Sectarian attack in the UK

FreshTendrils

true wrote: »

I have always found the Scottish very nice people. Quite tolerant considering a million poor Irish people immigrated to Glasgow, set up their own ghettoes and football club, raised the flag of a foreign country and regularly chanted IRA songs. One of them cjoked once that at least when Pakistanis immigrate to London they do not form their own soccer club and fly the Pakistani flag and chant Al Quaida songs ! Great banter. Apart from that no Scottish person ever said anything to me and was always sound enough.

Can they really afford to complain?
There are a million of them in the northeastern portion of Ireland doing the same thing.

Before there was a Celtic,tricolor or even an IRA there was extreme hostility to Irish people.

somefeen

jim_beam wrote: »

that most people have is evidence enough that its a real phenomenon in that country , ive never experienced it from any other nationality , ive been on the other end of banter from a few nationalitys but thats wholey different and perfectly cool

Not really unique to be honest. You'll hear the same thing from English scumbags and Welsh scumbags.

BarryLyndon

Scotland has a lot of social problems; chronic under/unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented and generally people in certain parts of that country enjoy a much poorer outlook compared with the rest of the UK.

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor. Whilst I wouldn't make light of what happened to you, OP, I think you should be aware that this type of thing has it's roots in the deep-seated misery of those who gave you abuse. Spare a thought for them; all they have is Old Firm football and deep-fried Mars bars to fill the void left by hundreds of years of subjugation. At least Ireland has moved on (to a point).

FreshTendrils

summerskin wrote: »

OP should try being an Englishman wanting a pint in parts of Dublin, Limerick or Miltown Malbay. I've had trouble in all three of those just for having ordered My pint with an English accent.

That's regrettable but when it comes to England and her neighbors it works both ways.
However,there is a great hostility between the Irish and the Scots but the Irish are completely oblivious to it.

jim_beam

somefeen wrote: »

Not really unique to be honest. You'll hear the same thing from English scumbags and Welsh scumbags.

not close to the same level , anti catholicsm has been an acknowledged issue in scotland for over a century and continues to be a topic of discussion , the same cannot be said about england and wales , sectarianism in scotland exists at all levels

are you aware that the vast majority of catholics in scotland are opposed to scottish independance , why ? , because they know that in an independant scotland , they would be a lot more vulnerable to prejudice without london to protect their rights

Duckworth_Luas

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor.

I always found that an odd quote as Scotland wasn't colonised by the English.

true

FreshTendrils wrote: »

There are a million of them in the northeastern portion of Ireland doing the same thing..

They are (as they see it ) loyal to the government democratically elected where they live, and the same government which gives them services, dole, etc and to which they pay their (direct and indirect) taxes. Big difference.

FreshTendrils wrote: »

Before there was a Celtic,tricolor or even an IRA there was extreme hostility to Irish people.

I do not know about"extreme hostility" - if that was the case why would a million choose to go there?

Respect is earned.

Pug160

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Scotland has a lot of social problems; chronic under/unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented and generally people in certain parts of that country enjoy a much poorer outlook compared with the rest of the UK.

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor. Whilst I wouldn't make light of what happened to you, OP, I think you should be aware that this type of thing has it's roots in the deep-seated misery of those who gave you abuse. Spare a thought for them; all they have is Old Firm football and deep-fried Mars bars to fill the void left by hundreds of years of subjugation. At least Ireland has moved on (to a point).

Scotland in general does have a certain bleakness about it. Still a nice country overall though, and Edinburgh definitely looks to be worth a visit.

somefeen

jim_beam wrote: »

not close to the same level , anti catholicsm has been an acknowledged issue in scotland for over a century and continues to be a topic of discussion , the same cannot be said about england and wales , sectarianism in scotland exists at all levels

are you aware that the vast majority of catholics in scotland are opposed to scottish independance , why ? , because they know that in an independant scotland , they would be a lot more vulnerable to prejudice without london to protect their rights

You are correct. It is a bigger issue in Scotland than anywhere else I can think of. You'll only hear if from scumbags in other countries, but in Scotland its from people who should know better.

jim_beam

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Scotland has a lot of social problems; chronic under/unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented and generally people in certain parts of that country enjoy a much poorer outlook compared with the rest of the UK.

