What do you think of people who never marry?

DoozerT6

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I am one of these people. I am in my late thirties, female and have never had a relationship. It simply never happened for me, no matter what I tried. Yes, I would love a relationship but I honestly don't see it happening for me now - well it hasn't up to now, so I don't see it changing as I get older and have to compete with girls 10-15 years younger than me.

For the people who envy the perma-single for their ability to do what they want, when they want - believe me, that gets old after 39 years of it. Of course, everybody likes a Saturday to themselves to chill out, relax, whatever, but NEVER having ANYBODY special in your life to stroll around town with, go on a weekend away with (no, I have never been on a weekend away), or just chill out and watch crappy DVD's with is incredibly lonely. Friends move on, have their own lives and families, and even though I hang out with them I can't help feeling like I'm just hanging onto the coat-tails of THEIR lives, being the third wheel, whatever. Often on weekends I do absolutely nothing. It's actually easier than constantly doing stuff alone and having nobody to share it with.

If a person is genuinely happiest alone, doesn't feel the need for romantic love and is fulfilled with hobbies, etc. then more power to them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. But those of us who would love a partner to make us feel cared for, desired, half of a partnership etc. the loneliness can be palpable. And do you know what's worse than family/acquaintances teasing 'when are you going to find yourself a fella??'...when they STOP asking. That is worse. I have had workmates awkwardly change the subject of partners whenever it comes up around me because they sense that I cannot contribute to the discussion (I never discuss my relationship status, or lack thereof, in work. I wish I could. I would love to be able to have those normal 'meself and himself went to xxx restaurant on Sat night, it was lovely, have you been there?' conversations that are just everyday to other people).

Somebody mentioned also the fact that we have never known the pain of breaking up with someone. That is true. We have never experienced a normal, natural part of growing up that helps us grow as people and figure out what we what from a partner. I once had a friend (we were in our late 20's at the time) ring my mobile in floods of tears after her boyfriend broke up with her (it had been on the cards for a while) and I actually pretended not to be at home so she wouldn't come around and I wouldn't have to listen to her crying her heart out. Why? Because I was so fecking jealous of her actually having HAD the experience of someone loving her enough that they both cried their eyes out while they were ending their relationship. I honestly didn't think I could listen to her without crying myself. Yes, I was jealous of her tears. And sad for myself because nobody had ever felt that way about me. I just wanted to shake her and say 'don't you know how lucky you are to have had love like that in your life?'

That probably makes me sound like a bitch, a horrible friend, but I was so emotionally low about the whole thing at the time that it seemed like the only option for me.

Yes I have tried internet dating. Yes I have tried going to bars/clubs. Yes I have joined clubs etc. But I am never the one who gets 'picked'. And I have tried all the approaches: outrageous flirting, subtle flirting, no flirting at all, just chilling out, being friendly, enjoying myself and not thinking about finding a man....still nothing. When you see other people, who seem neither physically not emotionally attractive who never seem to be without a partner, it kinda makes you give up.

My name is DoozerT6 and I am (apparently) Involuntarily Celibate.

I'm 28, yet I feel exactly the same way you do.

For me, I just think I'm incapable of getting close to someone. Not because of any conditions or syndromes, just down to how life shaped me. On the other hand I've grown to accept it more in the last while.

Standman

I've gotten more and more disillusioned with the idea of marriage as I get older.

LizT

Standman wrote: »

I've gotten more and more disillusioned with the idea of marriage as I get older.

Same here. A lot of couple just seem to do it now because it's what society expects of them.

seenitall

shopaholic01 wrote: »

You should try it. You might have met men over the years who were too shy to ask you out, or may have thought you weren't interested,. That worst that can happen is that they say no.

I've no experience of internet dating so I can't comment on that, but I would imagine it's harder to gauge someone when you're chatting online.

LOL... asking a man out to dinner, sorry but that's just not the done thing.

Men don't even ask women out for dinner any more, let alone the other way round. I can just envisage "weirdo" or "scary" flashing through their minds, when I've now been turned down even for simple drinks quite enough, thank you.

shopaholic01

seenitall wrote: »

LOL... asking a man out to dinner, sorry but that's just not the done thing.

