saudi man sentenced to paralysis

IK09

pickarooney wrote: »

Nobody would blink an eye if he were hanged for the crime, I reckon. Somehow a lesser punishment is worse.

very true...but the main issue here i think is that this happened when he was 14. Now im not up to date with saudi foreign affairs but id say they wouldnt hang a 14 year old

Ranicand

IK09 wrote: »

Initial thought. 10 years in prison for a 14 y.o is enough for me

The victim is still paralyzed

How can 10 or 15 years locked up be enough for something that lasts a lifetime?

I think people calling another culture barbaric are missing the point.

This will make people in that country THINK before they commit such a crime.

One criminal suffers but the fear this will instill may save many potential victims.

Myself personally I would not vote for such a penalty but neither will I lose any sleep about it.

Our system is hundred times worse attacks and murders all over the place because the punishment is a joke.

coffee_cake

Ranicand wrote: »

This will make people in that country THINK before they commit such a crime.

I doubt thinking was at the top of the list on "things happening when stabbing my friend"

Ranicand

bluewolf wrote: »

I doubt thinking was at the top of the list on "things happening when stabbing my friend"

Rage fury and failing to think has lasting impact sometimes permanent.

How many fights have happened in this country in which people end up on the ground with their head kicked in?

Failure to THINK has ruined his friends life sharing the misery seems just to me.

HHobo

bluewolf wrote: »

I doubt thinking was at the top of the list on "things happening when stabbing my friend"

Could have been premeditated.

Holsten

Ranicand wrote: »

The victim is still paralyzed

How can 10 or 15 years locked up be enough for something that lasts a lifetime?

I think people calling another culture barbaric are missing the point.

This will make people in that country THINK before they commit such a crime.

One criminal suffers but the fear this will instill may save many potential victims.

Myself personally I would not vote for such a penalty but neither will I lose any sleep about it.

Our system is hundred times worse attacks and murders all over the place because the punishment is a joke.

Having a greater punishment doesn't stop people committing crimes... why do people find this idea so hard to grasp?

Zaph

HHobo wrote: »

Yes, I sure he had much happier outcomes in mind when he stabbed his friend in the back. Are you seriously representing the position that a bad unforseen outcome from stabbing someone is a good reason for leniency? Perhaps you feel that death is preferable to paralysis? Most people who stab others have this end in mind. Is stabbing someone to death less "sick" than intentionally causing paralysis?

Not in the slightest. However you stated that he "willfully carried out such sadism himself". Unless he stabbed the other guy in a particularly slow, lingering and cruel manner to ensure paralysis, there's no particular sadism involved. And it's entirely feasible that he actually intended to kill the guy, but again there's no evidence of sadism. However deliberately paralysing someone who has already spent 10 years in prison for a crime (and I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve more) is sadistic no matter how you look at it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

IK09 wrote: »

Im always in favour of retribution, always, but this isnt exactly retribution is it? Does the punishment fit the crime? Was the boy that committed the crime punished?

I would say that 10 years in prison for a scumbag stabbing someone in the back is a little light, maybe 15 would be fairer.

But a 14 y.o stabbing someone in the back...different story...my head is going into melt down trying to figure out some form of retribution.

Initial thought. 10 years in prison for a 14 y.o is enough for me

Which is probably something only a bit stronger than what he would get here.

The initial sentence, though, was apparently a 250K riyal fine. Now why he's in jail and how he's supposed ro pay it when he's in jail is anyone's guess.

Zaph

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The initial sentence, though, was apparently a 250K riyal fine. Now why he's in jail and how he's supposed ro pay it when he's in jail is anyone's guess.

The criminal's family is usually expected to pay if the person can't.

Ranicand

Holsten wrote: »

Having a greater punishment doesn't stop people committing crimes... why do people find this idea so hard to grasp?

It would be interesting to compare the crime rate in Saudi Arabia to here.

