Sex Education

Meangadh

meeeeh wrote: »

Example: the other day our four year asked me what sky is and I responded it's where the clouds are. My partner's response was all about sun shinning on the sea and reflecting into O3 level yadda, yadda, yadda. His reply was completely useless to a four years old but mine would be useless to 14 years old.

School should teach children for life and not everybody will use integrals but huge majority will have sex.

I agree school should teach children for life, but should parents not teach their children for life too? I'm a geography teacher and even I'd struggle to explain what the sky is. It's not my area of expertise. So, if a student or my own child asked me, I would sit down with them and look it up online or find a book about it and go through it with them. A parent should be able to do this just as well as a teacher can- regardless of whether the question be about the sky or about sex. I don't see why sex ed needs to be any different to any other question a child comes home with.

Morag

Meangadh wrote: »

I don't know about that at all, I'm not involved in any of the subjects where sex ed is taught and bar parent teacher meetings for my subjects I wouldn't have much dealings with parents (I'm a secondary teacher, by and large primary teachers would have more contact with parents).

It's something I'd be recommending to the teachers who are involved in these areas though. But really it should be the HSE who are contacting parents and not the schools when it comes to these programmes, as they are created by the HSE and not the Department of Education. Obviously there needs to be cross-department co-operation on this one, but I definitely think the education system gets bashed far more when it comes to sex ed, and the department of health is rarely mentioned!

Actually they were created by the HSE with the dept of education, dept of health, national parents' councils and the national youth council.

But due to the Ethos of most school they were not rolled out and schools have to choose to promote them to parents. There are leaflets and posters about them in dr offices and in health clinics but the best way to get the info to parents is restricted and teachers and parents have to approach admin in school and Board of Management about them.

Morag

Meangadh wrote: »

I agree school should teach children for life, but should parents not teach their children for life too? I'm a geography teacher and even I'd struggle to explain what the sky is. It's not my area of expertise. So, if a student or my own child asked me, I would sit down with them and look it up online or find a book about it and go through it with them. A parent should be able to do this just as well as a teacher can- regardless of whether the question be about the sky or about sex. I don't see why sex ed needs to be any different to any other question a child comes home with.

Cos most people can not talk about sex and sexuality in an objective manner, it's not easy and they fear dealing with it in a subjective way.

shalalala

Sorry if I am repeating some other points here but here it goes.

I was educated (bar 5th and 6th year) in England. In Primary school we were told about periods, wet dreams etc.

In biology then (it was not an elective) at about 3rd year we were shown how to put condoms on (dildo and all). We were told about the enjoyment and dangers of sex and were given proper information about STDs/STIs and contraception.

Then I moved over here. In 5th and 6th year the only sex education we got was in the elective biology, we were taught abstinence. It even said that in the text book! And that was it! I was the only female virgin in the class.

My point of this rant is that I didn't realise what the lack of sex ed in this country would do to me. I was lied to and told that "I felt fine" and that a lot of info about sexual health is just designed to scare you. And this was from some very sexually active people. I have also come across a lot of people that are too scared to ask about partners sexual health. As if it is something that should not be spoken about and would be uncool.

Sex ed should be given in the home first and foremost. My Mam was always open and helpful and I will thank her a lot for it. But then the info should come from a reliable source, in schools where you get information with peers in a safe environment.

Websites are okay to provide information but google "sex" and you don't get sex ed. You get porn. You don't want kids learning about sex from porn. That could lead to all kinds of trouble. One click from this website partially funded by the HSE could lead a teenager to images and information that isn't impartial and some of it is plain scary.

Rant over

LittleBook

Meangadh wrote: »

I do have a really bit issue with how every time something goes wrong in society, the education system is blamed.

It bugs me especially because I'm a teacher, so fair enough if I seem a bit emphatic about it.

Can I just say, I have huge respect for teachers in Ireland but the education system is flawed. In fact, I have extra respect for teachers because the system is so flawed.

But you have to admit, the best place for standardised education on any subject is at school.

