Good Friday v's going for a pint

yeppydeppy

I'm still waiting for a response from my 3 TDs. Mind you I think they just ignore me now. I may have been a little scathing in previous emails.

Dave!

I got a reply from Seán Crowe (SF) a couple of days after emailing, and then just yesterday Eamon Maloney (Lab) got back to me!

Pretty dull stuff from Seán Crowe. Eamon Maloney's was more thoughtful. He seems genuinely interested in secularism. However he pretty much says that the status quo is grand. Oh well.

David a chara,

Thank you for your e-mail.

My belief, and Sinn Féin's policy, is that there should be a total separation between church and state. In order for a health multi-cultural society to operate no religion should primacy in any factor of state decision making or policy. Additionally everybody must have the right to have his/her religious or non-religious beliefs respected and not to be discriminated against, on any basis, due to these beliefs.

Sinn Féin, and I, also advocate for a secular public schooling system.

I believe that anybody in Ireland who holds religious beliefs should be allowed to celebrate the major events of their religion without prejudice. The issue you raise of religious holidays is an interesting one and I agree that religion is not only the reason why we should have or need public holidays.

If you have any other questions or queries please don't hesitate to contact me.

Is mise le meas,
Seán Crowe TD (Dublin South West)

Dear David,

Many thanks for your interesting email.

In my two years in Dáil Éireann I have received hundreds of emails and letters on secularism. Virtually all of them were opposed to secularism, so it is uplifting to get the occasional email in support of the separation of church and state.

One of the first campaigns I was involved in was the launch of the journal "Church and State" in 1973, not a very popular journal with the bookshops of Ireland. We decided to set up a stall outside the GPO each Saturday to sell it. You were guaranteed to get spat at or a more civilised verbal abuse session from someone who took religion very seriously but all part of a changing Ireland - a very slow changing Ireland.

As regards your mention of " religious holidays" and the prohibition of alcohol, do Irish people use the term "religious holiday" any longer? I think the answer is no or very few.

I was one of the very many who was shopping in the Square on "Good Friday", not much sign of a religious day. The term Bank Holiday has replaced religious holiday.

Yes, I agree with you that the no sale of alcohol has its origins within religion but would you not agree that it has become trendy to drink with your family or friends on "this Friday". No bad thing.

In effect alcohol now dominates the "Good Friday" not a "God". People plan the day to do their drinking and eating, not fasting and praying. Is it not a case of history repeating itself

The Christians over the past two thousand years have stolen the old pagan festival days.

In today's Ireland the non-believers have embraced what were religious holidays and converted them into civil or bank holidays.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Eamonn Maloney T.D.

Hotblack Desiato

Dave! wrote: »

I got a reply from Seán Crowe (SF) a couple of days after emailing, and then just yesterday Eamon Maloney (Lab) got back to me!

Pretty dull stuff from Seán Crowe. Eamon Maloney's was more thoughtful. He seems genuinely interested in secularism. However he pretty much says that the status quo is grand. Oh well.

OK. Here goes...

My belief, and Sinn Féin's policy, is that there should be a total separation between church and state. In order for a health multi-cultural society to operate no religion should primacy in any factor of state decision making or policy.

Does the bolded sentence fail English? Unpossible!

Additionally everybody must have the right to have his/her religious or non-religious beliefs respected and not to be discriminated against, on any basis, due to these beliefs.

Nope. Everyone having the right to enforce everyone else to respect their batty beliefs leads only to craziness.

Sinn Féin, and I, also advocate for a secular public schooling system.

Precious little sign of that south of the border. They play the catholic card whenever it suits them.

I believe that anybody in Ireland who holds religious beliefs should be allowed to celebrate the major events of their religion without prejudice. The issue you raise of religious holidays is an interesting one and I agree that religion is not only the reason why we should have or need public holidays.

:rolleyes: clearly he has no idea, pagans worshipped the movement of the sun (with bloody good reason, as their lives depended upon it) and christianity just stole the pagan festivals.

Next up:

In my two years in Dáil Éireann I have received hundreds of emails and letters on secularism. Virtually all of them were opposed to secularism, so it is uplifting to get the occasional email in support of the separation of church and state.

Good so far...

Yes, I agree with you that the no sale of alcohol has its origins within religion but would you not agree that it has become trendy to drink with your family or friends on "this Friday". No bad thing.

Yes it IS a bad thing because it uses the canards of a particular religion to diminish the freedom of all citizens. I don't think there's a single politician in this country who actually understands the concept of freedom, and is happy for citizens to have as much freedom as possible (shure what'd dey do with it?)