HHobo

Zaph wrote: »

Not in the slightest. However you stated that he "willfully carried out such sadism himself". Unless he stabbed the other guy in a particularly slow, lingering and cruel manner to ensure paralysis, there's no particular sadism involved. And it's entirely feasible that he actually intended to kill the guy, but again there's no evidence of sadism. However deliberately paralysing someone who has already spent 10 years in prison for a crime (and I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve more) is sadistic no matter how you look at it.

I was operating from the point of view that stabbing somone in the back was sadistic. All manner of terrible outcomes are highly likely. He obviously intended an extremely negative outcome for his friend. The result in this instance was paralysis (hardly a shockingly odd outcome from stabbing someone in the back). That he should have to suffer the same as his victim is just in my opinion. The main difference is that his own choices and actions are what led to his paralysis. I would agree, however, that doing this after he has already spent 10 years in prison is not just.

readytosnap

cripple the cu nt i say.

Ranicand

Zaph wrote: »

Not in the slightest. However you stated that he "willfully carried out such sadism himself". Unless he stabbed the other guy in a particularly slow, lingering and cruel manner to ensure paralysis, there's no particular sadism involved. And it's entirely feasible that he actually intended to kill the guy, but again there's no evidence of sadism. However deliberately paralysing someone who has already spent 10 years in prison for a crime (and I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve more) is sadistic no matter how you look at it.

Perhaps a sadistic crime deserves a sadistic punishment.

Getting into a debate on what he intended or if he even gave it any though is pointless the result is the same.

I am far from saying I would be in favor of this system but why get our knickers in a knot for a CRIMINAL in another country?

HHobo

Holsten wrote: »

Having a greater punishment doesn't stop people committing crimes... why do people find this idea so hard to grasp?

I personally don't see anything wrong with a little retribution. I'm sure it is terribly uncivilised of me, but there it is!

coffee_cake

Ranicand wrote: »

It would be interesting to compare the crime rate in Saudi Arabia to here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20959228
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18503550
Great craic over there altogether

Ranicand

HHobo wrote: »

I personally don't see anything wrong with a little retribution. I'm sure it is terribly uncivilised of me, but there it is!

What is uncivilized is a country that allows people to be homeless on the streets but grants criminals free legal aid.

A country that spends more on food for prisoners then it does on hospital patients.

I am with you.

suicide_circus

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh come on!

Every ****ing time there's a scumbag thread on here, people are suggesting all sorts of eye-for-an-eye biblical ****. Now an Islamic country does it and they're portrayed as backward and barbaric...??!

Mostly people call for reasonable sentencing which fit the crime, not revenge mutilation or torture.

Ranicand

Ranicand wrote: »

It would be interesting to compare the crime rate in Saudi Arabia to here.

There are many things that aren't considered crimes in Saudi that would be considered criminal here.

De facto slavery, although officially abolished in the 60's, still exists in Saudi, and many abuses that would be prosecuted here are culturally acceptable there.

There is little to be gained from comparing crime rates unless there is a consensus on what constitutes a crime.

On the subject of the OP, this is obviously where a two wrongs do make a right point of view ends. Except in this case the punishment isn't fitting the crime. The guilty party has already spent ten years in a Saudi prison, living under the threat of this possiblity, which anyone would consider tortous to say the least. To describe this as cruel and unusual is an understatement. As Madam X said it's sadistic, and State sponsored sadism is never going to be justice.

Wattle

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh come on!

Every ****ing time there's a scumbag thread on here, people are suggesting all sorts of eye-for-an-eye biblical ****. Now an Islamic country does it and they're portrayed as backward and barbaric...??!

Yes but the suggestions here are just people venting. They are never going to be carried out whereas in Saudi there's a chance that they will.

Ranicand

bluewolf wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20959228
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18503550
Great craic over there altogether

Ok your first link there was a baby killer boo hoo.

Now as regards the pair in the other link it is a hardcore Islamic country and the crime they are guilty of is stupidity.

Our own country is a mess their is starvation in the world and we support one of the most oppressive barbaric countries in the middle east.

And let us not forget China.

Now I won't let my post pull the thread of topic.