Meangadh wrote: »

But it BUGS me that it seems parents don't have to do any of this, it always falls back on the teachers. Parents HAVE to take responsibility- THEY are the primary care givers, the people who should be the first port of call for any questions kids have.

I agree, as I've said earlier, that parents should be the primary source of sex and sexual health education but that's simply not available to a lot of children.

Plus, bear in mind that, even if it is available, the last person many children want to ask explicit questions about sex is a parent!

Meangadh wrote: »

bar parent teacher meetings for my subjects I wouldn't have much dealings with parents

:pac: When I read "subjects" for a second I thought you were referring to your pupils

Das Kitty

I'm trying to remember what sex-ed we got in school. I'm 32.

Primary School -- Nothing.

Secondary School --
We had a Christian Brother come in and preach abstinence in about 4th year.
We had my friend's ubercatholic parents come in and tell us about abstinence and after we were married, the withdrawal method. (This was funny because my friend is one of 6 closely spaced kids)

Biology class we did human reproduction in which the teacher blused her way though the penis diagram. I think it possibly had more to do with the fact that she was dating another teacher and she knew she was just providing fodder.

Home -- My mother told me about periods about 4 months before mine arrived. She did a decent job, I have to say. She didn't tell me anything further though, other than "don't get pregnant." It would have been nice to have been told how not to.

So in reality I got all my sex ed from Just 17 magazine. They broached lots of subjects in a very open and nonjudgemental manner. I remember they brought out a "contraception" issue in 1995 and the Irish government allowed its sale on the provision the buyer was 16. I still remember where I bought it and lying about my age. To this day, it is still the most thorough and enlightening set of articles I have read on contraception and options.

Another thing that magazine did at the time was not to ignore the emotional aspects of growing up and sex. Consent was a big issue in it, which was wonderful.

Of my friends, I was definitely the one who had the most knowledge on sex and sexuality. I was curious and not embarassed to be. I was also the last of my friends to enter into any sort of sexual activity. I had the knowledge and I knew that I hadn't met anyone yet that I'd like to do anything like that with (apart from me :P ).

I think I said this on this forum before, but I met back with some of my old school friends recently and one of them is a newly-wed. I don't know how the subject came up, but she said that she's "never really looked" at her husband's penis. This is where not talking about sex leads, women in their thirties embarassed to look at their husbands' genitals! Obviously that's at the benign end of the scale of outcomes.

Larianne

Das Kitty wrote: »

I think I said this on this forum before, but I met back with some of my old school friends recently and one of them is a newly-wed. I don't know how the subject came up, but she said that she's "never really looked" at her husband's penis. This is where not talking about sex leads, women in their thirties embarassed to look at their husbands' genitals! Obviously that's at the benign end of the scale of outcomes.

How very sad, both for her and her husband.

clairefontaine

The department of ed needs to grow up. Serious immaturity.

It's the human body. Big wow.

Lyaiera

clairefontaine wrote: »

The department of ed needs to grow up. Serious immaturity.

It's the human body. Big wow.

And that's the problem, because for most teenagers it's, "THE HUMAN BODY? WOOOOW!"

shalalala

Lyaiera wrote: »

And that's the problem, because for most teenagers it's, "THE HUMAN BODY? WOOOOW!"

But why is their attitude like that? Because it hasn't been discussed openly. Maturity on a topic comes from information. I think that people are afraid that if they discuss sex then it will encourage teenagers to have it! I really do not understand that thought process.

clairefontaine

Lyaiera wrote: »

And that's the problem, because for most teenagers it's, "THE HUMAN BODY? WOOOOW!"

Yes but teacher can demand maturity.

But then again they are still teaching that Mary was a virgin so do you really want them to take control of human sexuality?

I had sex ed in Catholic school, very science and health based but in this school they referred to Mary as "the so called Virgin."

Morag

clairefontaine wrote: »

The department of ed needs to grow up. Serious immaturity.

It's the human body. Big wow.

