DCM 2013: Mentored Novices Thread......Take 2

KillianByrne

career_move wrote: »

....people only slow drastically in the last 6 miles if they ran too aggressively early on or if they hadn't done enough/consistent mileage/long slow runs

Thats me - trained too fast, and started too fast in the race - decidedly rubbish last 6 miles (and more!)

KillianByrne

...and despite completing 2 marathons, I still consider myself a novice - I can offer insight on some things but the reason I'm floating around here is that there are plenty of contributors (those that have completed 26.2 and those that haven't) I can learn from. Someone going out for their first LSR can have info that I could use. If you have something to say, then say it, dont be shy.

Dilbert75

Hope this works...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/946996_557605587611144_1267830057_n.jpg

tenreds

Ososlo wrote: »

yes but within reason, for me anyway. Yes I am worried about time, but not a really specific time, but I don't see what's wrong with having a time in mind, even for a novice. I'm training very hard for this since I started at the beginning of the year and putting in 40+ miles a week 20 weeks away from my goal race this year. Yes I would expect to slow the more tired I get towards the end but if I thought now that my pace would go out the window from 20 miles or so I would probably hang up my runners now! I do completely understand though that a novice is in unknown territory at that point so factors that are out of your control may mess things up completely for you but if one tries to be prepared for everything possible that is under your control then surely there's a fairly good chance of a strong finish if one has a realistic goal and paces really well from mile 1 and most importantly, trains sensibly?

If you are doing 40+ miles already and you can push that up to 50 or 55 you will enjoy your first marathon,just remember to run the first half with your head and the second with your heart.If you pace yourself right you can finish strong,I ran my first one last week and my last mile was my fastest.

dechol

One thing to remember is that there are pacers in dcm. I ran with five hour pacers last yr and my last three miles were my quickest. If you have a realistic idea of your marathon pace, running with a pacer can be great. I think for novices in particular it takes away all the mental calculations of miles and pace. I know by mile twenty I was getting confused about how far was left, whether I was on target etc even though the pacers were beside me! My mind went to mush. Enjoying the thread BTW.

rainbow kirby

KillianByrne wrote: »

...and despite completing 2 marathons, I still consider myself a novice - I can offer insight on some things but the reason I'm floating around here is that there are plenty of contributors (those that have completed 26.2 and those that haven't) I can learn from. Someone going out for their first LSR can have info that I could use. If you have something to say, then say it, dont be shy.

I've completed 3, but if I do one again it will be almost like doing it as a novice again as my back injury last year pretty much caused a hard reset of my fitness levels... such is life though!

Nappy

Hi guys,

I've convinced a mate to do DCM with me so we will both be tackling career move's training plan. I like to go to the Marley parkrun on a Saturday. Should I scrap the parkrun for marathon training as it will disturb my lsr runs? Or could I run it at an easy pace and complete the lsr afterwards?

Im doing my first sprint triathlon next week to set me up nicely for marathon training.

Happy runnings!

Ososlo

tenreds wrote: »

If you are doing 40+ miles already and you can push that up to 50 or 55 you will enjoy your first marathon,just remember to run the first half with your head and the second with your heart.If you pace yourself right you can finish strong,I ran my first one last week and my last mile was my fastest.

absolutely, looking forward to pushing the mileage up another notch over the coming months albeit gradually. It's encouraging to hear of your extremely strong finish as a novice Congrats on your first!

career_move

Nappy wrote: »

Hi guys,

I've convinced a mate to do DCM with me so we will both be tackling career move's training plan. I like to go to the Marley parkrun on a Saturday. Should I scrap the parkrun for marathon training as it will disturb my lsr runs? Or could I run it at an easy pace and complete the lsr afterwards?

Im doing my first sprint triathlon next week to set me up nicely for marathon training.

Happy runnings!

