Les Kiss, realistic long term successor to Kidney?

opinionatedfan

With the news Kidney is on his way, already Gerry Thornley's dream scenario of Les Kiss becoming the next coach of Ireland has gotten a step closer with the announcement that he will be the interim coach for the summer tour.


Would you be in favour of Kiss replacing Kidney long term as Ireland coach?

lologram

Just no. It's a cop out of an appointment.

Entirely new coaching set up please!

jacko

yes, new setup needed all around. make a fresh start.

Kayless

No and I don't think it will happen the IRFU might be crazy but they are not stupid they know our recent failures are not all down to Kidney

They are simply keeping Kiss to buy time

thomond2006

No way

Teferi

Nope.

Grand for the Summer tour, gives us time to find a top class coach but that's about it.

gcgirl

No

Right who voted yes :-)

.ak

gcgirl wrote: »

Right who voted yes :-)

Les Kiss.

Lyaiera

He's only there to buy time.

I still think it would have been interesting to give the summer job to the Women's coach.

.ak wrote: »

Les Kiss.

And he's bribed Rala for the other vote.

totallegend

Appointing Kiss would deprive the team of the 'fresh voice' benefit that was touted as so important in winning the GS in 2009.

He has no experience as head coach at any level, therefore he is also completely unqualified.

His track record as assistant coach in the last few seasons is patchy at best.

I suspect he and Smal are being kept on to minimise the financial hit of IRFU having to buy out more contracts (and hire another interim staff), I don't expect either to be in situ for 6N 2014.


So, no.

dropping_bombs

Realistically, how could the IRFU have the gall to stick with the same philosophy and motivational styles when it hasn't been working for the last several years? I'm sure the decision makers realise that if Kiss is appointed it'll be the same story coming from a different person, the players won't respond to that. Also if Kiss was appointed would it be the first case in any sport of an assistant of an unsuccessful coach being appointed as head coach and expected to right the ship?

siochain

WOW kiss with 4 votes ..................



I smell a few auld trolls around.....

68 lost souls

Rugby league player turned Irish rugby union coach I wonder how that will work out? I think a potential shift in the scrum rulings in the future based on poor scrumaging over the past few months could actually reflect more of a rugby league type game in union and Kiss could turn out well but still not sure.

Lyaiera

I hope the mods have bumped this poll up to Boardsie HQ to get onto the IP trail of the Les Kiss multiple accounts.

opinionatedfan

Anyone who voted yes, care to explain their reasoning? apart from trolling.

ButtersSuki

In related news, Frankie Sheahan welcomes Les Kiss (for the Ireland job) and Deccie (for the Munster job) onto his books......

Dave_The_Sheep

In a lesser role, would people keep him on as defense coach? Wasn't that his initial job as part of the Irish setup?

jm08

No

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Anyone who voted yes, care to explain their reasoning? apart from trolling.

I can't see anyone else being interested (unless McKenzie doesn't get the Wallabies job which won't be sorted until after the Lions/Championship).

It would be a bit embarrassing to be 2nd choice to a failed Stade coach.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

I can't see anyone else being interested (unless McKenzie doesn't get the Wallabies job which won't be sorted until after the Lions/Championship).

It would be a bit embarrassing to be 2nd choice to a failed Stade coach.

Stade Francais were/are an absolute mess, remember Cheika 'failed' there as well. Richard Pool-Jones has just left. There is/was a lot of off-field problems at that club, they nearly got put out of existence before Savare turned up to bail them out. I wouldn't hold that against McKenzie, although it has to be said that the Stade Francais squad at his disposal was stronger than the current squad.

I think his turnaround of the Queensland from a bottom / near bottom side to Super Rugby champions in two seasons was remarkable.

jm08

No

thomond2006 wrote: »

Stade Francais were/are an absolute mess, remember Cheika 'failed' there as well. Richard Pool-Jones has just left. There is/was a lot of off-field problems at that club, they nearly got put out of existence before Savare turned up to bail them out. I wouldn't hold that against McKenzie, although it has to be said that the Stade Francais squad at his disposal was stronger than the current squad.

I think his turnaround of the Queensland from a bottom / near bottom side to Super Rugby champions in two seasons was remarkable.

He has very little experience of NH rugby so I'd imagine it would be very stiff learning curve. The reason why he got the sack from Stade was because they were struggling at the start of his 2nd season there. He has to take some responsibility for that.

There might have been other reasons for Cheika (although I'm not sure he'd make an international coach).

Some pretty good talent with the Reds (and I think they were a wee bit lucky that the Crusaders had so much travelling to do that season to win the final).

Mahatma Geansai

What's the point in sacking Kidney if you give his position to a coach who has been found out? The defense has notably improved since its responsibility has been fobbed off to Foley. The attack has been shocking since he took over and his flaccid defense knocked us out of the RWC.