The dept of education has the program the problem is they way too many of our schools which the state pays for the running of and pays for the teachers in are controled by the Roman Catholic Church or are VEC schools with a Catholic Ethos and so the progam is not taught.

clairefontaine

Morag wrote: »

The dept of education has the program the problem is they way too many of our schools which the state pays for the running of and pays for the teachers in are controled by the Roman Catholic Church or are VEC schools with a Catholic Ethos and so the progam is not taught.

Honestly I think that's bull****. I went to Catholic school and we had sex ed. [Not in Ireland]. They are using excuses because they are too embarrassed and self concious to do it.

shalalala

I think that the best way to do it would not be for teachers to give it. Have a visitor in, a specialist that doesn't know the pupils who is open to answering any and all questions. Not only should they teach the biology but I figure they should inform pupils of religious teachings of all religions, not to preach but to inform. And also healthy attitudes to sex, teach girls and boys that sex is for pleasure and making babies. It is not to validate yourself or to fix a relationship.

Larianne

clairefontaine wrote: »

Honestly I think that's bull****. I went to Catholic school and we had sex ed. [Not in Ireland]. They are using excuses because they are too embarrassed and self concious to do it.

Yeah, I'm not so sure it's all to do with the Catholic religion. I think people can be embarrassed about talking about sex. I recently was researching healthcare professionals attitudes about talking to patients about sexual issues and very surprisingly, a lot will not bring up the subject with patients who are more likely to experience sexually difficulties (say after a heart attack) and will wait for the patient to broach the subject. Their reasons were lack of awareness, lack of knowledge on the subject and fear of embarrassment or offending the patient. These were healthcare professionals - doctors, nurses etc. This was research done in Ireland, but also in the States. (When patients were questioned on whether they wanted sex information, must said they did.) So I don't see how this is anyway different to the teaching profession or parents.

I've talked so much to others about my research that it doesn't phase me at all now. I think if people inform themselves of the information and actually just talk about it, the fear/embarrassment will go away.

tinyk68

I agree that having a visitor to do it is a great idea. My daughter is in 5th year and recently a mid-wife came into school to give them a talk. It was very frank and included putting a condom on a fake penis. She approached the subject with humour and the girls really enjoyed the talk. They were delighted that it wasn't a teacher who gave it because it would have been too cringworthy. I also feel they learned a lot about good sexual health behaviour from the talk and, in my opinion, they are at the perfect age (16/17) for this. Now is when a lot of them begin to really explore their sexuality and they need all the guidance they can get. Ignorance won't stop them having sex, it will just stop them doing it safely.

shalalala

tinyk68 wrote: »

I agree that having a visitor to do it is a great idea. My daughter is in 5th year and recently a mid-wife came into school to give them a talk. It was very frank and included putting a condom on a fake penis. She approached the subject with humour and the girls really enjoyed the talk. They were delighted that it wasn't a teacher who gave it because it would have been too cringworthy. I also feel they learned a lot about good sexual health behaviour from the talk and, in my opinion, they are at the perfect age (16/17) for this. Now is when a lot of them begin to really explore their sexuality and they need all the guidance they can get. Ignorance won't stop them having sex, it will just stop them doing it safely.

While I agree with most of what you said. I would say that they are about 2 years too late for the information. And I would have thought that a sex psychologist/therapist would have been better suited.

wolfpawnat

tinyk68 wrote: »

I agree that having a visitor to do it is a great idea. My daughter is in 5th year and recently a mid-wife came into school to give them a talk. It was very frank and included putting a condom on a fake penis. She approached the subject with humour and the girls really enjoyed the talk. They were delighted that it wasn't a teacher who gave it because it would have been too cringworthy. I also feel they learned a lot about good sexual health behaviour from the talk and, in my opinion, they are at the perfect age (16/17) for this. Now is when a lot of them begin to really explore their sexuality and they need all the guidance they can get. Ignorance won't stop them having sex, it will just stop them doing it safely.

