myself after a load of scratches on the day with 34 taking the win.

Myself and a few lads from here tried to play it earlier in the year and we had to quit after 9 holes cause it started snowing!!

pauldoo

Played here on Monday, was in great shape. Guy in the shop told me it was officially sold on Monday to the 2 brothers mentioned earlier, and they will be doing annual memberships for a grand

If its through i will be all over this, class course

Felexicon

pauldoo wrote: »

Played here on Monday, was in great shape. Guy in the shop told me it was officially sold on Monday to the 2 brothers mentioned earlier, and they will be doing annual memberships for a grand

If its through i will be all over this, class course

How much was the round if you don't mind me asking?

Also what kind of condition was the course in?

ciaran1982

I really hope that's the case at 1k it would be fantastic assuming the clubhouse reopenes properly

I had heard the same rumor but the Sunday Independent reported two weeks ago that the comer brothers had decided not to purchase it in a piece they did on Nama properties
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-tycoons-back-buying-property-but-only-in-the-capital-29259799.html

PVincent

If it is 1k to join the queues will be out the door. We played there two weeks ago and they were already taking names on a sheet . Fantastic course but it is a tiring walk. I don't play much golf but if I did I would be very happy to play there every week

pauldoo

Felexicon wrote: »

How much was the round if you don't mind me asking?

Also what kind of condition was the course in?

Was 35-in great condition. Played a few months ago and they had no sand in the bunkers,not the case this time. Bunkers/greens/fairways all in great shape

Anatom

Good to hear! I love playing there and I'm delighted to see the bunkers have been sorted out...

A grand a year would be great value as well, as long as the clubhouse facilities are restored. How that will work in the short-to-medium term I don't know, as it will surely take quite a while for membership to build and for the green fee revenue from visitors to take off again. The way the clubhouse was built suggests to me it will take a lot of money to maintain...