Buying bitcoins

zulutango

Alb, can you explain more about transaction fees? Am I right in that a transaction can be set up in such a way so as to minimise the fees, but that it's slower. I tried transferring a very small amount of btc from one wallet to another, but the suggested fee was a fair chunk of the overall amount (which was small in any case). When I tried to reduce the fee I got a notification that the transaction might never be verified. Do the btc get lost in that situation? Or do they just not send?

howamidifferent

zulutango wrote: »

Alb, can you explain more about transaction fees? Am I right in that a transaction can be set up in such a way so as to minimise the fees, but that it's slower. I tried transferring a very small amount of btc from one wallet to another, but the suggested fee was a fair chunk of the overall amount (which was small in any case). When I tried to reduce the fee I got a notification that the transaction might never be verified. Do the btc get lost in that situation? Or do they just not send?

HI Zulu,
I sold 1.5BTC last week and set the trasnaction fee to 0. I got the same message as you quote above, but the bitcoin arrived in the correct wallet in under an hour regardless.

alb

Here's how transaction fees work, I need to explain a bit about mining first: when you make a transaction your wallet broadcasts it to the network, it should eventually reach all miners and nodes. Miners gather pending transactions and include them in a block, which confirms them.
- One of the miners will solve a block on average every ten minutes
- Each block can contain up to 1MB of data
- The miner that solves a block gets to keep the fees of all the transactions included in that block.
- transactions vary in data size, depending on how many different addresses the coins being used came from and are going to.

Which transactions get included in a block (and therefore confirmed) is at the total discretion of the miners. Historically miners have generally included transactions with no fee when the pending transactions they have are under the 1MB limit anyway. When they have more transactions pending than will fit in the next block they prioritise those with the highest fees.

Lately bitcoin has been getting busier and there are many times where there is a large (enough to fill many blocks) set of pending transactions. During these times you could be waiting a long time for a zero fee transaction to confirm. This is why there is now a huge scaling debate, bitcoin is hitting its transaction limit more frequently.

zulutango wrote: »

When I tried to reduce the fee I got a notification that the transaction might never be verified. Do the btc get lost in that situation? Or do they just not send?

Bitcoins cannot get lost like this. Either the transaction gets confirmed and they move, or it doesn't and they stay where they were. What can happen though is wallets may be in limbo as they don't know if the transaction will confirm or not, so it may not let you resend those same coins in another transaction until the original one has been 'forgotten'. Some wallets now also support a new feature that lets a transaction be re-broadcast with a higher fee to replace one that isn't getting confirmed, I've never used this feature personally though.

zulutango

Cheers!

So, when all the bitcoins are mined, the miners will still be required to verify transactions?

alb

Yes miners are essential to the system. All bitcoins being mined is 100 years away, but the same concern applies for when the amount of new bitcoins per block drops low enough that there may not be sufficient incentive for sufficient mining power. Personally I think we're at least 8 years away from that being an issue, but if it becomes an issue bitcoin will either need transaction fees to be high enough (in total, not necessarily meaning each user transaction will be expensive) or another solution.

seklly

zulutango wrote: »

So, when all the bitcoins are mined, the miners will still be required to verify transactions?

Miners will still be required to verify transactions on the network so that begs the question of how they remain profitable.

• I think one possibility is that as the block reward decreases (by half every 4 years), the network will hopefully be getting more popular as time goes by and transaction fees will increase to offset the absence of the block reward for miners.
  
• Another would be that Bitcoin becomes so widespread and mining chips so cheap that they are in virtually all network connected devices (phones, TVs, modems etc.) so the mining process becomes much more decentralised than it currently is.

But that's all speculative as nobody can see into the future!

Also I see that you were asking about sending small amounts of bitcoin from one wallet to another, if you're just testing to get a feel for it you could also use the Bitcoin test network (called the Testnet) to try it out. Coins on the Testnet have no monetory value and are just used for test purposes. if on Android you could download the Mycelium Testnet Wallet.

Capt'n Midnight

seklly wrote: »

[*]Another would be that Bitcoin becomes so widespread and mining chips so cheap that they are in virtually all network connected devices (phones, TVs, modems etc.) so the mining process becomes much more decentralised than it currently is.

WTF?

Bitcoin mining is using several hundred MW of electricity at present, and your plan is to use less efficient devices ? The energy costs would be enormous.

A smartphone uses less than a third of a Watt on average. You'd need a billion phones to equal the energy consumption of bitmining. Same is true of a TV on standby. And beside using anything that isn't optimised for bitmining is just a complete waste of electricity.

PrzemoF

It's definitely waste of energy and not a sustainable way to keep bitcoins alive, but it has been done.

"Here’s something we haven’t seen before: security camera recorders hacked and used to mine bitcoin.