Men don't even ask women out for dinner any more, let alone the other way round. I can just envisage "weirdo" or "scary" flashing through their minds, when I've now been turned down even for simple drinks quite enough, thank you.

She mentioned never being asked out to dinner, hence my post. And yes, people do still ask people out for a meal.

Miss Lockhart

Czarcasm wrote: »

I can only speak from my own experience and those of my friends who have been or are currently single, so it turns out none of what I said is relevant to you or your friends, which in turn then makes me wonder why you took issue with my post in the first place when the hat clearly didn't fit.




When did I ever say reluctantly single people were idiots? I think you're reading WAY too much into my posts and extrapolating like I have some issue with reluctantly single people. I really don't. My only point was that some single people in my experience don't seem to want to think that there could be numerous reasons why people wouldn't want to date them or are not attracted to them!





Well I didn't say there was anything wrong with your friends, it's the people who had dated them found fault with them, your issues are with them surely before you could possibly take issue with something I posted which is apparently completely irrelevant to you and your friends.

Your initial post, although an exaggerated example, read as a generalisation that those who struggle to find a relationship have something wrong with them, even if it is not necessarily something obvious or what they might think themselves.

Your further post that such single people should work on themselves as people and are to blame for being single seems to confirm that you believe these people have something that needs to be fixed.

I posted to reject that generalisation as not having much merit. Not just for my single friends, who are certainly not exceptional, , but for the majority of long term single people.

Chavways

Ranicand wrote: »

You can grab what you like.

But if I live my life and obey the laws nobody has a right to look down on me.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8yhExIvrzkNjSvSlAV6VRt2ePHTezc49bFiz27T_FWXqjQdkG

seenitall

starlings wrote: »

it makes sense if you read it as the right to complain about not having a relationship, and not look at the possible reasons for this, and accept that there are so many variables you might as well be complaining about the weather.

Also, while you have every right to complain, it's the least attractive thing you could do.

Well, I just didn't like the tone of that post. Perhaps I misunderstood what C was getting at..?

As for the unattractiveness of me complaining, thanks! Just another nail on the coffin of my eternal singledom then, I guess.

Greentopia

Well as I'm unmarried myself, (well) over 25 and unlikely to ever marry-by choice- obviously I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Horses for courses and all that.

And no I'm not unmarried because of how I look or any major personality or character defect. I'm not beautiful by any means, but I'm no minger either :cool: and I'm a kind and decent person I reckon.

I just never wanted to get married. Or have kids for that matter. So I haven't, simple as that.

The only thing I would not like is to end up alone in my old age like my Mum. But hopefully I'll have my life ordered in such a way that that won't happen.

Micky Dolenz

LizT wrote: »

Same here. A lot of couple just seem to do it now because it's what society expects of them.

A lot of it has to do with how the law in Ireland operates. Unmarried fathers have no automatic rights to their children. A man will children with a partner gets married and then he assumes all rights. Next of kin issues with unmarried couples etc etc.

I have mates who have children with long term partners who can't legally take them out of the country or make a medical call at a hospital if needed.

He could at the same time go through a legal route and become a legal guardian without marriage.

Tax affairs are another thing.

The way the laws are shaped strongly encourages marriage.

Czarcasm

DoozerT6 wrote: »

Czarcasm with all due respect, when you've spent 20+ years looking, seen absolutely everybody you know have several relationships before settling down (or not) and you're still flying solo at 39 having never even gone out to dinner with someone, then no matter what kind of silver lining you try to imagine, it still feels crappy, so I think we're entitled to a little anonymous moan on t'interwebz about feeling low about ourselves. I certainly feel very sad about never having said those two simple words: 'my boyfriend'. And no offense, but unless you've been in the situation yourself then you really have no idea how it feels, how you would react emotionally. If you are in this situation, then my apologies, and I admire your 'Keep Calm and Find a Boyfriend' attitude, that we can just go out and find someone. If it were that easy, don't you think those of us who wanted to, would have done so by now?

