Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

Ranicand

I can't resist one more post.

Here is how things will go.

The OP is a clear rejoined banned member for a start.

This thread will quickly leave the facts behind while the two faced so called nice people get as many people banned as they can for posting facts.

See OP that is why you were banned you stir up the crap.

These threads always end up with posters bashing each other.

WayneMolloy

mikemac1 wrote: »

A thread with lots of links and you even gave a link to the Central Statistics Office.

Good work OP

Thanks!

Forgot to add in the link for the unemployment rate of Irish nationals in Australia (2.4%)

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

suicide_circus

WayneMolloy wrote: »

It was announced during the week that David Cameron plans to curb social welfare entitlements and social housing access to non British citizens.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/uk-limits-foreigners-access-to-welfare-housing-healthcare-20130325-2gq6p.html

Is it time Ireland followed suit?

In Fingal, some 70 different nationalities are on the housing list. One in four, are non EU citizens.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

Eastern european nationals unemployment rate ranges from 20-25 percent. Whilst some new arrivals from Africa, have a staggering unemployment rate of near 40 percent.

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/

Compare these figures with the number of unemployed Irish emigrants in Australia - their unemployment rate is 2 percent. No social housing for them. Work or starve.

Is it time we became more stringent - welcome workers and toss out those who cannot look after themselves without state support?

Those without stamps should have their "entitlements" curtailed on a sliding scale. This goes for anyone who has never worked.
But certainly non EU citizens should get basically zero.

mattjack

Gongoozler wrote: »

If you are an EU/EEA resident, moving to Ireland you can claim Jobseekers Allowance, based on your means. Of course you need to show your plan is to stay here and build a life here. Outside of EU/EEA residents, I don't know how it works.

If you satisfy the habitual residence test .

RasTa

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Sweden lashes out welfare at their migrant populations - its bad, if not worse, than in France.

I note that you are in Canada. If you are Irish and on a whv, you are entitled to nothing. Are they denying you your basic needs?

You've obviously never being to Sweden.

Anyway one of your articles mentioned 53k people came here in 2011 and some 30% claiming benefits so this type of suggestion wouldn't really save much money.

Good PR move for Cameron

Celly Smunt

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Jesus. H. Christ.

Can we direct them to your place? Such an egalitarian would welcome them with open arms, right?

You don't get it clearly.Immigration should be halted or at least more restricted for now Ireland.There are no employment oppertunities for those coming without work.However since the immigration authorities don't seem to want to restrict access,it only makes sense to give immigrants some sort of chance on getting on their feet here than to purge them into complete poverty here.What would your suggestion be? Throw them on the streets? Build new areas for immigrants so they can all be impoverished there?.The irsh government has to either restrict access/throw them out or support them while they're here if they can't get work otherwise you get a poor immigrant community with no opportunities leading to a battlefield for everybody in the coming years.

pragmatic1

I'd like to see them get welfare entitlements up until a certain point. For example unemployment benefit for a few months if they're between jobs and health care.

After that point I don't see why it's our responsibility to support citizens of another sovereign state, especially when we're struggling ourselves.

I don't see anything controversial about this.

youtube!

Look it should be very simple. Come to Ireland to work. If you cannot secure work then you go home. If you can secure work but become unemployed then collect your Jobseekers benefit for the 9 months or whatever the term is.
At the end of this term if you have been unsuccessful in your efforts to find employment then it time to go back to your own country or wherever you want but don't expect to claim benefits in Ireland forever just because you have paid stamps for a year or two. I think Cameron is absolutely on the ball here we should definitely follow suit. (AWAITS FLAMES)

WayneMolloy

pmcmahon wrote: »

You don't get it clearly.Immigration should be halted or at least more restricted for now Ireland.There are no employment oppertunities for those coming without work.However since the immigration authorities don't seem to want to restrict access,it only makes sense to give immigrants some sort of chance on getting on their feet here than to purge them into complete poverty here.What would your suggestion be? Throw them on the streets? Build new areas for immigrants so they can all be impoverished there?.The irsh government has to either restrict access/throw them out or support them while they're here if they can't get work otherwise you get a poor immigrant community with no opportunities leading to a battlefield for everybody in the coming years.

Come here, have a stab at finding work. If after 3 months they cant find any, probably best they try somewhere else. Hooking people up to the welfare state indefinitely will just entice more people to come here. We are cutting essential services as is.

But if people want to come here, legally, and chance their arm at finding employment or becoming self employed - fine. Once they can support themselves.

Sweden adopted similar to what you are proposing, it aint working out so well.

KuriousOranj

gallag wrote: »

Up North many roma are selling big issues and can then get all working benefits, is it the same down south?

I used to work for Ireland's Big Issue Magazine and from my experience dealing with the DSW,they have no problem with anyone of any nationality claiming benefit and selling the magazine because it doesnt inhibit the sellers actively seeking work,and they don't make any sort of substantial money selling the mag anyway.

The vast majority of Roma people I've dealt with were entitled to no benefits upon arrival here,and ended up living in squats or in tents in the Phoenix Park while selling the magazine.

