FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTICE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

lake2006

Hello All...Unfortunately I havent the written paper on me but in the contract paper, Question 6b referred to when the courts will imply a term into the contract? Unfortunately I wrote about Oscar Chess etc, i.e when the courts will make a statement amount to a respresentation. Am i correct in saying that was wrong and instead it should have been the business efficiency test etc? Would there be any marks allocated for the "Oscar Chess" approach?

ShamblesB

lake2006 wrote: »

Hello All...Unfortunately I havent the written paper on me but in the contract paper, Question 6b referred to when the courts will imply a term into the contract? Unfortunately I wrote about Oscar Chess etc, i.e when the courts will make a statement amount to a respresentation. Am i correct in saying that was wrong and instead it should have been the business efficiency test etc? Would there be any marks allocated for the "Oscar Chess" approach?

I wrote about business efficacy and officious bystander. I'm not sure if that is what they are looking for but even if it is you would probably get some attempt marks. May I ask what you wrote for question 6 A? I answered that question too but I think I may have misinterpreted it

frustratedTC

Gibbonw2 wrote: »

Dont bother looking at eu again! The more i look at it, the less confident i am!! If you want to get copies just contact law societx with your 3 digit number. Im sure theyl send them down to you. But take a week out, forget about all things fe1. Results long way away so you arent going to get solace stressing over the paper. And best of luck with results. If i get chance ill pm a link with eu exam next week for u

Im so scared about it, I really don't think I've gotten 50. Please God he's a nice marker, he could be correcting as we speak now! When will Law Soc let us know results date?

chops018

frustratedTC wrote: »

Im so scared about it, I really don't think I've gotten 50. Please God he's a nice marker, he could be correcting as we speak now! When will Law Soc let us know results date?

Going on the usual trend of them putting out the results 6 weeks from the last exam I'd say we are looking at Friday, May the 3rd.

Gibbonw2

Friday the 3rd sounds about right. May as well be friday the 13th for me! The worst thing is i was more confident than any of my subjects for EU. Had bad night sleep the previous night (about 4 hours) and then opened up that paper. Ah well. Nothing we can do now! Although we could assemble outside noel travers' office! Let him know our feelings about bloody Hristo, the polish parliament and article 106!

ShamblesB

Gibbonw2 wrote: »

Friday the 3rd sounds about right. May as well be friday the 13th for me! The worst thing is i was more confident than any of my subjects for EU. Had bad night sleep the previous night (about 4 hours) and then opened up that paper. Ah well. Nothing we can do now! Although we could assemble outside noel travers' office! Let him know our feelings about bloody Hristo, the polish parliament and article 106!

Lol! Lets protest!

ShamblesB

Hey, is anyone here familiar with Oran Doyles book for Constitutional? I was having a look at it yesterday and it has large extracts out of the cases, compared to text books for other subjects, and there doesn't seem to be much case law, eg. the right to life only has Re a Ward of Court No.2, McGee v AG and the X case. Does this sound like a suitable book to learn from? I haven't studied Constitutional since first year in college so my memory is a bit hazy! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

RandolphEsq

ShamblesB wrote: »

Hey, is anyone here familiar with Oran Doyles book for Constitutional? I was having a look at it yesterday and it has large extracts out of the cases, compared to text books for other subjects, and there doesn't seem to be much case law, eg. the right to life only has Re a Ward of Court No.2, McGee v AG and the X case. Does this sound like a suitable book to learn from? I haven't studied Constitutional since first year in college so my memory is a bit hazy! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

well it can be said that the materials used for studying are all well and good but one must put the hard-work and dedication in themselves in order to pass the exam. If you understand the chapters in that book and can comfortably talk about the issues, from memory, from those chapters then you will be fine. I didn't have very many cases for constitutional and easily passed.

ShamblesB

RandolphEsq wrote: »

well it can be said that the materials used for studying are all well and good but one must put the hard-work and dedication in themselves in order to pass the exam. If you understand the chapters in that book and can comfortably talk about the issues, from memory, from those chapters then you will be fine. I didn't have very many cases for constitutional and easily passed.

Lol! Well I wasn't planning on bringing the book into the exam so I kind of expected the hard work and dedication part, it's not an ornament I was looking for! but that's grand at least I know that book is suitable I want to get a head start with constitutional because it sounds like its the most difficult! any tips from someone who has it passed?

