Les Kiss, realistic long term successor to Kidney?

Swiwi

jm08 wrote: »

He has very little experience of NH rugby so I'd imagine it would be very stiff learning curve. The reason why he got the sack from Stade was because they were struggling at the start of his 2nd season there. He has to take some responsibility for that.

There might have been other reasons for Cheika (although I'm not sure he'd make an international coach).

Some pretty good talent with the Reds (and I think they were a wee bit lucky that the Crusaders had so much travelling to do that season to win the final).

Bonus! It's not as if the NH has been dominating those IRB rankings...I would think a fresh approach is exactly what Ireland needs, the tactics appeared pretty stale by the end of the 6N, in fact I'm not sure there were any tactics in the Italy game.

I don't see any problem with Kiss being interim coach, as I think there'll be more international options post Lions tour, end of SXV season etc.

molloyjh

No

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

He has very little experience of NH rugby so I'd imagine it would be very stiff learning curve. The reason why he got the sack from Stade was because they were struggling at the start of his 2nd season there. He has to take some responsibility for that.

There might have been other reasons for Cheika (although I'm not sure he'd make an international coach).

Some pretty good talent with the Reds (and I think they were a wee bit lucky that the Crusaders had so much travelling to do that season to win the final).

Would you not back the blazers to pick the right man though? You're a big defender of them right?

Eponymous

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't you vote yes?

I think a wholesale clearout now would be a bad idea. At the end of the day Deccie was the head coach and the buck must stop with him. He must have had a say at every major decision in relation to personnel in both player and backroom roles.

Keeping the rest of them in situ for now will hopefully allow the blazers time to have a proper process in order to select a successor to Kidney and then he can be involved in selecting the rest of the coaching ticket. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take the job if the rest of the coaching ticket is just foisted upon him.

opinionatedfan

molloyjh wrote: »

your vote seems to indicate differently :rolleyes:

molloyjh

No

Eponymous wrote: »

Didn't you vote yes?

I think a wholesale clearout now would be a bad idea. At the end of the day Deccie was the head coach and the buck must stop with him. He must have had a say at every major decision in relation to personnel in both player and backroom roles.

Keeping the rest of them in situ for now will hopefully allow the blazers time to have a proper process in order to select a successor to Kidney and then he can be involved in selecting the rest of the coaching ticket. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take the job if the rest of the coaching ticket is just foisted upon him.

opinionatedfan wrote: »

your vote seems to indicate differently :rolleyes:

Ok somebody needs to take a look at the mobile page because I def voted No. That would explain all the Yes votes though...

jm08

No

Swiwi wrote: »

Bonus! It's not as if the NH has been dominating those IRB rankings...I would think a fresh approach is exactly what Ireland needs, the tactics appeared pretty stale by the end of the 6N, in fact I'm not sure there were any tactics in the Italy game.

I don't see any problem with Kiss being interim coach, as I think there'll be more international options post Lions tour, end of SXV season etc.

Gatland, the most recent successful NH international coach has an appalling record against SH teams (one win over Australia about 4/5 years ago). Henry & Hansen didn't have great records either and Matt Williams was sent packing by both Scotland and Ulster. Vern Cotter hasn't had much succeess with Clermont.

It should also be remebered that Kiss, Smal & Feek all had a big hand in Ireland's recent failures (not to mention Gaffney).

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Would you not back the blazers to pick the right man though? You're a big defender of them right?

You expect there to be a queue of suitable candidates to be picked from?

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

You expect there to be a queue of suitable candidates to be picked from?

Doesn't need to be, we only need one manager.
So do you reckon the blazers will get the job done since they're so professional, or are you in two minds over them?

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Doesn't need to be, we only need one manager.
So do you reckon the blazers will get the job done since they're so professional, or are you in two minds over them?

If there is only going to be one applicant, it doesn't matter what the blazers do.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

You expect there to be a queue of suitable candidates to be picked from?

Its an international level coaching job for a big 8 team (even if Kidney and Kiss have managed to drop us to 9th in the rankings). Of course there will be a number of candidates.

Giving Kiss, essentially a failed coach at this level, the job because you might not get someone better would be monumentally stupid.

The idea that there would be only one candidate isn't even worth considering because its nonsense.

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

If there is only going to be one applicant, it doesn't matter what the blazers do.

Well the reason I ask is that you seem to be saying different over on MF, while arguing that the committee is every so professional over here.
You also seem to be glorifying Kidney's work, while also giving out that many on here 'couldn't be winkled out with nuclear weapons'.

Interesting split personality Joe!

jm08

No

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its an international level coaching job for a big 8 team (even if Kidney and Kiss have managed to drop us to 9th in the rankings). Of course there will be a number of candidates.