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor. Whilst I wouldn't make light of what happened to you, OP, I think you should be aware that this type of thing has it's roots in the deep-seated misery of those who gave you abuse. Spare a thought for them; all they have is Old Firm football and deep-fried Mars bars to fill the void left by hundreds of years of subjugation. At least Ireland has moved on (to a point).

oh FFS , scotland might be poor ( er ) than west london or england in general but its still in western europe and still richer than the vast majority of countries in the world , scots have a pessimistic and dour mindset , if they were living in sunny beverly hills , they would be the same , just like they are in the scotland of the south pacific , new zealand , why do you think kiwis so dour compared to aussies , their mostly of scottish ancestry

indough

dd972 wrote: »

Some Scots dislike of the English is like some of the English's dislike of the French, one side's preoccupied with it and the other couldn't care less.

you are kidding right? french people tend not to like the english, to put it mildly

jim_beam

FreshTendrils wrote: »

That's regrettable but when it comes to England and her neighbors it works both ways.
However,there is a great hostility between the Irish and the Scots but the Irish are completely oblivious to it.

when the scots refer to their ties with ireland , they ( most of them ) are talking about the unionist population in northern ireland , because they refer to them as irish , people down here assume they mean us aswell

Mr_Spaceman

I see a few have moved on to give history lectures on so-called anti-Irish 'racism' (since when was Irish a race anyway?) and stereotyping an entire country based on the actions of a couple of anti-social clowns. The kind of morons which populate every major town and city in the UK and Ireland.

I lived in Glasgow for nearly 20 years and never had any issues with Irishness. Many people have Irish ancestry, both Roman Catholic and Protestant and I believe sectarianism there is blown vastly out of proportion because it suits a lot of talking heads in public office to drone on about religion rather than tackling harder issues such as drugs and a high level of crime.

Yes, if you go around acting like a twat and giving vocal support for the IRA (which does, sadly, exist with certain groups) then you're going to get called out. I've no problem with that.

Imagine if a foreigner posted here about all the people of Ireland being scum because of a bad incident with a couple of knackers. This place would go nuts.

somefeen

true wrote: »

They are (as they see it ) loyal to the government democratically elected where they live, and the same government which gives them services, dole, etc and to which they pay their (direct and indirect) taxes. Big difference.

And when they first arrived?
Don't think you've gotten the point. Your saying Irish people turned up in Scotland and segregated themselves off.
We're saying Scottish people turned in Ireland and did the same.
tit for tat. Its not relevant.

true wrote: »

I do not know about"extreme hostility" - if that was the case why would a million choose to go there?

How about starvation? Sounds like a good enough reason to enter the meat grinder to me.

true wrote: »

Respect is earned.

Pffft.
In almost every other country where Irish people turned up in droves, they earned respect, and in my experience the majority in Scotland respect the fact that Irish people worked their holes off.

BarryLyndon

jim_beam wrote: »

oh FFS , scotland might be poor ( er ) than west london or england in general but its still in western europe and still richer than the vast majority of countries in the world , scots have a pessimistic and dour mindset , if they were living in sunny beverly hills , they would be the same , just like they are in the scotland of the south pacific , new zealand , why do you think kiwis so dour compared to aussies , their mostly of scottish ancestry

Ok, it must be that dour Pictish DNA, I suppose!

But seriously, NZ probably has a lot in common in the sense of being overshadowed by a bustling neighbour and the relative geographical isolation. I suspect the Irish may have suffered a similar stereotype rather than the prevailing one which has arguably been arrived at through the prism of the American story

FreshTendrils

true wrote: »

They are (as they see it ) loyal to the government democratically elected where they live, and the same government which gives them services, dole, etc and to which they pay their (direct and indirect) taxes. Big difference.