JCJCJC

ShamblesB wrote: »

Lol! Well I wasn't planning on bringing the book into the exam so I kind of expected the hard work and dedication part, it's not an ornament I was looking for! but that's grand at least I know that book is suitable I want to get a head start with constitutional because it sounds like its the most difficult! any tips from someone who has it passed?

Get Eoin Carolan's notes on the top ten cases for the past three years and be very familiar with exactly why he thinks they are important. Study his examiners' reports also. Know the classic older cases and why they are important too. Study his old papers, and be certain you are able to correctly analyse the question, sometimes it can be hard to decide what area of law he's actually asking. Forget about analysing grids and patterns, this guy starts afresh every time. Do the GCD one-day refresher if it's been a while since you did it in college. Read a few journal articles on Westlaw etc on areas like unconstitutionally-obtained evidence, fair procedures, separation of powers, sovereignty, the AG etc. That's a fair bit and it'll get your head in the right place.

ShamblesB

JCJCJC wrote: »

Get Eoin Carolan's notes on the top ten cases for the past three years and be very familiar with exactly why he thinks they are important. Study his examiners' reports also. Know the classic older cases and why they are important too. Study his old papers, and be certain you are able to correctly analyse the question, sometimes it can be hard to decide what area of law he's actually asking. Forget about analysing grids and patterns, this guy starts afresh every time. Do the GCD one-day refresher if it's been a while since you did it in college. Read a few journal articles on Westlaw etc on areas like unconstitutionally-obtained evidence, fair procedures, separation of powers, sovereignty, the AG etc. That's a fair bit and it'll get your head in the right place.

Thank you. Where can I get his top 10 cases? Yeah I haven't done it in so long so I think I should do a course, I'm starting to read the book at the minute to get an understanding of it rather than just learning to pass an exam... It seems to be the toughest according to people on this thread so I think starting early is the best bet... And the examiners reports aren't a great help because he doesn't go through the questions individually and I've heard of a lot of people misinterpreting questions for that exam!

Tom Young

UCD Constitutional Studies group once a year! He delivers a paper on same - usually!

JCJCJC

ShamblesB wrote: »

Thank you. Where can I get his top 10 cases? Yeah I haven't done it in so long so I think I should do a course, I'm starting to read the book at the minute to get an understanding of it rather than just learning to pass an exam... It seems to be the toughest according to people on this thread so I think starting early is the best bet... And the examiners reports aren't a great help because he doesn't go through the questions individually and I've heard of a lot of people misinterpreting questions for that exam!

Tom Young has told you where to get the EC papers - absolutely essential reading. I don't think it's the toughest, for me EU was a nightmare, but it is one exam where it pays to play to the examiner's style and preferences. He likes really fresh law and his problem questions explore fairly topical issues. It is no harm though to have read one of the classic textbooks anyway and be able to quote something from them - he doesn't like a learnt-by-rote prep school style, unfortunately. You haven't said when you're going to sit the exam. Even if you are aiming for next Spring, do the GCD one-day in the autumn, it'll give you a very structured approach to studying wisely, it's no harm at all to do those courses six months in advance. I did them in every subject because it was a few years since I graduated, and I did the full course of on-line lectures from GCD on EU only.

ananas

I think that there's so much hype surrounding the exams that's completely unnecessary. EU and Constitutional have been elevated to these terrifying exams that everyone fails and you need to dedicate more time to them than the others. Don't get into a mental black- do your manuals, do past exam papers and keep an eye open for any big changes in the law. Do not go trawling through books- total waste of time.

Gibbonw2

I disagree. Manuals are essentially notes, and are often misguiding. Take independents Eu manual for example and try and sit this years exam with just that at hand. You will struggle to answer a lot of questions. Constitutional law is an even better example, such a wide branching of knowledge is needed to get a firm confident grasp of the subject. I find its refreshing to read exterior sources along with the manuals. You never have too much space in your brain for information and by reading various sources you may get that 'oh yeah, now I get it!' moment. Law isnt scientific in that it is very muddled up but certain important aspects have a scientific element to them that needs to be put into practice. I think the reason why so many fail is that there isnt an opportunity to 'practice' exam technique. You go into an exam and its just 'brain vomit'!

ananas

I just did manuals and a one day course for constitutional and passed everything first time around. Most people I knew did the same and passed.