Ah no Doozer, I don't mean to come off as a hard ass, and certainly I can empathise with your situation in which you find yourself. I guess it wouldn't have taken captain obvious to guess that your earlier post was indeed the post I was referring to, but I didn't want to pick you up on it and come off as a patronising prick either. It's not my place to tell you how to live your life and certainly I wouldn't deny anyone a few bytes to moan on the Internet.

I've certainly been in the situation when I was younger and thought "I'll never find anybody" (sometimes I still pinch myself when I wake up that I was lucky enough to find my wife; she kicks herself that she found me, but that's a whole other thread! ).

But I know OF people who thought they would be eternally single, such as my friend I've known for the last 20 years who was never bothered about meeting one special person as in his own words he shared his life with many special people, he's now well into his fifties and dating a cracking girl for the last two years, as if the last forty odd years of singledom never even happened!

Another friend of mine is a 46 year old divorced woman who was married to her secondary school sweetheart at 16 and found herself divorced at 44 with four children ranging in ages from ten to eighteen.

She almost resigned herself to being undateable, thought she'd never find anyone again that would love her or that she could find to love. A couple of months later she'd nabbed herself a toy boy and you'd swear she was 16 again the way she goes on. Lovely woman but sometimes it does feel indeed like I'm talking to a giddy teenager! The change in her has been like night and day! She's happy and more power to her, but that'll be the last time I buy any of my friends a vibrator as a joke for their birthday in an attempt to cheer them up! :pac:

I guess all I'm saying is that just because it hasn't happened for you yet Doozer doesn't mean it WON'T happen, and I do wish you weren't so quick to write yourself off. It hasn't worked out for you yet is all, but there are any amount of opportunities for you to make it happen for yourself, one being just to cast your net a bit wider.

Someone else in the thread mentioned that a person in Dublin won't meet the person that might be right for them in Montreal or whatever, but there you go again, through the magic of t'Internet it brings you both a lot closer!

seenitall

shopaholic01 wrote: »

She mentioned never being asked out to dinner, hence my post. And yes, people do still ask people out for a meal.

I am a long-time single person living in a medium sized Irish town. Among the single people who I meet, dinners are unheard of, at least as the first-date option. Too formal, too "scary", I guess.

starlings

seenitall wrote: »

I am a long-time single person living in a medium sized Irish town. Among the single people who I meet, dinners are unheard of, at least as the first-date option. Too formal, too "scary", I guess.

it's always nice to ask, or to be asked, to go for a walk.

wandatowell

LizT wrote: »

A lot of couple just seem to do it now because it's what society expects of them.

Thats fcukin bull***t


Its all about the tax credits :pac:

seenitall

starlings wrote: »

it's always nice to ask, or to be asked, to go for a walk.

Yes, a nice idea. Perhaps I'll try that the next time where I get turned down. It'll make a change from drinks at least.

shopaholic01

seenitall wrote: »

Yes, a nice idea. Perhaps I'll try that the next time where I get turned down. It'll make a change from drinks at least.

So you expect to be turned down before you ask?

mariaalice

When I read threads like this I am more convinced than ever that the INTERNET has pulled off the neat trick of both enslaving and freeing people.

I am middle aged and when I was growing up lots of the neighbours were elderly people who had never married nobody passed any comment on this it was just part of life, I doubt they though there was anything personally "wrong" with themselves for not being married however nowadays people are bombarded with informations and end up feeling that it is somehow there fault that they are not in a relationships and the idea of acceptance of how thing turn out seems to be lost and there is constant questioning of everything and a lot of judgement.

seenitall

shopaholic01 wrote: »

So you expect to be turned down before you ask?

Always. My experience has shown me no different outcome to my initiatives in, er, some years.

(Which logically tells me that I should stop trying and that if it happens at all for me, it will be at the man's initiative. It's just unfortunate that I seemingly have this quirk in the personality whereby I like to choose my guy, rather than him choosing me.)