I wouldn't do the 5k in Marley on a regular basis once you start marathon training. I would imagine it would be hard to run it easy enough when the adrenaline gets going. The lsr is the most important part of marathon training and I would focus on that

AlsoRan

career_move wrote: »

Guys I meant to remind everyone about how common and debilitating iron deficiency is in runners (esp female) and to suggest that it might be worthwhile getting a blood test done before you start serious training. This is a fantastic post from Rolex on the subject

Very valid point. I got blood tests done last week to check out the joint problems I've been having and they highlighted apart from high cholesterol(:( ) that I have low iron. It can lead to heavy legs, lack of energy, pins and needles in your hands and chest pains when you're exercising. Re tablets, as some of you were querying this, they vary from 12.99 for a month down to 7.99 and the cheapo Ferrograd ones which I'm on now for around 3.50. A cheap fix for hopefully a boost of energy!

RedRunner

Dilbert75 wrote: »

The way I'm reading Zooming's post is that it can be difficult for novices to judge their pace and, through that or something else, it shouldn't be unexpected if the pace drops off in the final miles for some unforeseen reason. I agree that that's the case but if the preparation and tactics are ok then it should be possible to run an even pace throughout.

I guess the other thing is that we're all racing, just not against the same opposition. Some of us will race the clock; some will choose sub 3, sub 4, sub 5 or whatever. Some of us will race against the distance, i.e. to finish. It doesn't matter a jot. We're all racing something.

What I got from last year's novice thread, and what each of you will hopefully get here, is support and advice to help you win YOUR race, whatever it is.

Hear Hear!. Actually I see a bit of truth in both what Zooming and Ososlo are saying. Speaking just from my own experience (not theory) I ran two marathons DCM11 and DCM12. In both of them I slowed drastically after 20 miles and in both I kept an even pace up to 20 miles. For DCM11 I just didnt follow a proper plan and for DCM12 I got injured in middle of plan which meant I didnt get enough miles in.However I did do 2 x 20milers in training. The point is that it is possible to keep an even and sensible pace and still slow down in last 6 miles, but this is most likely due to lack of endurance and it is in training that you fix this before it happens on race day. Plus there will be race day factors to contend with like not feeling well,last minute niggles etc, weather conditions that could influence. So my advice is stick to CMs plan as rigidly as possible and you'll be alright. I've not followed her advice before to my peril!

pconn062

pconn062 wrote: »

So novice =======> slow and unambitious? You know your first marathon doesn't have to be about "just getting around", it's perfectly fine to set an aggressive target so long as you train properly. And we wonder why standards are slipping.

Apologies Ososlo, meant to quote zooming's post when I wrote this, not yours.

Runchick

career_move wrote: »

Guys I meant to remind everyone about how common and debilitating iron deficiency is in runners (esp female) and to suggest that it might be worthwhile getting a blood test done before you start serious training. This is a fantastic post from Rolex on the subject

Great advice c_m and just to add my recent experience, I had bloods done a few weeks ago and was expecting iron to be low as I don't eat any red meat but the results showed iron levels to be fine, however I am quite deficient in other nutrients. Glad I know this now and can work on resolving it. I was half tempted before to just start taking an iron supplement as I assumed this was necessary but turns out not to be the case. I'll be taking a multivit supplement from now on. Don't underestimate how much distance running uses up your energy stores. I eat a healthy, balanced diet but obviously this is not enough and something to improve on more if I want to continue running marathons.

I have been 'flat' in terms of running since Limerick marathon a month ago, kept running regardless and have just become more run down. The bloods tell the story and I think getting them done is a wise move, I will definitely be doing this more regularly from now on.

Ososlo

Lovely very very slow 14 miles just done. Longest distance to date but feel good after it. Could have done another few miles if I HAD to but was very happy to finish all the same. Don't underestimate the amount of extra effort required running in the heat if you're not used to it. My heart rate was the same as my lsr last week but my pace was almost a minute a mile slower than last week. It was seriously hot out there and the sweat was pouring off me from the first mile. Not concerned about pace at all for this one. Goal was to finish comfortably as I'm very bad with heat and usually avoid walking in it, let alone running:o
Enjoy the last few days of the hot weather training everyone as it's all to be back to normal next week

shortstuff!

