Formula 1 2013: Round 2 - Malaysian Grand Prix

mickdw

Hope vettel gets pay back for this. Foolish foolish move. No doubt he realises as triple champion there is not a whole pile anyone can do with him. Still he will need webber to play ball somewhere along the line and there is no chance of that now.
There is a hell of alot of bad feeling over this. Not good for redbull brand. Not good for title sponsor either.
I was disgusted when he earlier asked to get webber out of the way. It wasnt that he asked, it was the tone of how he said it. There is no respect there for webber. He sounded like he thought webber was sh1t.

recyclebin

I hope Webber can bottle that anger and bring it in the form of pace for the next couple of races and put Vettel in his place.

SantryRed

Great video and all that went on during the race between Vettel and Webber and the Red Bull team:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyft1o_sebastian-vettel-vs-mark-webber-2013-malaysian-grand-prix-team-radio-extra_auto#.UU-OCb9Xvww

Cookie_Monster

ratedR wrote: »

The way the tyres and fuel are dictating the racing is terrible.?

This is the main point of yesterday that everyone overlooks, the majority of a race these days is just a fuel and tyre management exercise.

The FIA should demand a minimum fuel quantity in excess of predicted race demand for each race.

counterlock

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

This is the main point of yesterday that everyone overlooks, the majority of a race these days is just a fuel and tyre management exercise.

The FIA should demand a minimum fuel quantity in excess of predicted race demand for each race.

They should just bring back refueling, to this day I've no idea why they got rid of it.

3ndahalfof6

counterlock wrote: »

They should just bring back refueling, to this day I've no idea why they got rid of it.

Or splash and dash even, while fueling was stopped for saftey reasons, something needs to be done to try to get the racing back to being the most important part of the race.

Rascasse

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

This is the main point of yesterday that everyone overlooks, the majority of a race these days is just a fuel and tyre management exercise.

The FIA should demand a minimum fuel quantity in excess of predicted race demand for each race.

That is impossible to enforce. Merc took a gamble in expecting the rain to last longer than it did and lost. They were lucky it didn't cost them.

There is a drive for efficiency amongst manufacturers and next year's cars are limited to 100kg (or 140ish litres). You could tell the teams to start with a full tank but that would penalise the most efficient engines. Or you could bring back refuelling, but then there would be no point making the engines efficient. The current system for fuel is probably the best way. Tyres, however, have probably gone too far.

Cookie_Monster

counterlock wrote: »

They should just bring back refueling, to this day I've no idea why they got rid of it.

better again, just need to do it like Nascar, a guy with a tank, no need for all the expensive, heavy fancy equipment.

Tyres need to be looked at certainly. I'd like to see more sets so the race is not so compromised, and/or a defined split between quali and race

BaZmO*

A lot of people are missing the point of team orders here. Webber was also following team orders by cutting back his engine. Fair enough if he was told to just race to the finish, but Vettel knew Webber had cut back and he showed a total lack of class by jumping his team mate.

counterlock

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

better again, just need to do it like Nascar, a guy with a tank, no need for all the expensive, heavy fancy equipment.

Tyres need to be looked at certainly. I'd like to see more sets so the race is not so compromised, and/or a defined split between quali and race

They should make the pitcrews like the Nascar guys, two for both front wheels and two for the back.

BaZmO*

Oh and just to add, what's with Coulthard blatently showing his Red Bull colours sticking up for Vettel when he had no problem having a pop at Rosberg for answering back when he was congratulated for following his team orders. The way Coulthard was going on you'd swear Vettel was a first year rookie.

mickdw

BaZmO* wrote: »

Oh and just to add, what's with Coulthard blatently showing his Red Bull colours sticking up for Vettel when he had no problem having a pop at Rosberg for answering back when he was congratulated for following his team orders. The way Coulthard was going on you'd swear Vettel was a first year rookie.

Coultard at this stage id say has a pretty casual relationship with red bull. Well worth his while to keep them sweet. Very unprofessional to be biased when working for a public service broadcaster.

EireIceMan

BaZmO* wrote: »

Oh and just to add, what's with Coulthard blatently showing his Red Bull colours sticking up for Vettel when he had no problem having a pop at Rosberg for answering back when he was congratulated for following his team orders. The way Coulthard was going on you'd swear Vettel was a first year rookie.

Ah yes, but knowledgeable or not, isnt Coulthard widely regarded as a gob****e. As an 'independant' pundit, he lets hits thoughts known. He needs something now Schumis gone

Zcott

Worth considering what Webber's reaction would have been had he been in second and running faster than a P1 Vettel.

BaZmO*

Zcott wrote: »

Worth considering what Webber's reaction would have been had he been in second and running faster than a P1 Vettel.

Well given his past record he would've obeyed team orders.

jordainius

Mental Mickey wrote: »

It's not racing when stupid team orders are in effect. They(the FIA) need to do away with them. It's become too predictable - too boring.

I'm not mad about team orders but the teams have every right to enforce them if they so choose, the two drivers are just two members of a work force of a few hundred members.

Seb put his own interests ahead of every single member of that team, not just Webber. Yesterday he decided he doesn't give a f**k about all the guys who year after year have contributed to providing him with a highly competitive car. The team are fully entitled to instruct their employees to do whatever they see fit, and in the case of the drivers at Red Bull they are both paid very well by the team to follow those instructions.