But with 14 and 15 year olds attending the maternity hospitals, I dare say 16/17 is far too late. The MAP is available to 11 year olds on request from GP's who have had to deal with girls that young coming in looking for them. Now I am not saying 11 year olds should even be involved in sexual activities, I think 11 is far far too young, but if they are doing it, they need to be safely informed about protection and what not.

Ambersky

How do posters here think young LGBT people should learn about sex. Most of the information I have come across designed for use in schools or with young people has been reproductive based ie how to avoid or how to get pregnant, with some information on STDs.
I think it would be nice if sex education wasnt only available for heterosexuals with occasionally a little tag on, that sometimes men have sex with men and women with women.
LGBT young people need sex education just as much as heterosexual young people. They need information on how do men have sex with men and women with women? Gay people need information on how to take care of their physical and emotional selves but their sex education is usually non existent or you can find just a mention of its existance at the back of some books along with masturbation and sexually transmitted disease.

clairefontaine

Aside from the usual alerts to what is happenning to your body, menstruation, wet dreams, masturbation etc etc protection against stds, there should be stuff on peer pressure and what consent actually means.

wolfpawnat

Ambersky wrote: »

How do posters here think young LGBT people should learn about sex. Most of the information I have come across designed for use in schools or with young people has been reproductive based ie how to avoid or how to get pregnant, with some information on STDs.
I think it would be nice if sex education wasnt only available for heterosexuals with occasionally a little tag on, that sometimes men have sex with men and women with women.
LGBT young people need sex education just as much as heterosexual young people. They need information on how do men have sex with men and women with women? Gay people need information on how to take care of their physical and emotional selves but their sex education is usually non existent or you can find just a mention of its existance at the back of some books along with masturbation and sexually transmitted disease.

I can only imagine what the attempts would do for that. "Men wear condoms and sure the girls can't get pregnant so no need to do that" They wouldn't have a clue. If they can't even deal with the basics, then everything else is too beyond them.

Meangadh

LittleBook wrote: »

But you have to admit, the best place for standardised education on any subject is at school.



I agree, as I've said earlier, that parents should be the primary source of sex and sexual health education but that's simply not available to a lot of children.

Plus, bear in mind that, even if it is available, the last person many children want to ask explicit questions about sex is a parent!



:pac: When I read "subjects" for a second I thought you were referring to your pupils

Haha! No, I don't refer to them as that... although I might start, they'd think it was hilarious!

Just regarding what you said about children feeling uncomfortable asking their parents- I'd imagine most would be uncomfortable asking their teachers too. We see them every day, we know them from 12 years of age til 18/19- they don't want us knowing their business, particularly when it comes to boys or relationships. I get on great with my students, and would probably be one that a lot of them come to if they've something wrong like trouble at home or bullying etc (I dunno is that cos I'm a bit of a softy! Also I suppose cos I'm a relatively young member of staff and I'm female in an all girls' school) and yet I highly doubt any of them would really want to talk about sex with me. The most they'd mention in that area is if they had bad period pains or something,but that's it. That's why I'd agree with what shalalala said about having visitors come in is the best thing. It can be done through the schools, so it is standardised, but not by the schools, so the students are less self conscious.

Obviously in some courses like Biology some sex ed stuff is part and parcel of it, but the rest should come from experts who deal day to day with sexual issues. Very few teachers are even equipped enough to answer a lot of the questions students have. Midwives, doctors, nurses, STI experts, counsellors- these are the people who should be talking to our teenagers and children. Teachers can be there as a back up and support, but I genuinely think students, regardless of their age, would pay far more heed to someone who works in that area from day to day.

Morgase

It's amazing how so many of us seem to have got the bulk of our sex education from the British magazines like Sugar and Bliss.

The bit of sex education I got in school (secondary school only, of course; there was nothing in primary) concentrated on abstinence and various scare tactics like a video of an abortion (which I refused to watch).

As for at home, the word sex wasn't even mentioned!

Larianne

Morgase wrote: »

It's amazing how so many of us seem to have got the bulk of our sex education from the British magazines like Sugar and Bliss.