Swiwi

As we say in NZ Keep It Simple Stupid...that means an entirely new coaching set up to move Ireland forward!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

In a lesser role, would people keep him on as defense coach? Wasn't that his initial job as part of the Irish setup?

Maybe. Not sure it would be the best idea but I'd rather him as defense coach rather than head coach or attack coach or double jobbing defense and attack coach.

I can see the sense of the interim appointment. IRFU want McKenzie(or other SH coach), he isn't free until after the summer tour so put in someone that doesn't cost any extra money.

bilston

No

If anything the actual coaches (Kiss and Smal) are more responsible for we are at the minute than Kidney. Absolutely no way should either get the job.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

I can't see anyone else being interested (unless McKenzie doesn't get the Wallabies job which won't be sorted until after the Lions/Championship).

It would be a bit embarrassing to be 2nd choice to a failed Stade coach.

so your going down the "but there's no one else" route so, fair play

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

He has very little experience of NH rugby so I'd imagine it would be very stiff learning curve.

Its a steep learning curve alright, just ask Joe and Vern.

[Jackass]

I struggle to see any logic in settling for Kiss, unless we really really can't find anybody else. But there would want to be a lot of "thanks but no thanks" letters before I turned to Kiss.

Was there anything of note he brought during his tenure in the backroom staff with Ireland?

If we're going to appoint domestically, (ruling out provincial coaches for a moment) I'd look to someone like Ruddock (GS winning coach in his own right) before I'd turn to Kiss. In fact, I'm quite disappointed he wasn't given the role for the summer tour, as presumably he would be a credible candidate, all be it not topping the list of desired candidates.

He did a reasonable job with Leinster (Heineken Cup semi-final), turned Wales around from a sh*t show to Grand Slam champs (in some ways, opposite to what Kidney did, brought us from GS quality side to sh*t shows) and has done well with U-20's and a superb job with Lansdowne. Definitely a contender, but in IRFU now trade mark stupidity, didn't bother taking a look at him in the role on a temporary basis before making their decision.

LeeroyJones

Certainly not for Head Coach.

I'd be open to him being held as defence coach however

tolosenc

Where's the option for "OH GOOD LORD NO!!!"?

totallegend

leftleg wrote: »

Its a steep learning curve alright, just ask Joe and Vern.

More importantly, we've been playing NH rugby for 150 years and it's got us nowhere. We need a new approach.

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

He has very little experience of NH rugby so I'd imagine it would be very stiff learning curve. The reason why he got the sack from Stade was because they were struggling at the start of his 2nd season there. He has to take some responsibility for that.

There might have been other reasons for Cheika (although I'm not sure he'd make an international coach).

Some pretty good talent with the Reds (and I think they were a wee bit lucky that the Crusaders had so much travelling to do that season to win the final).

Finished second bottom the year before he took over.
A lot of similarities there in taking a team with obvious talent and putting the structure, attacking strategy and teamwork in place to take them higher.

Swiwi

jm08 wrote: »

He has very little experience of NH rugby so I'd imagine it would be very stiff learning curve. The reason why he got the sack from Stade was because they were struggling at the start of his 2nd season there. He has to take some responsibility for that.

There might have been other reasons for Cheika (although I'm not sure he'd make an international coach).

Some pretty good talent with the Reds (and I think they were a wee bit lucky that the Crusaders had so much travelling to do that season to win the final).

Bonus! It's not as if the NH has been dominating those IRB rankings...I would think a fresh approach is exactly what Ireland needs, the tactics appeared pretty stale by the end of the 6N, in fact I'm not sure there were any tactics in the Italy game.

I don't see any problem with Kiss being interim coach, as I think there'll be more international options post Lions tour, end of SXV season etc.

molloyjh

No

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

He has very little experience of NH rugby so I'd imagine it would be very stiff learning curve. The reason why he got the sack from Stade was because they were struggling at the start of his 2nd season there. He has to take some responsibility for that.

There might have been other reasons for Cheika (although I'm not sure he'd make an international coach).

Some pretty good talent with the Reds (and I think they were a wee bit lucky that the Crusaders had so much travelling to do that season to win the final).

Would you not back the blazers to pick the right man though? You're a big defender of them right?

Eponymous

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't you vote yes?

I think a wholesale clearout now would be a bad idea. At the end of the day Deccie was the head coach and the buck must stop with him. He must have had a say at every major decision in relation to personnel in both player and backroom roles.

Keeping the rest of them in situ for now will hopefully allow the blazers time to have a proper process in order to select a successor to Kidney and then he can be involved in selecting the rest of the coaching ticket. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take the job if the rest of the coaching ticket is just foisted upon him.

opinionatedfan

molloyjh wrote: »

your vote seems to indicate differently :rolleyes:

molloyjh

No

Eponymous wrote: »

Didn't you vote yes?