Let's keep it in the context of the original comment i was replying to.They are mostly made up of immigrant stock from Scotland (escaping potato famine) and with the exclusion of one blip in Irish history,they have expended a lot of energy avoiding any sort of integration.
The hypocritical Scots almost universally support the bad behaviour of Loyalists.

true wrote: »

Respect is earned.

Look at the history and look at the stance of the Church of Scotland and stop wasting my time.

FoxyVixen

Soooooo, did the OP report it or did they spend the day hanging onto the toilet bowl?

Smoggy

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Soooooo, did the OP report it or did they spend the day hanging onto the toilet bowl?

It's a make your own ending thread.

I think he did fook all.
Maybe sat on the sofa with a hangover and watched Sunday Brunch, Followed by Four in a bed repeats.

Mr_Spaceman

BarryLyndon wrote: »

Scotland has a lot of social problems; chronic under/unemployment, drug and alcohol abuse has been well documented and generally people in certain parts of that country enjoy a much poorer outlook compared with the rest of the UK.

Renton in Trainspotting summed it up pretty well on the humiliation of being colonised by an outside transgressor. Whilst I wouldn't make light of what happened to you, OP, I think you should be aware that this type of thing has it's roots in the deep-seated misery of those who gave you abuse. Spare a thought for them; all they have is Old Firm football and deep-fried Mars bars to fill the void left by hundreds of years of subjugation. At least Ireland has moved on (to a point).

I take it you haven't been to Tower Hamlets, Bradford, parts of Merseyside or Hull then? All as bad, if not worse than deprived areas of Scotland's major cities.

I don't know why I'm bothering to take you seriously when you quote some fictional character from a movie. His drug-addled brain got it mixed up anyway as Scotland has never been colonised, it was a willing partner in the Act of Union.

"Spare a thought for them". Well, that's big of you. A sweeping, utterly stupid generalization.

Old Firm football? And there was me thinking the attack happened in Edinburgh. And not all Scots support the two big Glasgow clubs.

Deep fried Mars bars? I've never even seen one. Another media line which has snowballed into mythical proportions.

Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if you've never actually been to Scotland, travelled around the country and met the many people who feel a kinship with the Irish on the whole.

Carry on reading Irvine Welsh's latest trash and gie's peace. I'm actually embarassed for you.

FreshTendrils

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

I see a few have moved on to give history lectures on so-called anti-Irish 'racism' (since when was Irish a race anyway?) and stereotyping an entire country based on the actions of a couple of anti-social clowns.

Rubbish.It runs far deeper than you are trying to portray.

"Already there is a bitter feeling among the Scottish working classes against the Irish intruders. As the latter increase and the Scottish people realise the seriousness of the menace to their own racial supremacy in their native land, this bitterness will develop into a race antagonism which will have disastrous consequences for Scotland" - The Church of Scotland,1923

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Yes, if you go around acting like a twat and giving vocal support for the IRA (which does, sadly, exist with certain groups) then you're going to get called out. I've no problem with that.

Absolutely,but in the case of the OP,my own personal experience and stories i've heard from friends it had nothing to do with the IRA.
Sadly words like "Fenian" have a very broad definition.

woodoo

true wrote: »

I have always found the Scottish very nice people. Quite tolerant considering a million poor Irish people immigrated to Glasgow, .

Are you sure of those figures, that seems an awful lot for a city of 1 million in total

Norwesterner

I doubt he reported it given the less than supportive response here.
The thug will go on with his behaviour, and some other Irish chap will meet him some night.
Until he finally meets one who will floor him.

Imagine if a jew came here with the same story and was told, "Why didn't you walk away?..Why did you defend yourself verbally? There must be more to it....Why did you provoke them?...We'll our ancestors stole their jobs and started a football team, so put yourself in the Scots' shoes."

Mr_Spaceman

FreshTendrils wrote: »

Rubbish.It runs far deeper than you are trying to portray.

"Already there is a bitter feeling among the Scottish working classes against the Irish intruders. As the latter increase and the Scottish people realise the seriousness of the menace to their own racial supremacy in their native land, this bitterness will develop into a race antagonism which will have disastrous consequences for Scotland" - The Church of Scotland,1923


Absolutely,but in the case of the OP,my own personal experience and stories i've heard from friends it had nothing to do with the IRA.
Sadly words like "Fenian" have a very broad definition.