The bit of sex education I got in school (secondary school only, of course; there was nothing in primary) concentrated on abstinence and various scare tactics like a video of an abortion (which I refused to watch).

As for at home, the word sex wasn't even mentioned!

My mother used to give out to me for buying those magazines! Nothing but filth. Interesting how I turned out okay in the end!

It would be interesting to see if information from say, magazines has an effect on the number of teen pregnancies or STIs etc. Reduce or increase.

fall

I teach SPHE from first to third year and RSE (relationship and sex ed) to senior cycle. I cover a huge range of topics from the biology to how to recognise a relationship that is destructive. There is a great emphasis on developing the language to discuss emotions and feelings and to having the confidence to say when you are uncomfortable in a situation. The discussions and questions show how confused and misinformed teenagers can be. Yes they can find information on the net, but that doesn't meet it is all accurate ( one student wanted to know could all women squirt!, no prizes for guessing where he was getting his info) There are ground rules and no personal questions allowed. A question box allows me to get questions anonymously and to avoid me being put on the spot.

beks101

tinyk68 wrote: »

My daughter is in 5th year and recently a mid-wife came into school to give them a talk. It was very frank and included putting a condom on a fake penis. She approached the subject with humour and the girls really enjoyed the talk. They were delighted that it wasn't a teacher who gave it because it would have been too cringworthy. I also feel they learned a lot about good sexual health behaviour from the talk and, in my opinion, they are at the perfect age (16/17) for this

I initially read this as "my daughter is in 5th class" and I thought "hmm, bit young for the condom talk maybe, but whatever"....!

I agree that 5th year is kind of too old for this, when I was younger I started hearing the rumours and anecdotes and reading the magazines before I even hit adolescence. In 5th year, there were already three pregnant girls in my year.

IME it's at a much younger age that kids garner their information and develop their attitudes about sex - I learned at about 12 that sex was the unmentionable because of how hush hush or downright disapproving the adults around me seemed to be when it cropped up, be it in a movie or as a conversation or whatever. That's the age at which it should be normalized, introduced as a subject that you can talk about openly, given all the info about intercourse and the risks and how you can take responsibility for your own sexual health. As opposed to learning about it through Chinese whispers at school.

WittyKitty1

it's about bloody time!

We got our first 'sex talk' in 6th class of PRIMARY school- it was seriously just the basics and the woman giving the talk seemed rather embarrassed by the giggles coming from the class.

The next one was in 5th year of secondary school but again, that was beyond basic- they'd have thought us more if they handed out a few copies of cosmopolitan.

I think it's about time they put some money into creating a good education system for teens.. that includes more than, condoms and pads. They need to cover STi's, hormones,birth control, and pregnancy. none of which I got any information from our school's talk... sex was skipped over and it went straight to periods and condom application..

Shur, i'm mid 20's and I haven't received a sex talk from the folks yet:rolleyes:

Madam_X

Addle wrote: »

It was very basic. A biology class really.
But it was all we needed.

The rest you figured out for yourself.

Wtf? :eek:

No that's actually not sufficient.

IvyTheTerrible

Larianne wrote: »

My mother used to give out to me for buying those magazines! Nothing but filth. Interesting how I turned out okay in the end!

It would be interesting to see if information from say, magazines has an effect on the number of teen pregnancies or STIs etc. Reduce or increase.

Ha, I had been buying Sugar for a while, mum had a read of it one day and banned it from the house! So I just read it at my friend's house.

I got no sex education from my parents at all, the subject was just not discussed at all. Got the very basic stuff about periods in 6th class from a nun. Then a bit of reproductive biology in 5th year. We were shown the video of a woman giving birth in religion class in 5th year as well I think. That was the sum total of it. If I had not had Sugar to read, I would have known absolutely feck all.

EDIT: My mum tried to give me a talk about safe sex when she found out I moved in with my boyfriend. I was 27. :rolleyes:

WhatNowForUs?

Madam_X wrote: »

Wtf? :eek:

It might be if you are a priest