The issue was first reported by Johannes Ullrich, an instructor at the SANS Technology Institute — a computer security training organization. Last Friday, he discovered malicious software infecting the Hikvision DVRs used to record video from security cameras. The malware jumps from device to device, trying to infect any other machines it can find on the network. But it also tries to earn a little scratch for its creators by mining bitcoins, a processor-intensive activity that would probably slow down any infected DVR."

https://www.wired.com/2014/04/hikvision/

zulutango

What are your thoughts on the scaling issue?

From what I read there's somewhat of a stalemate in further development of the software underpinning bitcoin, but I don't understand it really.

Whatever about the technical details, what are the possible consequences? Could the stalemate lead to the side-lining of bitcoin and give an impetus to an alternative cryptocurrency?

G.Gershwin

What is driving the price up the last few days? Trading at $830 now

alb

G.Gershwin wrote: »

What is driving the price up the last few days? Trading at $830 now

Nothing new. Some mix of demand outpacing supply and speculation. Anyone's guess how much of each.

makeorbrake

India has taken certain bank notes out of circulation to combat corruption/tax evasion. Funds continue to pour into btc from China. Otherwise, there is some degree of an uptick in confidence that issues surrounding btc's ability to deal with large scale payments may not be an issue going forward.

{^Syntax^}

Just ordered in some mining equipment from China. Bought a few Bitcoins when they were €500 a pop, now they are about €870 on coinbase.com - I think Crypto Currencies is the start of a financial revolution, now is the time to get in, if not already a little late

makeorbrake

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

now is the time to get in, if not already a little late

I'm thinking its a bit late. I was going to go all in and put the rest of my savings in btc 6 months back. I procrastinated and feel it would be much more risky now. That said, I can't complain - I've a nice few quid in btc since a couple of years back.

{^Syntax^}

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm thinking its a bit late. I was going to go all in and put the rest of my savings in btc 6 months back. I procrastinated and feel it would be much more risky now. That said, I can't complain - I've a nice few quid in btc since a couple of years back.

Bought a few myself but only this year - There are still several million BTC left to be mined so going to give it a shot. Could turn into something great or may not but worth a try.

alb

{^Syntax^} wrote: »

Bought a few myself but only this year - There are still several million BTC left to be mined so going to give it a shot. Could turn into something great or may not but worth a try.

If you still can, do yourself a favour and cancel the order. You're not going to be able to mine profitably in Ireland. It's cheaper to buy coins than mine them.

Bitcoin made a new EUR all-time high on kraken today. It has also recently made AUD and GBP all-time highs this week and is really moving faster now. Bit of a retrace today after it broke $900 for a while.

Bloomberg is reporting: "Bitcoin is extending a rally that’s beaten every major currency, stock index and commodity contract in 2016."

{^Syntax^}

alb wrote: »

If you still can, do yourself a favour and cancel the order. You're not going to be able to mine profitably in Ireland. It's cheaper to buy coins than mine them.

Bitcoin made a new EUR all-time high on kraken today. It has also recently made AUD and GBP all-time highs this week and is really moving faster now. Bit of a retrace today after it broke $900 for a while.

Bloomberg is reporting: "Bitcoin is extending a rally that’s beaten every major currency, stock index and commodity contract in 2016."

Already own a few and yes, they're over €870 this morning.

I disagree on not being able to mine profitably - I already have a completely solar powered room

The Duke of Moral Hazard

Hi,

Just wondering if someone can suggest an exchange where I can buy instantaneously? (There's likely may suggestions already however it's a long way back to trawl through all the pages)

I have tried Coinbase but there seems to be a 5 day waiting time for SEPA payments to clear.

Any suggestions on a wallet recommendation would also be welcome. I hear Electrum is good along with other hardware solutions.

Cheers!

pH

The Duke of Moral Hazard wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering if someone can suggest an exchange where I can buy instantaneously? (There's likely may suggestions already however it's a long way back to trawl through all the pages)

I have tried Coinbase but there seems to be a 5 day waiting time for SEPA payments to clear.

Any suggestions on a wallet recommendation would also be welcome. I hear Electrum is good along with other hardware solutions.

Cheers!

Localbitcoins.com facilitate face to face purchases, and have a reasonable security feature that "proves" to you that the seller has actually transferred the bitcoins. However as you'd expect most sellers add a large premium to the price to cover their time.

Another option for credit card purchases is coinmama, not 100% sure if Ireland is covered, and again there's a considerable premium.

seklly

I've only used Coinbase myself, I think they added a feature where you can buy instantly via card, might need to be verified with them though. Some alternatives I've seen are Paxful, Bitquick & Libertyx (I haven't used any of these myself though), you can also use LocalBitcoins to buy in person depending on your location.

Make sure to withdraw to your own wallet after purchase. Copay or Electrum are good options for desktop. Mycelium is quite popular on Android. Hardware wallets like Trezor, Ledger Nano S and KeepKey are recommended.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie

Lads complete noob question here, bought two bitcoin few years back off a mate. My recollection of how we did the transaction is vague to say the least, he was the expert and helped me along. Presumably we used a wallet. Changed laptops several times since, and all I have is the .dat file. Is it just a case of downloading a new wallet to new laptop and uploading the dat file to this? I recall him saying I could do this, for reasons to long to go into I can't ask him about it so not sure who to ask!