Gibbonw2

As did i actually when i sat constitutional law last march but i wouldnt depend on those manuals and the lecturers in the courses advise you to supplement. if you have access to library material, use it. Even using the internet to read an article. It breaks up study patterns and reading an article on the internet on, say the marie fleming case or the savita case (which arent updated in your manuals nor more than likely wont be come 2 months time) takes you away from the manual for 15 minutes, keeps you in study mode while also enhances your knowledge on important examinable topical areas. There are subjects like contract where all you need is the manual, past papers to get you by but there if you are seeking to rely on outdated manuals for fast moving dynamic law like constitutional you are very much diminishing your chances of passing. Admittedly, as i said, i didnt use a book for constitutional law but i did use web articles to update my sources and caselaw and supplement my notes. Remember, the examiner is correcting 100s of these exams and for him to see something 'different' is refreshing for him.

Gibbonw2

But as i said, you can have all the reading in the world done and if you cant master the tenets that are exam technique and retention of info you are more often than not going to fail these exams.

doing

ananas wrote: »

I just did manuals and a one day course for constitutional and passed everything first time around. Most people I knew did the same and passed.

Around 50% fail. My manual for Equity was missing half the DMC cases compared to how the same topic was covered in my property manual, and it covered rescission and rectification in far less detail than my contract manual in terms of cases covered. For all I know the rest of the course wasn't covered in enough detail either.

If the manual is missing lots of cases, what else can I do but get a text book?

ananas

It's undisputed that plenty of people fail. All I'm offering is my own experience of studying with the manuals and passing 8. Some courses offer better manuals than others- which is why I said to look at the exam papers and practice your exam technique. Obviously if something isn't covered in the manual in enough detail, supplement it with material from the books but having the books as your fort port of call is not going to help you pass these exams.

Going into reams of detail that you get in a book on a dmc for example will just eat into the time you have for the other questions. You're not going to get marks for academic digress when you have 5 Qs to answer in 3 hours.

That's my advice to those sitting the exams. I don't like when I see people panicking and looking for extra material when 90% of the time, the manual will suffice. Others may have a different approach but I know what worked for me and you just need the 50 to pass.

frustratedTC

Is it generally 50% for constitutional fail? Maybe I was reading the exam reports with my eyes closed, but I never came across the amount he passed or failed in constitutional. EU seemed to have a decent pass rate, much in line with the other subjects, I imagine there will be a sharp dip this sitting though, especially considering how many just walked out after seeing that paper. I still don't even know where to begin with it. For the Q comparing EU to national parliaments, I was very stuck and basically just waffled about how in the Irish parliament the legislative function is reserved to the Oireachtas, while at EU level it is split between the 3 organs. I wonder was he looking for something specific for that part. Sickening paper.

frustratedTC

ananas wrote: »

It's undisputed that plenty of people fail. All I'm offering is my own experience of studying with the manuals and passing 8. Some courses offer better manuals than others- which is why I said to look at the exam papers and practice your exam technique. Obviously if something isn't covered in the manual in enough detail, supplement it with material from the books but having the books as your fort port of call is not going to help you pass these exams.

Going into reams of detail that you get in a book on a dmc for example will just eat into the time you have for the other questions. You're not going to get marks for academic digress when you have 5 Qs to answer in 3 hours.

That's my advice to those sitting the exams. I don't like when I see people panicking and looking for extra material when 90% of the time, the manual will suffice. Others may have a different approach but I know what worked for me and you just need the 50 to pass.

I agree with you, you only have 30 mins per Question, which is really only 4 - 5 pages of writing, its not like a masters or undergrad where your expected to go into detail as you have 2 questions in 2 hours. Some years will be unlucky as the manual wont suffice though, like IC didn't have EU criminal law for EU and a lot of people I have spoken to answered the Hirsto question by reference to citizenship. Did Griffith have EU Criminal law? But in all other sittings that manual would have been sufficient, it was just that dreaded sitting that a lot of us were unlucky to have to go through!

doing

ananas wrote: »

It's undisputed that plenty of people fail. All I'm offering is my own experience of studying with the manuals and passing 8. Some courses offer better manuals than others- which is why I said to look at the exam papers and practice your exam technique. Obviously if something isn't covered in the manual in enough detail, supplement it with material from the books but having the books as your fort port of call is not going to help you pass these exams.