Grand Moff Tarkin

A good friend of mine has worked his entire adult life and in the last year had his work hours cut down to fifteen hours a week. He has been signing on for the days he is not working as he is entitled to do and last week received a letter from the department of social payments stating that unless they see proof that he is actively seeking employment for the two days of the week he is signing on that he will be cut off from the exchange. Yet you get people coming here from every corner of the globe and getting money for nothing and i have to wonder would any asylum seekers or "political refugees" get similar letters if they are in receipt of payments after a certain length of time.

Gee_G

KuriousOranj wrote: »

I used to work for Ireland's Big Issue Magazine and from my experience dealing with the DSW,they have no problem with anyone of any nationality claiming benefit and selling the magazine because it doesnt inhibit the sellers actively seeking work,and they don't make any sort of substantial money selling the mag anyway.

The vast majority of Roma people I've dealt with were entitled to no benefits upon arrival here,and ended up living in squats or in tents in the Phoenix Park while selling the magazine.

How Does it not inhibit the sellers jobseeking? And how are they entitled to claim jobseekers benefit/allowance just because they are not making substantial money? sure the majority of the population of Ireland are no longer making substantial money!
I'm not being smart by the way, just wondering what sort of explanation the Social would give!

Grayditch

SEVENTY NATIONALITIES?



That's pretty cool!

yabadabado

gcgirl wrote: »

People need 2 year residence before they are entitled to anything!

incorrect

WayneMolloy

Grayditch wrote: »

SEVENTY NATIONALITIES?



That's pretty cool!

Not if you are the poor sap getting up at the crack of dawn every morning to pay your own mortgage and their welfare to boot.

RasTa

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Not if you are the poor sap getting up at the crack of dawn every morning to pay your own mortgage and their welfare to boot.

How much will this save? That's all that matters.

Gongoozler

mattjack wrote: »

If you satisfy the habitual residence test .

That's what I mean by 'show your plan is to stay here and build a life here'. That's what the habitual residence test is.

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

To qualify for Seekers Benefit you need two years worth of stamps and residence. For Seekers Allowance, not so, although it is means tested and applicants must prove that Ireland is their main centre of interest (bank statement, lease and a phone bill would prove this).

Hope that clears up your misconceptions.

Post is so wrong it defies belief!

Death and Taxes

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

A good friend of mine has worked his entire adult life and in the last year had his work hours cut down to fifteen hours a week. He has been signing on for the days he is not working as he is entitled to do and last week received a letter from the department of social payments stating that unless they see proof that he is actively seeking employment for the two days of the week he is signing on that he will be cut off from the exchange. Yet you get people coming here from every corner of the globe and getting money for nothing and i have to wonder would any asylum seekers or "political refugees" get similar letters if they are in receipt of payments after a certain length of time.

Asylum seekers cannot claim dole and are prohibited from working.

WayneMolloy

RasTa wrote: »

How much will this save? That's all that matters.

Quite a considerable amount. There are 70 different nationalities on the fingal county council housing list alone.

We can no longer afford to be overtly generous. Once the UK clamps down on this, where do you think the welfare tourists will look to next?

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Post is so wrong it defies belief!

The floor is all yours.

Galwayguy35

pmcmahon wrote: »

I'm in fact back in Ireland and very lucky to be a dual citizen.There is employment in Canada,there is no employement here.How can you expect migrants to come here and live off the earth.The only sensible option for Ireland is to restrict entry to migrants more so at the moment for their own sake by taking action at source.Until then I support social welfare looking after immigrants.

Sure why would they come over here in the first place when there is no jobs here for them?

Grand Moff Tarkin

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Asylum seekers cannot claim dole and are prohibited from working.

They get benefits and allowance money.

youtube!

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Quite a considerable amount. There are 70 different nationalities on the fingal county council housing list alone.

We can no longer afford to be overtly generous. Once the UK clamps down on this, where do you think the welfare tourists will look to next?[/QUOTE]




A very good point and a scary one....

ResearchWill

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

A good friend of mine has worked his entire adult life and in the last year had his work hours cut down to fifteen hours a week. He has been signing on for the days he is not working as he is entitled to do and last week received a letter from the department of social payments stating that unless they see proof that he is actively seeking employment for the two days of the week he is signing on that he will be cut off from the exchange. Yet you get people coming here from every corner of the globe and getting money for nothing and i have to wonder would any asylum seekers or "political refugees" get similar letters if they are in receipt of payments after a certain length of time.

Asylum seekers receive no unemployment. When you are a asylum seeker you get put up in a hostel and 3 meals a day plus the large amount of €19.00 a week. If you are one of the very few declared a refugee then you have the same rights as an Irish citizen, which does include the same requirement to be seeking work.

ResearchWill

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

They get benefits and allowance money.

What do the get exactly.

RADIUS

gallag wrote: »

Up North many roma are selling big issues and can then get all working benefits, is it the same down south?

Does the South in include Donegal?

youtube!

Asylum seekers are not the issue here but more the immigrants who decide to stay on when they have no work. I am talking about legal not illegal because illegals won't get anything anyway.

WayneMolloy

ResearchWill wrote: »

What do the get exactly.

Do they not need cash for essentials like clothing, general grooming, kids accessories and what not?They also receive three meals, snacks,free medical care and education for their kids.

A lot of Irish people would love to have 20 euro left over each week

Catphish

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Is it time Ireland followed suit?

Yes. I just think this country is a laughing stock at this stage. What you said further into the thread about us being the next stop when the UK does this is very likely. We can't handle the debt we have as it is.