Tornando9

You can create an account on https://blockchain.info/ and upload your .dat file.
The bitcoin blockchain is now over 100gb in size so downloading and synching a new wallet will take a day or two depending on your network speed.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote: »

Lads complete noob question here, bought two bitcoin few years back off a mate. My recollection of how we did the transaction is vague to say the least, he was the expert and helped me along. Presumably we used a wallet. Changed laptops several times since, and all I have is the .dat file. Is it just a case of downloading a new wallet to new laptop and uploading the dat file to this? I recall him saying I could do this, for reasons to long to go into I can't ask him about it so not sure who to ask!

Tornando9

I had a few bitcoin from when it dropped to $180 and i trade forex and stocks. I found a website that allows you to trade some selected forex pairs and commodities and you use bitcoin instead of cash. I use my forex trading rules and trade with risk management in place and stoploss.
The site is https://1broker.com/?c=en/action/r&i=2705 and signing up is free.
I have increased my btc holdings with ease. The site is a few years old and i never had any issues with their platform.
Any questions hit me up..

zulutango

Lads, I've a question regarding paper wallets.

If you have a cloud based wallet and you have a paper back up, are you protected from a hack of the cloud based wallet? Or is the paper wallet really only useful if you forget your log on, or your pc gets robbed?

pH

zulutango wrote: »

Lads, I've a question regarding paper wallets.

If you have a cloud based wallet and you have a paper back up, are you protected from a hack of the cloud based wallet? Or is the paper wallet really only useful if you forget your log on, or your pc gets robbed?

A standard bitcoin "wallet" is really just a public/private key pair, yes there are multi-sig wallets out there, but if you're not talking about multi-sig then if someone gets hold of the private key then they have access to the bitcoins. So if the cloud based wallet has access to the bitcoins then having a backup of it will not protect the bitcoins in any way.

That said, you can generate paper based wallet and transfer your bitcoins to it. This is simply just a printout of the key pair, but can be more sophisticated by incorporating QR codes or even another layer of encryption.

This is only really suitable for medium term storage, as to actually use the coins you'll have to "sweep" them back into an online wallet. Also the physical copies of these paper wallets are the only way to access the coins, if you lose the paper wallet somehow then the coins are irrevocably lost forever.

makeorbrake

I'd be curious to hear peoples views on where BTC is headed given the 125% increase in 2016. I've read a number of articles in the past week that suggest that BTC may reach $1500-$3000 equivalency over the coming year. Is that nonsense or is there logic behind it?

In the one sense, I've been very pleased with having (what is to me) a substantial sum invested in BTC since post-Mt.Gox devalutation. That said, back in early summer, I had intended on taking a punt - going all-in and converting my remaining savings (which are on account and earning absolutely nothing at the moment between the low ECB rate and criminal DIRT tax) to bitcoin. I got preoccupied and let it slide - and of course, BTC lifted considerably during that part of the year.

There are some potential pitfalls on the horizon. For one, it's still up in the air as to whether a forking may be necessary for BTC. Secondly, this solution from Intel is being punted to solve the scale issue => https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/the-teechan-solution-scaling-bitcoin-with-trusted-hardware-1482956340

Both of these are potential pitfalls for BTC. In the case of the second one, it could also be a pitfall if ignored by BTC but some other crypto currency takes it up. i.e. if people see the upside in it.

The main issue with that solution is that it rails completely against the essence of BTC - i.e. it's not implausible that there will be a back door - meaning the compromising of the currency. Otherwise, it may also be a threat if BTC decide against using it as a feature - and a competitor does (and it turns out to be a hit....the majority may not care about the backdoor element ).

patnor1011

Is there any place in Ireland where I can walk in and sell bitcoin for cash? I know about ATM where you can buy bitcoin for cash but is there something similar where I can sell them and get cash?

makeorbrake

patnor1011 wrote: »

Is there any place in Ireland where I can walk in and sell bitcoin for cash? I know about ATM where you can buy bitcoin for cash but is there something similar where I can sell them and get cash?

I doubt that there is - or if there is, I doubt you'd get a reasonable rate. Why not use one of the exchanges. There's an irish based exchange - bitcove - or you have a plethora of european exchanges to choose from. However, you'd be receiving FIAT currency back into your account.

You could try localbitcoins.com - you *might* find someone that's prepared to meetup and exchange btc for cash.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

I've read a number of articles in the past week that suggest that BTC may reach $1500-$3000 equivalency over the coming year. Is that nonsense or is there logic behind it?

No one has any clue. It might or it might not. I've must've read hundreds of predictions over the last 4 years and the vast majority have been wrong

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No one has any clue. It might or it might not. I've must've read hundreds of predictions over the last 4 years and the vast majority have been wrong

Some of them have been wrong, some of them have been right. BTC is supposed to have died around 89 times by now....yet it still endures...