Going into reams of detail that you get in a book on a dmc for example will just eat into the time you have for the other questions. You're not going to get marks for academic digress when you have 5 Qs to answer in 3 hours.

That's my advice to those sitting the exams. I don't like when I see people panicking and looking for extra material when 90% of the time, the manual will suffice. Others may have a different approach but I know what worked for me and you just need the 50 to pass.

Believe me I'm not looking to go off on a tangent or write a dissertation in the middle of an exam, I'm just pretty annoyed that I was asked a question on whether DMC applies in case of suicide/euthanasia/murder and the cases that were in my property manual that would have covered it weren't in my Equity manual. It'll be pretty frustrating to have written all the relevant cases your manual gave you and fail.

The 50% is bell curved so in reality getting 50% isn't as simple as just putting down a half decent answer. We know it's bell curved because there's only so many places available at Blackhall, never mind apprenticeships, but anyone with a degree and 105 euro a subject can sit the exams. Not to mention if it isn't bell curved we're all thick, as 70% in a non bell curved exam is very ordinary, but in the FE1's is considered fantastic.

I might just try a manual from a different FE1 prep school next time rather than get a textbook as you all seem to think that's unnecessary.

ShamblesB

frustratedTC wrote: »

I agree with you, you only have 30 mins per Question, which is really only 4 - 5 pages of writing, its not like a masters or undergrad where your expected to go into detail as you have 2 questions in 2 hours. Some years will be unlucky as the manual wont suffice though, like IC didn't have EU criminal law for EU and a lot of people I have spoken to answered the Hirsto question by reference to citizenship. Did Griffith have EU Criminal law? But in all other sittings that manual would have been sufficient, it was just that dreaded sitting that a lot of us were unlucky to have to go through!

Was Hirsto not supposed to be answered by reference to citizenship? Oops! Just when I thought I couldn't have done any worse in that exam!

frustratedTC

im not completely sure on that, just heard someone say it was eu criminal law, a lot of people seemed to answer it tho as a citizenship question, so perhaps it was, can anyone clarify?

ShamblesB

In my undergrad eu criminal law wasn't even mentioned! Didn't think that was even on the syllabus... Yeah could someone please clarify!

ShamblesB

Oh and I answered the difference between EP and MS Parliaments along the same lines as you! Don't know what he was looking for there!

frustratedTC

ShamblesB wrote: »

In my undergrad eu criminal law wasn't even mentioned! Didn't think that was even on the syllabus... Yeah could someone please clarify!

Had a look at the syllabus and EU criminal law isn't on it, so must have been citizenship

Nemanrio

Gibbonw2 wrote: »

As did i actually when i sat constitutional law last march but i wouldnt depend on those manuals and the lecturers in the courses advise you to supplement. if you have access to library material, use it. Even using the internet to read an article. It breaks up study patterns and reading an article on the internet on, say the marie fleming case or the savita case (which arent updated in your manuals nor more than likely wont be come 2 months time) takes you away from the manual for 15 minutes, keeps you in study mode while also enhances your knowledge on important examinable topical areas. There are subjects like contract where all you need is the manual, past papers to get you by but there if you are seeking to rely on outdated manuals for fast moving dynamic law like constitutional you are very much diminishing your chances of passing. Admittedly, as i said, i didnt use a book for constitutional law but i did use web articles to update my sources and caselaw and supplement my notes. Remember, the examiner is correcting 100s of these exams and for him to see something 'different' is refreshing for him.

Hi Gibbon,

Where on the internet would be the best places to looking for good articles?

Thanks in advance.

C2012

Hello,

I am new to this thread and I am hoping to sit between 4 and 6 of the exams in October. Realistically, when should i start studying and how many hours a day should i be spending. I am thinking of doing the griffith course or at least using there manuals.

I have been reading the posts about the actual exams, a bit scary:( but i would be grateful if people could reply to give me an idea of different study patterns, I am aware that everyone is different at studying but it would be interesting to know.

Also does anyone know where you can get second hand manuals because they are so expensive to buy new.

Thanks a mill in advance guys