Trampas

I can't wait for EJ reaction to the Vettel and Webber incident.

Just from an owner side of things

jordainius

Trampas wrote: »

I can't wait for EJ reaction to the Vettel and Webber incident.

Just from an owner side of things

I suppose he has experience from Spa 1998, and to his credit Ralf obeyed despite being something crazy like 4 or 5 seconds a lap quicker than Damon Hill.

SlickRic

this is all quite simple.

this is not about whether we want racing or not. of course we do, and in an ideal world, there would be no team orders, especially this early in the season.

but Vettel received a clear message to bring the cars home safely. whether we think they should have been racing or not, that is a team order. Webber turned down the engine, started saving the tyres, and Vettel completely screwed him over.

i've no doubt Webber could've held him at bay if he'd been at 100%.

he is also not sorry in the slightest by the way. he has to look it to save face for Red Bull, but he had no remorse. it was not a mistake. he is not an idiot.

i've lost a whole heap of respect for Vettel after this.

it was Webber's race. his crew nailed the strategy. he was rightly winning the race, and Vettel caught him completely off guard.

someone called him a snake. that sounds about right.

as i say, simple. i'd have liked them to race, but Vettel should've adhered to team orders. and he's a shít for not doing so.

BostonB

Vettel sucker punched him.

I think Webber has few choices. Hes not no1 hes not the team favourite and hes not faster. He can only suck it up and driver better and hope an opportunity comes up in the future, either to drive with another team, or do better in his existing team.

But its really negative publicity for RB and Vettel.

Grim.

marialouise

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Christian Horner talks to Vettel. Just imagining would it take 1 minute to say what he has to say, would they be just talking or would there be voice raising and awkward silences? I'm so curious! :rolleyes:

Myrddin

I doubt very much will be said about it at all, sure in Marks own words "Seb will have protection as always". I'd say the only bollocking he will get is for causing any potential PR fallout from his actions. The fact is he's mostly taken Red Bull to three Drivers titles & three constructors titles, disobeying a team order won't carry too much punishment for him

mickdw

marialouise wrote: »

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Christian Horner talks to Vettel. Just imagining would it take 1 minute to say what he has to say, would they be just talking or would there be voice raising and awkward silences? I'm so curious! :rolleyes:

Golden boy wont have anything said to him except try not to take each other off. You can be sure this is the result the team wanted anyway regardless of how it came about.
Im sure vettel and Dr marko will be of the opinion that mark should be moving aside anyway regardless of what was said to media.
Vettel now 14 ahead of webber and in lead of championship when they should both have same score if webber won. This is the kind of thing that decides championships.

BostonB

Have to agree. Nothing will be said to Vettel. Webber will have grin and bear it, or leave. Unless he does better which isn't likely. If you look at it another way, would RB prefer for Webber to be the next WDC or for Vettel to win it again. Obviously its going to be the latter. Webber has to suck as much out of RB he can whiles hes still there. Hes has to do it in a way that won't destroy his chances of moving to another team. hes never been the luckiest and it doesn't look like that will change.

Myrddin

I'd say this could likely be Webbers last yeaar at RB, possibly even in F1. Where do you go when you step outside the best car on the grid? The only way is down, & he may not want to go down that road

BostonB

I can't see him getting a seat anywhere else tbh.

mickdw

EnterNow wrote: »

I'd say this could likely be Webbers last yeaar at RB, possibly even in F1. Where do you go when you step outside the best car on the grid? The only way is down, & he may not want to go down that road

Ya he will probably finish up after this year.
Cant see him being anyway accommodating for the rest of the year.

BaZmO*

mickdw wrote: »

Golden boy wont have anything said to him except try not to take each other off.

Apart from it being a PR disaster, why would they say anything to him. Along with that, I'd say the only thing the team will be p1ssed about is the nature of his overtaking.

mickdw wrote: »

You can be sure this is the result the team wanted anyway regardless of how it came about.

100%

mickdw wrote: »

This is the kind of thing that decides championships.

Or you could say, "This is the kind of thing that wins championships"

Vettel won the championship by 3pts. in 2012 and by 4pts. in 2010, so maybe that's what made up his mind for him.

Scotty #

Imagine for a moment that Vettel had followed orders yesterday and TV viewers didn't get to hear radio messages. We would have had 20+ laps if Vettel trailing Webber and Rosberg trailing Hamilton to the finish and everyone would be up in arms about how this was wrong and damaging to F1. And rightly so!

I'm delighted Vettel passed Webber! I'm only sorry Rosberg didn't do the same to Hamilton. It's an awful shame to see 'race' highlights made up of conversation transcripts. Is this really what F1 has sunk to?

Team orders should not be allowed (as long as there is a drivers championship). If you heard a horse was held back in a race or a goalie or any other athlete was being told to under-perform there would be uproar. F1 is in serious danger of becoming the WWE of Motorsport.

I'd also like to see the day return where the only way a team has to communicate with a driver is via a pit board.

Anyone, who found any bit of excitement in the last 20 laps of yesterdays race should be praising Vettel today and should be emailing RedBull and the FIA to tell them this is what we want to see from now on.