Fail x 2.

robindch

Dave! wrote: »

Eamon Maloney's was more thoughtful.

Excellent reply indeed.

Dave!

Not sure whether to reply to him or not... I would like to clarify a couple of things, and push him a bit! But then I don't want to be hassling him. But then, he's not a rockstar or somethin - he's a TD that I helped get into office! And he's a fooking backbencher, what else should be spend his days doin?!

UDP

Dave! wrote: »

Not sure whether to reply to him or not... I would like to clarify a couple of things, and push him a bit! But then I don't want to be hassling him. But then, he's not a rockstar or somethin - he's a TD that I helped get into office! And he's a fooking backbencher, what else should be spend his days doin?!

My problem with his reply is that he is going with the what harm?/sure people use it for good now approach.

Bannasidhe

Dave! wrote: »

Not sure whether to reply to him or not... I would like to clarify a couple of things, and push him a bit! But then I don't want to be hassling him. But then, he's not a rockstar or somethin - he's a TD that I helped get into office! And he's a fooking backbencher, what else should be spend his days doin?!

Claiming expenses?

recedite

Maloney has a good point. Using the day for feasting, drinking and shopping is a good way to ridicule religion. Ridicule is a good way to oppose something. Trying to ban anything allows the supporters to play the persecution card, and is a sure way to get sympathy for their cause.

On the other hand, I would be in favour of fixing the date of the public holiday, but I'm not sure if it could still be called Easter, as it would end up being a week or two later than the lunar generated date in some years. We should have a week off to celebrate Mayday instead, and let that gradually eclipse :pac: Easter.

UDP

Dear xxxxx,

Please see the reply received from Minister Shatter below. I trust this is of assistance. I will keep you updated on the bill as it progresses.

Kind regards,
xxxxx

xxxxxx
Personal Assistant to Leo Varadkar TD
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport


Mr Leo Varadkar T.D.
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport MinisterConstituency@dttas.ie


25 April 2013

Dear Leo

I refer to your e-mail dated 9 April 2013 on behalf of your constituent xxxxxxx regarding his views on the ban of alcohol sales on Good Friday.

The position is that the Government Legislation Programme provides for publication of the Sale of Alcohol Bill. It is intended that the Bill will modernise the law relating to the sale, supply and consumption of alcohol in licensed premises and registered clubs, including the statutory provisions relating to times when alcohol may be sold, by repealing the Licensing Acts 1833 to 2011 and the Registration of Clubs Acts 1904 to 2008 and replacing them with streamlined and updated provisions. The statutory provisions restricting the sale of alcohol on Good Friday and Christmas Day, which have historical origins, will be examined in that context.

Yours sincerely


___________________
Alan Shatter T.D.
Minister for Justice, Equality and
Defence

This is the first time I have engaged with a public representative and I must say fair play to Leo Varadkar and his team for not only answering me rather than just fobbing me off but for updating me at a later date. I am a little concerned by Alan Shatters answer regarding the restrictions of sale being of "historical origins" rather than religious origins.

Galvasean

"Historical origins"? EVERYTHING has historical origins...

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

"Historical origins"? EVERYTHING has historical origins...

Bet it was perfidious Albion what did it.

800 years of dry Good Fridays (:P) that's what the h'English did for us. :mad:

Animord

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Bet it was perfidious Albion what did it.

800 years of dry Good Fridays (:P) that's what the h'English did for us. :mad:

But the English were quite keen for us to be less Rome-centric, weren't they? If only we'd listened we'd have a FOUR day Easter weekend with the freedom to buy drink any day we liked...:pac:

yeppydeppy

This is what I find scary:

"In my two years in Dáil Éireann I have received hundreds of emails and letters on secularism. Virtually all of them were opposed to secularism, so it is uplifting to get the occasional email in support of the separation of church and state."

He has been in the Dáil two years and most of the communication he's getting is from religious types? I can only assume they are more vocal or maybe it's their age profile: they would be older and more likely to be retired and so have the time not only to be bothering god but to contact their TD's and anyone else who'll listen?

yeppydeppy

Galvasean wrote: »

"Historical origins"? EVERYTHING has historical origins...

Yep, but it sounds like they are going to use that to keep us in our place on christmas day and good Friday.
Wait 'till ye see, in a couple of years they'll be changing it all again 'cause they'll have realised the trouble and problems that are being created by people drinking at home.