We are worrying about the rights of somebody that stabbed their friend and left them unable to walk?

derfderf

Ranicand wrote: »

Ok you first link there was a baby killer boo hoo.

That's what you took from that story?
She was 17 at the time and confessed without the help of a lawyer, or even a translator.

Ranicand

derfderf wrote: »

That's what you took from that story?
She was 17 at the time and confessed without the help of a lawyer, or even a translator.

It's a message board and to be honest I did not read the entire story.

Yes I suppose that makes things a lot different.

Or TDs vote for bills without reading them.

minidazzler

Deleted User wrote: »

Well isnt prison supposed to be torture also ? My only problem with this is if it were in Ireland the cost involved in looking after him . You also have to take into account he was 14 when he did it.

No, prisons are ostensibly supposed to reform, not torture or even punish. But that just isn't how it's done.

Madam_X

pickarooney wrote: »

Nobody would blink an eye if he were hanged for the crime, I reckon.

If a 24-year-old was sentenced to hanging for carrying out a stabbing ten years ago (instead of just being kept in prison) people wouldnt blink an eye?

Ranicand wrote: »

Our system is hundred times worse

No it isnt. And I'm sure you'd prefer living in a country like Ireland rather than a regime as cruel as that of Saudi Arabia.

Ranicand

Madam_X wrote: »

If a 24-year-old was sentenced to hanging for carrying out a stabbing ten years ago (instead of just being kept in prison) people wouldnt blink an eye? Seriously?

No it isnt. I'm sure you'd prefer living in a country like Ireland rather than a regime as cruel as that of Saudi Arabia.

What I am saying is out criminal Justice system is a hundred times worse as it is geared in favor of the criminals.

As regards the rest of the carry on over there I would be hauled in for insulting Islam in the first few days so I would not have to live there for long.:D

What gets an me Madam X is worrying over criminals.

There are a lot of people way more deserving of our attention?

Ranicand

Ranicand wrote: »

There are a lot of people way more deserving of our attention?

True, but criminal behaviour will continue until the conditions that lead to it are addressed, but any attempt to even talk about what those are or how that might happen is treated with utter contempt and a dismissal of the subject as PC gone mad.

You can't have a crime free society without addressing the causes of crime.

ScumLord

Ranicand wrote: »

What I am saying is out criminal Justice system is a hundred times worse as it is geared in favor of the criminals.

It doesn't as such favour the criminals it just enshrines a persons rights in the process. Here you are innocent until proven guilty and even when you're convicted you still have your human rights.

It is a much more civilised way of doing things even if it is slower and means there is no mob justice.

I would never set foot in a country like Saudi Arabia, it's a barbaric backwater that we can learn absolutely nothing from. We tried everything they are doing now and stopped doing it hundreds of years ago because it's a fact that it does nothing to prevent crime.

Ranicand

Candie wrote: »

You can't have a crime free society without addressing the causes of crime.

I say was is on my mind I do not try to insult or upset people.

I have no hidden motive.

Bearing that in mind I really think the above statement is one of the most empty and lazy platitudes ever to be used.

The cause of crime is people committing crime.

The reason this line is treated with utter contempt is because it is seen as two fingers up at the victim.

Once somebody has committed a serious crime the time for namby pamby talk like that is gone.

If you want to tackle the causes of crime then one would presume you would start with people before they commit a crime?

Dealing with the causes of crime what does that even mean I am serious.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

suicide_circus wrote: »

Mostly people call for reasonable sentencing which fit the crime, not revenge mutilation or torture.

Find any paedophile thread and I guarantee you people are calling for castration.

ScumLord

Ranicand wrote: »

Bearing that in mind I really think the above statement is one of the most empty and lazy platitudes ever to be used.

The cause of crime is people committing crime.

That's a very naive way of looking at it. The causes of crime are many and poverty is a huge contributing factor.

If you ended up destitute on the street you'd turn to crime pretty quickly. No person is going to starve to death just because there's a line in a book that says they should die before they steel.