Les Kiss, realistic long term successor to Kidney?

jm08

No

thomond2006 wrote: »

.

Who cares about the "honour"? Seriously does it really matter? As long as the coach is a success for the duration of his contract, I couldn't give a **** about his motivations. His main motivation could be to use his fame/success to pick up loads of women, I really couldn't care less. As long as the coach acts in the best interests of the team, then you cannot ask any more. I don't care if the coach thinks he's "better" than being in the position as long as he does his best. Any decent coach will care about his work, no matter where it is anyway.

Club & International coaching are completely different. Limited time with the players, and not being able to bring in any player you want makes it very, very difficult. Would Michael Bent or Stephen Archer make the Clermont squad? Would Mike Ross?

You've completely missed the point I was making. I was only refering to when he was appointed. Being Irish or otherwise has nothing to do with if you resign or not.

Many pundits have made the point that its easy for Trap because he flies out of Ireland and he or his family don't have to hear all the moaning and groaning about Ireland's lack of success.

Every head coach candidate has their positives and negatives. This is one negative you can throw at Cotter but there are positives. The guy is massively respected for his achievements and that is probably half the job, the players would need to feel confident that the new coach has the CV to prove that he knows what he's about. He coaches a team (yes they are very talented) a brilliant style of rugby.

Kidney has achieved more with a less expensively compiled squad than Cotter has over the years at club level. Munster, coached by Kidney knocked Cotter out of the Heineken Cup once and McGahan did it another time.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

Club & International coaching are completely different. Limited time with the players, and not being able to bring in any player you want makes it very, very difficult. Would Michael Bent or Stephen Archer make the Clermont squad? Would Mike Ross?

That sort of thinking eliminates a lot of candidates then. I don't really agree but it's valid. I wouldn't have Cotter as my number one but I think he is a valid candidate. To be head coach of such a big club with a lot of pressure means you have to be at least half decent! Yes you can buy a squad but you have to then achieve success!

Who is your ideal candidate? Of the candidates that are the bookies' favourites: Cotter, Schmidt, COS, McKenzie, Kiss, J White

jm08

No

thomond2006 wrote: »

That sort of thinking eliminates a lot of candidates then. I don't really agree but it's valid.

Who is your ideal candidate?

I don't have an ideal. I think it will be Kiss because no one else will want the job. I think we're in for a few lean years.

athtrasna

Am hoping that it's someone new to these shores. Nobody can be truly unbiased with reference to their past no matter how hard they try. Under Deccie there were players played way past their prime and one of the reasons thrown around was their province. And as a Munster fan, I can still admit that some squads had a disproportionate number of Munster players relative to the performance of the provinces in the Heineken Cup. While there may be no shred of truth in the accusations, there will always be doubt when a coach has strong ties to a province. New blood please. Every player to be selected on merit rather than sentiment.

tolosenc

GT wants Kiss so that there is continuity.

LOL. Continuity is the last thing we need.

Reading him weep into his Corn Flakes has been a good start to my day!

irishbucsfan

No

I honestly think 75% of the people who voted Yes didn't read the question correctly. That includes me

totallegend

tolosenc wrote: »

GT wants Kiss so that there is continuity.

LOL. Continuity is the last thing we need.

Reading him weep into his Corn Flakes has been a good start to my day!

And a sly dig in at Kidney too!
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/the-contenders-who-is-likely-to-replace-kidney-1.1346859

<Kiss> gets most of the credit for evolving Ireland's archaic gameplan since the 2011 World Cup, unshackled by Kidney when switched from defence to attack coach

decisions

No

Who is the bookies favourite?

ssaye

decisions wrote: »

Who is the bookies favourite?

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/the-contenders-who-is-likely-to-replace-kidney-1.1346859

and from PP

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/rugby-union/rugby-specials?ev_oc_grp_ids=1192515


McKenzie 4/7
Ruddock 4/1
Schmidt 13/2
Kiss 10/1
OShea 12/1
etc

trouttrout

Must have been money for Ruddock last night because he was 10/1 yesterday. McKenzie and Kiss drifting

irishbucsfan

No

Yeah Kiss is drifting majorly. Must be a reason for that?

Personally I am not 100% against Kiss in the role. I would much prefer a completely new coaching team, but if it came down to Kiss I'd like to see what he could do before I completely wrote him off.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

I don't have an ideal.

There's none of the available coaches you'd like to coach Ireland?

CIARAN_BOYLE

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Moore could be on his way up the ranks in Leinster next year and if he lives up to the hype then I'd be starting him with Ross to come on at 60. What about that 3 who was playing for Ulster at the weekend is he IQ, he did a fairly good job against Healy?

Asking Moore to get ahead of Ross and Bent in the next year or so is a big ask hopefully he can come through.

Lutton (IQ 3 making his first Ulster start at the weekend) looked good but he was committing a number of fouls at scrum time that another referee would have punished. I would have to see more of him before I wagered on him.