14miles, well done Ososlo! Your doing great:)

My left calve is giving me a bit of trouble so went for a cycle Thurs, rest day Friday, did a bit of swimming today. Think I'll wait and see how my calve is in the morning before deciding on this weeks LSR, will cycle instead if it's not 100%.

Ososlo

shortstuff! wrote: »

14miles, well done Ososlo! Your doing great:)

My left calve is giving me a bit of trouble so went for a cycle Thurs, rest day Friday, did a bit of swimming today. Think I'll wait and see how my calve is in the morning before deciding on this weeks LSR, will cycle instead if it's not 100%.

Thanks!
great you have other ways of keeping the fitness up when you can't run. Sounds like you've had a very active few days despite no running! Good call not doing the lsr unless completely happy with the calf. just not worth it in the long (slow!) run

Laois_Man

shortstuff! wrote: »

My left calve is giving me a bit of trouble.

As you may have seen a couple of pages back, I've been having the exact same issue since Thursday. Been doing some pilates since and replaced my planned 10 mile lsr today with a very slow 3 miles and stretched the hell out of that calf at the end. Seems to have helped loads and I fully expect to get that lsr in tomorrow evening.

Nappy

20 miles on the legs this week and picked up a 5K PB at the parkrun. Great week for running, I hope this sun hangs around and my skin stops peeling!

@Ososlo: Your mileage is quite impressive, are you hoping to increase that much more before October? You could probably run a marathon in a month.

skeleton_boy

Hoping to join the novices class of '13. Looks like I've started getting the legs moving again just in time.

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
- Ballybunnion 10K 2011 - 50.08
•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
- No
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
- Currently 3, 3 and a half mile runs mid-week. 5.3 mile LSR at the weekend
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?
- Want to finish sub 4hrs
- My dream finish time is sub 3h45min
•How many days a week can you train ?
- I can put in 5 days
•Why are you running this marathon ?
-I've been running for fitness for 2 years now on and off. Always wanted to run a marathon but was never consistent enough with my runs and lost interest each time. Now I've finished college I have the time to really commit to a plan.

Ososlo

Nappy wrote: »

20 miles on the legs this week and picked up a 5K PB at the parkrun. Great week for running, I hope this sun hangs around and my skin stops peeling!

@Ososlo: Your mileage is quite impressive, are you hoping to increase that much more before October? You could probably run a marathon in a month.

well done on the pb! Your 5k time was fantastic already from what I remember reading! I can only dream of your times...
Ah yeah I'll step up the mileage over the months but very gradually. Comfortably doing just under 50 now so not sure what I'll peak at but maybe 60ish. Thing is I'd be doing this volume even if I wasn't marathon training as I just love running/jogging! Marathon training just gives me a good excuse to do more Not saying that it'll mean I'll do a better marathon than if I peaked at 40ish miles a week. But sure what's the harm if I'm doing what I love and am not getting injured or showing any symptoms of overtraining. It's all good:)

Nappy

Keep it up! My longest distance to date is 9k so I have some work to put in. I'm enjoying it too!

Laois_Man

Ososlo wrote: »

am not getting injured or showing any symptoms of overtraining. It's all good:)

Just as a matter of interest, what would you consider the first symptoms of overtraining as opposed to injury? Not that I'm there yet myself or anything. Just wondering.

Ososlo

Laois_Man wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, what would you consider the first symptoms of overtraining? Not that I'm there yet myself or anything. Just wondering.