I think a wholesale clearout now would be a bad idea. At the end of the day Deccie was the head coach and the buck must stop with him. He must have had a say at every major decision in relation to personnel in both player and backroom roles.

Keeping the rest of them in situ for now will hopefully allow the blazers time to have a proper process in order to select a successor to Kidney and then he can be involved in selecting the rest of the coaching ticket. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take the job if the rest of the coaching ticket is just foisted upon him.

opinionatedfan wrote: »

your vote seems to indicate differently :rolleyes:

Ok somebody needs to take a look at the mobile page because I def voted No. That would explain all the Yes votes though...

jm08

No

Swiwi wrote: »

Bonus! It's not as if the NH has been dominating those IRB rankings...I would think a fresh approach is exactly what Ireland needs, the tactics appeared pretty stale by the end of the 6N, in fact I'm not sure there were any tactics in the Italy game.

I don't see any problem with Kiss being interim coach, as I think there'll be more international options post Lions tour, end of SXV season etc.

Gatland, the most recent successful NH international coach has an appalling record against SH teams (one win over Australia about 4/5 years ago). Henry & Hansen didn't have great records either and Matt Williams was sent packing by both Scotland and Ulster. Vern Cotter hasn't had much succeess with Clermont.

It should also be remebered that Kiss, Smal & Feek all had a big hand in Ireland's recent failures (not to mention Gaffney).

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Would you not back the blazers to pick the right man though? You're a big defender of them right?

You expect there to be a queue of suitable candidates to be picked from?

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

You expect there to be a queue of suitable candidates to be picked from?

Doesn't need to be, we only need one manager.
So do you reckon the blazers will get the job done since they're so professional, or are you in two minds over them?

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Doesn't need to be, we only need one manager.
So do you reckon the blazers will get the job done since they're so professional, or are you in two minds over them?

If there is only going to be one applicant, it doesn't matter what the blazers do.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

You expect there to be a queue of suitable candidates to be picked from?

Its an international level coaching job for a big 8 team (even if Kidney and Kiss have managed to drop us to 9th in the rankings). Of course there will be a number of candidates.

Giving Kiss, essentially a failed coach at this level, the job because you might not get someone better would be monumentally stupid.

The idea that there would be only one candidate isn't even worth considering because its nonsense.

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

If there is only going to be one applicant, it doesn't matter what the blazers do.

Well the reason I ask is that you seem to be saying different over on MF, while arguing that the committee is every so professional over here.
You also seem to be glorifying Kidney's work, while also giving out that many on here 'couldn't be winkled out with nuclear weapons'.

Interesting split personality Joe!

jm08

No

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its an international level coaching job for a big 8 team (even if Kidney and Kiss have managed to drop us to 9th in the rankings). Of course there will be a number of candidates.

Giving Kiss, essentially a failed coach at this level, the job because you might not get someone better would be monumentally stupid.

The idea that there would be only one candidate isn't even worth considering because its nonsense.

Ireland were in a better position player wise in 2008 and Kidney was the only applicant for the job back then (while there were 14 applicants for the Munster job shortly afterwards). International coaching is not as sought after as it used be.

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Well the reason I ask is that you seem to be saying different over on MF, while arguing that the committee is every so professional over here, and glorifying Kidney's work, while also giving out that many on here 'couldn't be winkled out with nuclear weapons'.

Interesting split personality!

Who do you think I am on Munsterfans (because its not me who posted that!).

edit: found the post on Munsterfans. Thomond78.

Afraid not!

jamiedav2011

jm08 wrote: »

Who do you think I am on Munsterfans (because its not me!).

Ah right, well I'd strongly beg to differ, but will leave it there.

flutered

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

In a lesser role, would people keep him on as defense coach? Wasn't that his initial job as part of the Irish setup?

was not axel foley the defence coach ?.

CIARAN_BOYLE

flutered wrote: »

was not axel foley the defence coach ?.

Kiss was originally hired as defence coach, then when the backs coach left Kiss was defence and backs coach, then he got the defence job taken off him so he could just focus on attack and Foley got the defence coach then (just before the AIs this year)

LeeroyJones

Either Kiss is reinstated as Defence Coach or he should be let go

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Ireland were in a better position player wise in 2008 and Kidney was the only applicant for the job back then (while there were 14 applicants for the Munster job shortly afterwards). International coaching is not as sought after as it used be.

Well I disagree on the first part but if there truly was o ly one applicant for the Ireland job I imagine it's cause everyone knew Kidney was getting the job. There were about 20 applications for the Connacht job. You're hardly going to suggest Ireland is a less attractive gig than Connacht?

jm08

No

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Ah right, well I'd strongly beg to differ, but will leave it there.

Well, you are wrong - again!

The one 'blazer' I would be critical of is Wigglesworth - but he is a suit. I'd say there are no flies on Tom Grace and is probably one of the main reasons that the IRFU has a seat in their pants.