Giving Kiss, essentially a failed coach at this level, the job because you might not get someone better would be monumentally stupid.

The idea that there would be only one candidate isn't even worth considering because its nonsense.

Ireland were in a better position player wise in 2008 and Kidney was the only applicant for the job back then (while there were 14 applicants for the Munster job shortly afterwards). International coaching is not as sought after as it used be.

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Well the reason I ask is that you seem to be saying different over on MF, while arguing that the committee is every so professional over here, and glorifying Kidney's work, while also giving out that many on here 'couldn't be winkled out with nuclear weapons'.

Interesting split personality!

Who do you think I am on Munsterfans (because its not me who posted that!).

edit: found the post on Munsterfans. Thomond78.

Afraid not!

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

Who do you think I am on Munsterfans (because its not me!).

Ah right, well I'd strongly beg to differ, but will leave it there.

flutered

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

In a lesser role, would people keep him on as defense coach? Wasn't that his initial job as part of the Irish setup?

was not axel foley the defence coach ?.

CIARAN_BOYLE

flutered wrote: »

was not axel foley the defence coach ?.

Kiss was originally hired as defence coach, then when the backs coach left Kiss was defence and backs coach, then he got the defence job taken off him so he could just focus on attack and Foley got the defence coach then (just before the AIs this year)

LeeroyJones

Either Kiss is reinstated as Defence Coach or he should be let go

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Ireland were in a better position player wise in 2008 and Kidney was the only applicant for the job back then (while there were 14 applicants for the Munster job shortly afterwards). International coaching is not as sought after as it used be.

Well I disagree on the first part but if there truly was o ly one applicant for the Ireland job I imagine it's cause everyone knew Kidney was getting the job. There were about 20 applications for the Connacht job. You're hardly going to suggest Ireland is a less attractive gig than Connacht?

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Ah right, well I'd strongly beg to differ, but will leave it there.

Well, you are wrong - again!

The one 'blazer' I would be critical of is Wigglesworth - but he is a suit. I'd say there are no flies on Tom Grace and is probably one of the main reasons that the IRFU has a seat in their pants.

Joe Hart

One of the biggest problems with Ireland over the past few years is that they seemed poorly coached. You could see players who were playing in very successful patterns with provinces falling apart playing for Ireland. Awful stand off defensive structures. 1 dimensional attacking. Nearly every team seemed to have our lineout calls figured.

Swiwi

jm08 wrote: »

Ireland were in a better position player wise in 2008 and Kidney was the only applicant for the job back then (while there were 14 applicants for the Munster job shortly afterwards). International coaching is not as sought after as it used be.

Thankfully rugby has not yet gone the way of soccer, and the international game remains the pinnacle for players and coaches alike. The day when the aforementioned start declining international duties in favour of provincial games will be a sad one...even if representing or coaching Munster is on everyone's bucket list

jm08

No

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well I disagree on the first part but if there truly was o ly one applicant for the Ireland job I imagine it's cause everyone knew Kidney was getting the job. There were about 20 applications for the Connacht job. You're hardly going to suggest Ireland is a less attractive gig than Connacht?

Nope. The IRFU persued a few - Pat Howard, Jake White & Heyneke Meyer I think as well.

Gert Smal applied for the Munster job - he didn't apply for the Ireland one.

Nothing to do with how attractive the gig is - its how qualified the coach is. Tony McGahan (who got the Munster job) or Pat Lam did not apply for the Ireland job.

totallegend

Hmmmm. The waters seem to have got a bit muddied here so let's try to make it clearer, shall we?

LES KISS IS NOT A REALISTIC LONG TERM SUCCESSOR TO DECLAN KIDNEY.

If anyone can make even one coherent argument to the contrary, I'll be shocked.

Benny Cake

Wouldn't mind seeing Axel retained in some role in the new setup. I can't see any circumstances under which Kiss would be offered the position on a full time basis....

opinionatedfan

There is either 21 posters on boards who are trolls or delusional.

Unless they made a mistake.

Podge_irl

totallegend wrote: »

If anyone can make even one coherent argument to the contrary, I'll be shocked.

There's no one else appears to be the only argument being put forward and I simply refuse to believe that's true.

CIARAN_BOYLE

opinionatedfan wrote: »

There is either 21 posters on boards who are trolls or delusional.

Unless they made a mistake.

There are good and sensible posters that seem to have voted for Les Kiss to be the successor to Kidney.

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There are good and sensible posters that seem to have voted for Les Kiss to be the successor to Kidney.

How do you see who has voted yes/no? I'm now worried that I've inadvertently voted yes...

the baby bull elephant

No way should he be head coach but I think some of the stick he gets is ridiculous. As an actual defense coach working solely on defense he is excellent. Our defensive record with him before he started double jobbing was top notch.