Wanderer2010

Makes no difference to me if someone is single, married, gay etc as long as I can connect with them, if i cant then I move on thats just life. What I hate is people who just exclude you in the workplace if you dont share everything of your personal life with them, as if talking about a relationship is the only thing thats important in daily life. There are far too many shallow and judgemental people out there who only interact with you if you are in a relationship and deem you unworthy and weird if you arent. Sad.

Lawrence1895

wandatowell wrote: »

Thats fcukin bull***t


Its all about the tax credits :pac:

I would call it like that, some maybe don't want to be disowned by their parents?

seenitall

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Makes no difference to me if someone is single, married, gay etc as long as I can connect with them, if i cant then I move on thats just life. What I hate is people who just exclude you in the workplace if you dont share everything of your personal life with them, as if talking about a relationship is the only thing thats important in daily life. There are far too many shallow and judgemental people out there who only interact with you if you are in a relationship and deem you unworthy and weird if you arent. Sad.

I think the above kind of judgment (and similar) is found mostly as part your 'regular', strait-laced, 2 up 2 down semi-d Irish society.

Some of us, namely those who live some alternative lifestyles, with no families or the big eye of the parish upon us (immigrants, for example) are lucky enough not to have to experience it - living on the margins, as it were, has its advantages!

starlings

seenitall wrote: »

Always. My experience has shown me no different outcome to my initiatives in, er, some years.

(Which logically tells me that I should stop trying and that if it happens at all for me, it will be at the man's initiative. It's just unfortunate that I seemingly have this quirk in the personality whereby I like to choose my guy, rather than him choosing me.)

this is turning into PI! My best kisses have happened without the fanfare of dates. I think if I get & give another one it'll be the same - because I've just fallen into step with someone and it's what happens when not kissing would be the more nerve-wracking thing to do.

good for you with the initiative btw, I've done that too (to varying success), but I do enough logistics in day-to-day life to be bothered trying to choreograph a kiss.

Tisserand

I am 50 and am single. My mother got married when she was 33 because she was 'getting on' as she put it and wanted to have lots of children so she was matched off with my father. They never got on and only spoke to each other when absolutely necessary. My mother was always encouraging us when we were growing up to marry just to have children, and not to be fussy about the husband we choose. This made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever as I considered that loving my husband would be more important if not as important than having children. I did have two long relationships, one in my 20s and one in my 30s both of which I found absolutely stifling. If I had married either of these guys I wouldn't have lasted a wet week. I don't miss not having a partner but having said that after both parents died I did feel a bit lost because I was no longer part of a family unit and I didn't really feel part of my siblings llives who are all married with children. I don't think a relationship is on the cards for me now at this time of my life. All of my female friends are married and I spend a lot of time being a shoulder to cry on for some of them whose marriages are miserable and I sometimes feel thankful that I am not like them as some of them feel they have no way out.

Pug160

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I am one of these people. I am in my late thirties, female and have never had a relationship. It simply never happened for me, no matter what I tried. Yes, I would love a relationship but I honestly don't see it happening for me now - well it hasn't up to now, so I don't see it changing as I get older and have to compete with girls 10-15 years younger than me.

For the people who envy the perma-single for their ability to do what they want, when they want - believe me, that gets old after 39 years of it. Of course, everybody likes a Saturday to themselves to chill out, relax, whatever, but NEVER having ANYBODY special in your life to stroll around town with, go on a weekend away with (no, I have never been on a weekend away), or just chill out and watch crappy DVD's with is incredibly lonely. Friends move on, have their own lives and families, and even though I hang out with them I can't help feeling like I'm just hanging onto the coat-tails of THEIR lives, being the third wheel, whatever. Often on weekends I do absolutely nothing. It's actually easier than constantly doing stuff alone and having nobody to share it with.