I know all about that Church of Scotland statement. But it has little relevance now. The vast majority of Catholic Irish descent have integrated and settled into all walks of life.

Unfortunately when you have groups actively canvassing support for the Real IRA in Glasgow and other areas at the moment then you're going to have the old terminology getting bandied about.

You can't expect law-abiding people not to be outraged when apologists for terror take to the streets.

BarryLyndon

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

I take it you haven't been to Tower Hamlets, Bradford, parts of Merseyside or Hull then? All as bad, if not worse than deprived areas of Scotland's major cities.

I don't know why I'm bothering to take you seriously when you quote some fictional character from a movie. His drug-addled brain got it mixed up anyway as Scotland has never been colonised, it was a willing partner in the Act of Union.

"Spare a thought for them". Well, that's big of you. A sweeping, utterly stupid generalization.

Old Firm football? And there was me thinking the attack happened in Edinburgh. And not all Scots support the two big Glasgow clubs.

Deep fried Mars bars? I've never even seen one. Another media line which has snowballed into mythical proportions.

Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if you've never actually been to Scotland, travelled around the country and met the many people who feel a kinship with the Irish on the whole.

Carry on reading Irvine Welsh's latest trash and gie's peace. I'm actually embarassed for you.

Of course the vast majority of people of Scotland are not the problem. I've yet to meet a Scot I haven't thought highly of, to be honest with you.

However, you must be aware that the genuine and well acknowledged history of sectarianism in that country isn't media spin or mis-attributed fiction. It's very real and I don't think we need to reflect on that, so much as the underlying problems that see these symptoms of despair come about. Poverty, national humiliation and decades of social decay are in play here. Maybe I am being too inductive here...


Of course it happens elsewhere in the UK and Ireland. But in this instance, the OP would do well to try and understand the psyche of the folks who decided to ruin his night rather than feeling bad or guilty about it. I apologise about the Mars bars; remiss of me

true

FoxyVixen wrote: »

Soooooo, did the OP report it or did they spend the day hanging onto the toilet bowl?

Smoggy wrote: »

I think he did fook all.
Maybe sat on the sofa with a hangover and watched Sunday Brunch, Followed by Four in a bed repeats.

I'd say he cried in to his "sniper at work" t-shirt all day, with a sore head, and felt a bit foolish for being smart to / arguing with a few locals.

Norwesterner

true wrote: »

I'd say he cried in to his "sniper at work" t-shirt all day, with a sore head, and felt a bit foolish for being smart to / arguing with a few locals.

Finally the mask slips.
Ah yes, he was probably an IRA supporter in a Celtic top and had it coming. Obviously drunk and antagonising locals as well. Maybe a pig under his arm to boot.
At least you're open with your "blame the victim" stance.
Others hint at it.
Like asking a rape victim if she was wearing a mini-skirt.

woodoo

Norwesterner wrote: »

Imagine if a jew came here with the same story and was told, "Why didn't you walk away?..Why did you defend yourself verbally? There must be more to it....Why did you provoke them?...We'll our ancestors stole their jobs and started a football team, so put yourself in the Scots' shoes."

Thats true, its mainly because the sheeple have been well versed on the appropriate response if a jew was at the end of the abuse or a black man. Being anti irish hasn't been added to the universal PC manifesto yet even though it is as bad as being racist or anti semitic.

crockholm

Or just don't visit that caledonian congo

Mr_Spaceman

crockholm wrote: »

Or just don't visit that caledonian congo

I laughed a wee bit there. "Caledonian Congo" :pac:

Has the OP contacted the police I wonder?

The King of Moo

Where has all of this anti-Scottish hatred come from all of a sudden? Has it always existed under the surface, waiting for an incident like this to bring it forth? Or do some people just want to get into a big argument on a boring Sunday and get to wave their "I'm an angry young man so I'll say really racist nonsense!" flag?