Hopefully someone comes through at tight head, but the current situation would scare away a number of candidates.

jm08

No

.ak wrote: »

There's none of the available coaches you'd like to coach Ireland?

Who is available? (I see where Conor O'Shea & Mark McCall have ruled themselves out via Michael Corcoran on twitter).

Conor O'Shea tells Standard Sport he's "absolutely not" going to replace Declan Kidney and Sarries send same message about Mark McCall

edit: I don't rate Ruddock. He lasted less than 18 months with Wales because he felt he wasn't getting enough credit for winning a grand slam.

.ak

McKenzie, White, Schmidt, Kiss?

Also, ignore what O'Shea and McCall are saying, they're not going to confirm anything, although I personally think they're not in the race either. Add those names to the list above, who would you like?

For Paws

Ruddock would be my choice. Experience at International level is key and his time with Leinster, (and of course Bective !!) gives him an stronger grounding in Irish rugby. Since he is part of the existing set up and his time with the U-20's would have given him a very complete view of the younger talent. By all means keep LK as Defense coach, he is a proven talent at this aspect (although he may feel 'passed over' if he's not offered the senior role and would decline to stay on).
Even at that, Ruddock (or whoever) will probably have their own suggestions.

The difference between coaching at Provincial & International level was made clear during DK's reign. A flying start on the back of Provincial success could not be maintained. My concern with McKenzie would be that we'd repeat the error.

twinytwo

if kiss gets the job im done with international rugby

.ak

TBH I'd hate to see Ruddock involved... He hasn't exactly had the U20s playing great rugby. We'd need a world class attacks coach to join him if he wanted to step up to this level.

For Paws

twinytwo wrote: »

if kiss gets the job im done with international rugby

Don't you mean that you 'would not be available for selection' ?

twinytwo

.ak wrote: »

McKenzie, White, Schmidt, Kiss?

Also, ignore what O'Shea and McCall are saying, they're not going to confirm anything, although I personally think they're not in the race either. Add those names to the list above, who would you like?

Id love O'shea but I cant see the IRFU

A) Offering him enough to leave Quinns

Letting him do stuff the way he wants

jm08

No

.ak wrote: »

McKenzie, White, Schmidt, Kiss?

Also, ignore what O'Shea and McCall are saying, they're not going to confirm anything, although I personally think they're not in the race either. Add those names to the list above, who would you like?

White. Only proven international coach. Schmidt hasn't even played international rugby or assisted on an international team so it would be a big challenge for him.

trouttrout

jm08 wrote: »

White. Only proven international coach. Schmidt hasn't even played international rugby or assisted on an international team so it would be a big challenge for him.

You must have been against the initial appointment of Kidney so?

the baby bull elephant

tolosenc wrote: »

GT wants Kiss so that there is continuity.

LOL. Continuity is the last thing we need.

Reading him weep into his Corn Flakes has been a good start to my day!

You mean the article where GT says his preference is Schmidt?

jm08

No

trouttrout wrote: »

You must have been against the initial appointment of Kidney so?

No. (Kidney was EOS Assistant for 3 years and I think may have coached Ireland A to a 6Ns championship in the early 00s).

For Paws

.ak wrote: »

TBH I'd hate to see Ruddock involved... He hasn't exactly had the U20s playing great rugby. We'd need a world class attacks coach to join him if he wanted to step up to this level.

To go along with our world class squad perhaps.

Ah yes, that would be grand.

Pause

Now, can we get back to reality ?

leftleg

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There are good and sensible posters that seem to have voted for Les Kiss to be the successor to Kidney.

Yes
achtungbarry, ArmaniJeanss, bilston, Brian_Zeluz, CKonetheonlyone, darragh_haven, decisions, delta_bravo, Dravokivich, Dunder Mifflin, gcgirl, Grandpa Hassan, irishbucsfan, Jarren, jm08, LeinsterDub, Lelantos, lemansky, Midlife Crashes, MikeCork2009, Millem, molloyjh, MonsterMob, Parawhore.xD, postitnote, RandolphEsq, Redsock, RoutineBites, sydthebeat, willit, Zyzz

trouttrout

leftleg wrote: »

Yes
achtungbarry, ArmaniJeanss, bilston, Brian_Zeluz, CKonetheonlyone, darragh_haven, decisions, delta_bravo, Dravokivich, Dunder Mifflin, gcgirl, Grandpa Hassan, irishbucsfan, Jarren, jm08, LeinsterDub, Lelantos, lemansky, Midlife Crashes, MikeCork2009, Millem, molloyjh, MonsterMob, Parawhore.xD, postitnote, RandolphEsq, Redsock, RoutineBites, sydthebeat, willit, Zyzz

Do we have to do this kind of crap? Can we not just accept that people have differing opinions

Teferi

trouttrout wrote: »

Do we have to do this kind of crap? Can we not just accept that people have differing wrong opinions

FYP.

:P

irishbucsfan

No

It's a very confusing poll!

leftleg

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's a very confusing poll!

repent repent yee heretics