If a person is genuinely happiest alone, doesn't feel the need for romantic love and is fulfilled with hobbies, etc. then more power to them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. But those of us who would love a partner to make us feel cared for, desired, half of a partnership etc. the loneliness can be palpable. And do you know what's worse than family/acquaintances teasing 'when are you going to find yourself a fella??'...when they STOP asking. That is worse. I have had workmates awkwardly change the subject of partners whenever it comes up around me because they sense that I cannot contribute to the discussion (I never discuss my relationship status, or lack thereof, in work. I wish I could. I would love to be able to have those normal 'meself and himself went to xxx restaurant on Sat night, it was lovely, have you been there?' conversations that are just everyday to other people).

Somebody mentioned also the fact that we have never known the pain of breaking up with someone. That is true. We have never experienced a normal, natural part of growing up that helps us grow as people and figure out what we what from a partner. I once had a friend (we were in our late 20's at the time) ring my mobile in floods of tears after her boyfriend broke up with her (it had been on the cards for a while) and I actually pretended not to be at home so she wouldn't come around and I wouldn't have to listen to her crying her heart out. Why? Because I was so fecking jealous of her actually having HAD the experience of someone loving her enough that they both cried their eyes out while they were ending their relationship. I honestly didn't think I could listen to her without crying myself. Yes, I was jealous of her tears. And sad for myself because nobody had ever felt that way about me. I just wanted to shake her and say 'don't you know how lucky you are to have had love like that in your life?'

That probably makes me sound like a bitch, a horrible friend, but I was so emotionally low about the whole thing at the time that it seemed like the only option for me.

Yes I have tried internet dating. Yes I have tried going to bars/clubs. Yes I have joined clubs etc. But I am never the one who gets 'picked'. And I have tried all the approaches: outrageous flirting, subtle flirting, no flirting at all, just chilling out, being friendly, enjoying myself and not thinking about finding a man....still nothing. When you see other people, who seem neither physically not emotionally attractive who never seem to be without a partner, it kinda makes you give up.

My name is DoozerT6 and I am (apparently) Involuntarily Celibate.

A lot of men think women have it easier but stories like your prove otherwise. I have to raise my eyebrows at your last line though. I find it very difficult to believe a woman can be involuntarily celibate unless she's either a recluse, hideously unattractive or is extremely fussy. Although you may only want sex in a relationship. If that's the case I can understand. Anyway, I'm just being pedantic.

Sitec

I don't judge anyone on their relationship status. There's plenty of good people who are married that are idiots and plenty of single folk. It's fairly subjective.

ynul31f47k6b59

seven_eleven wrote: »

Whats your general opinion of people who never marry, or get into relationships? I mean people well past 25, and all the way up into their 60 beyond who have never had a life partner, or anybody significant in their lives?

Do you think its kind of sad? Do you look down upon them, or see them as slightly weird people?

I'm curious to know, as I dont think I struggle to think of many adults who have no partner.

I don't think it's sad OR weird. I don't think you need to be tied to another human being to have a completely happy and fulfilled life. I know plenty of people who are perfectly content with their own company and would never choose to be married or in a relationship. I don't see why anyone would "look down" on them, there's nothing wrong with being fond of your own company.

Doozer, you're talking about relationships like it's a lucky dip. "competing" with girls. "Never being picked". "Never going to happen" - I don't understand why you would feel like you're competing or not being picked. I also find it incredibly hard to believe you are involuntarily single, I think if you relax and stop feeling like you're in a competition, you'll find someone who's right for you if that's what you are after.

Greentopia

seenitall wrote: »

It's just unfortunate that I seemingly have this quirk in the personality whereby I like to choose my guy, rather than him choosing me.)

Well if it's a quirk then I have it too! If I set my sights on a guy I'll see if he'll make the first move. If he doesn't I'll take my chances and engineer a way to chat to him on his own and then I'll know. If a guy is put off by my making the first move then he's not for me anyway.

For some reason I usually (though not always) end up being attracted to younger guys so I think many of them like an older woman taking charge of the situation anyway, or at least that's been my experience

seenitall wrote: »

Some of us, namely those who live some alternative lifestyles, with no families or the big eye of the parish upon us (immigrants, for example) are lucky enough not to have to experience it - living on the margins, as it were, has its advantages!