From reading and getting advice I would say elevated resting heart rate (don't know if you measure this) insomnia (if you're not usually prone to this) lack of motivation (for running and other stuff in general) apathy, loss of appetite, fatigue, getting sick a lot. Great chapter on this in Tim Noakes' Lore of Running. Chapter 7 but lots of great stuff on the net also.

fruit pastille

Another Marathon Novice here - hoping to do DCM in October - volunteered giving out goody bags and as a steward last year and was very jealous

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5k - Parkrun June '13 23:34
4 mile - Meet and Train May '13 31:10
5 mile BHAA Dunboyne May '13 39:21
10k BHAA K Club May '13 49:52
10 mile Race Series '12 1:31:07
1/2 marathon Cork City half June'12 2:02:29
•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
- No
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
It really varies - 2 sessions with club about 5.5 miles each time to include speed and hill training. parkrun 5k on a saturday and a Long Run on Thursday or Sunday (anything form 8 - 12 miles). Could get another 4 miler in there as well some weeks
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?
- Just want to finish. Would love sub 4hrs but not running for time
•How many days a week can you train ?
- 4-5 days
•Why are you running this marathon ?
It's the next challenge I suppose, I've done 3 half marathons and looking forward to trying something new

shortstuff!

Wow 50miles, don't know where Id even find the hours for that sorta mileage, fair play to ya! Would be interested in seeing a breakdown of your typical week if you wouldn't mind sharing?

Calves still not right this morning but a lot better so stuck with a 50k cycle and nice bit of stretching afterwards. Will do a 3mile tomorrow to see how it is! Physio i it's not right I think, a measly 6miles for the week:(

Mr Slow

Ososlo wrote: »

From reading and getting advice I would say elevated resting heart rate (don't know if you measure this) insomnia (if you're not usually prone to this) lack of motivation (for running and other stuff in general) apathy, loss of appetite, fatigue, getting sick a lot. Great chapter on this in Tim Noakes' Lore of Running. Chapter 7 but lots of great stuff on the net also.

Spot on but it comes on you so gradually you can miss the signs and put it down to 'training tiredness' it's a funny one in the least humourous way, L-Glutamine is great to give you an extra cushion but keep a wary eye out. I missed the signs training for DCM 2011 and am only now starting to make my way back. The key is to recover and rest properly, there's no such thing as too hard a workout but push too hard without having recovered properly from before and you'll pay a hefty price and not just in your running.:(

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Ososlo

shortstuff! wrote: »

Wow 50miles, don't know where Id even find the hours for that sorta mileage, fair play to ya! Would be interested in seeing a breakdown of your typical week if you wouldn't mind sharing?

Calves still not right this morning but a lot better so stuck with a 50k cycle and nice bit of stretching afterwards. Will do a 3mile tomorrow to see how it is! Physio i it's not right I think, a measly 6miles for the week:(

defo get to the physio to get it checked. Now is the time to be sorting this stuff out. It could be something that'll be easily sorted with some treatment/exercises.

I work a lot of my own hours from home so have the flexibility to get out when I want so running fits in perfectly to my lifestyle. I find it the perfect way to de-stress.
This week I did the following:

Monday - 4(ish) miles am 4(ish) miles pm
Tues - 5 am 5 pm
Thurs - 8+
Fri - 4
Sat - 14
Sun - 4

fruit pastille

Have just spent the last hour reading over 46 pages of posts on this thread. Some fantastic advice so thanks to all .

Have downloaded some training plans and mulling over which one to use. Have been running for about 2 years now so wondering if a 20 week plan is the best or will I survive on an 18 or 16 week one. I can run 10 miles easy enough and have been putting in 20-25 miles a week for the last 6 months.

Laois_Man

Another late LSR. Gettin to love my late LSR's.

Never ran 10 miles before in my life but 10 miles done tonight - so 26.8 miles in the bag this week.

Think I might have a lighter week this week and have a bash at that Kerry Head half marathon next Sunday before the plan starts a week later. I think registration closes on Wednesday so I'll see how the next couple of days go.

ahnowbrowncow

Just checked my garmin calendar and I've only ran 42km in the last 6 weeks since the samsung race. I knew I wouldn't get much running done in May but I didn't think it'd be that low. And looking at Ososlo's mileage is making me feel bad, very impressive mileage.

I'd say I've lost a good bit of fitness so I'll have to pull up my socks because it's less than 3 weeks until the Dublin race series starts. Has everyone signed up for it?