I agree! I would be all three things you mention -except I'm not an immigrant- but no big eye of the parish on me (I know a few busy bodies who are curious about me I really don't give a toss) as I'm
a. not a local, and
b. I don't take part in GAA or other small town group or sporting activities, nor have I have kids. And I'm not Catholic so no mass on Sunday either.

No matter, I have friends here who are equally outside the norm so it's no problem.

Czarcasm

seenitall wrote: »

So presumptious and, yes, judgmental. Why do you feel you have the right to deny someone giving out about being single on the basis of them being attractive?

I think you're taking me up wrong seenitall, I didn't just mean physically attractive, but personality also, which is why when I used the example I used, they were the most obvious attributes that might come to that person's mind as to why someone might not find them attractive, and they might completely disregard the fact that people might think they're an asshole, because they themselves think they're lovely.

Would you have gone for your wife if you hadn't found her madly, irresistibly attractive? (I certainly hope that the answer is "no".) It's a long life to spend with someone one is not too pushed about, even when one is endowed with with all kinds of attractiveness.

Well of course I was initially attracted to her physically, I'll tell you straight up now I wouldn't have been interested in getting to know more about her if I hadn't been attracted to her. I'll be the first to admit I'm fiercely shallow like that, but I find it hard to converse with people I don't find physically attractive, difficult, but not impossible.

I'm not naive enough either to believe that in another forty years everything will be headed south, but sure it won't be any different for myself, having to keep the pack of viagra in the bedside locker when I want we want to have a bit of fun! Male impotence can be just as bothersome for a guy as a few crows feet, but if we're still making each other laugh by then, that's good enough for me!

For some people a relationship just doesn't happen as easily as for others, or at all, and I think that they (ok, I :pac:) are entitled to a good moan about it once in a while at least.

Ah of course, I mean like I said to Doozer, I didn't mean to come off as a hard ass about it, and I acknowledged already that for some people it appears to happen easier than for others, only the other day I had one of my single friends ask me how do I still have a strong marriage after 16 years together. To her it seemed like I made it look easy. I wasn't going to get into a whole discussion about the fact that in 16 years together it's been FAR from easy, as we could've been there all day and tbh I figured we'd better things to talk about! (she almost seemed shocked by the fact that we have sex on average about three times a week "after so long together"... :pac:)

The funniest thing about that post of yours is that, right after the paragraph where you seem to slate some single people for being too picky, you wrote one where you're encouraging them to have high standards.

Ahh you totally picked me up wrong then, I would never discourage anyone from having high standards or being picky, I'm a right picky bastard myself, and manys a WTF moment I've had when my newly non-single friends have introduced me to their new squeezes as I've thought they could do better, but often times what I think, and what they think, are two very different things, and never the twain shall meet, but as long as they're happy, that's all that matters more to me than what they think of my opinion!

seenitall

Apologies for picking you up wrong then, Czarcasm.

@ Greentopia: whatever works, you know. However, I see the first move as actually verbalising the attraction. There have been sooooo many situations where a guy will flirt (lots of smiling, lots of prolonged eye contact, telling body language etc.) but will not go any further than that, so then I am left with this irresistible wish to take initiative instead (ask him out). Perhaps I should learn to resist that wish more often, cos as I said, it's not really working for me.

Re: the younger guys, yes! I think you're onto something there, they definitely seem to be more interested and engaged. I can only hope I meet one who takes my fancy at some point!

AK333

dd972 wrote: »

There are people who are simply not 'relationship people' or 'marriage people', what happens naturally and effortlessly for the bulk of humanity doesn't materialise for them, it's usually down to quirks of personality and the lack of some kind of 'X factor' for want of a better description that means they can't cut it in this realm of life.

Statistically there probably is 'someone for everyone', but what if that someone is walking around in Reykjavik or Toulouse and they're never going to bump into them?

The lyrics to 'that's how people grow up' by Morrissey sum it all up well.

Yep, don't be sad for me and I don't think I'm wierd. Was married, separated by choice, and thoroughly enjoying my life. Honestly, I think I'm too selfish to have to think of someone else and I know lots of married people who are pure miserable and I don't envy them.