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Táiniste snubs men-only dinner in Georgia

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    #62
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Turns out our second most senior Judge attended and was on the list of guest speakers.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-judge-went-to-event-snubbed-by-tanaiste-over-ban-on-women-29136437.html


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    #63
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I still thing being bothered by men only organisations is a side show to very real issues that affect women every day such as the cost of child care, the lack of flexible working arrangements and so on.
    My father was a member of one of the clubs on Stephen's green and I've been a guest of a number of these organizations over the years. All I can say is they're all a bit of a joke if advancement your primary interest.

    Reality is that if you want to network, you're a lot better off doing so through LinkedIn, personal contacts, over lunch or - particularly - over a few pints. You're more likely to find business or employment through your circle of former college friends than you would through any of these dying male-only institutions (be they clubs, associations or sports clubs); and they are dying as they're membership has been declining for years, many have gone out of business, or merged with others, or been forced to seek female members just to keep from going extinct.

    No doubt some old-boys networking still exists in such places, but it's an absolutely tiny percentage of the business and political networking that takes place.

    The old-boys network may have been influential once, especially for areas such as the professions in particular, fifty or a hundred years ago, but things have changed - it's a patriarchal institution that has all but died out and at this stage as realistic a conspiracy theory as the one about lizardmen ruling the World through the Illuminati.

    Women are under-represented in many areas of business and politics principally because the prejudices that say that women should be the homemakers and child carers are still with us and pretty much every study that's been done on this supports this conclusion. And unless this is dealt with directly, it doesn't matter how many quotas and women's only associations you have, you're still going to have to pick up the kids after school.


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    #64
    yohan the great
    Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭yohan the great


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Would you say the same if it was a whites only event?
    What? Like the dail then?


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    #65
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    shoos wrote: »
    More of the article here - http://www.thejournal.ie/eamon-gilmore-all-male-dinner-savannah-834916-Mar2013/?utm_source=facebook

    I'm really surprised to hear that he refused, I couldn't have imagined many of the men in the Dáil to give a toss about men-only clubs or dinners. But seeing this, I have to think fair to play to Gilmore!

    There's been the usual response of "women have their female only dinners and events all the time", "it's PC gone mad" etc.

    But female only events, especially in the field of politics or business, are there because females are a minority. I really don't see the weight behind that argument.

    Thoughts?

    Good for him. People applaud people like Lawrence Krauss for walking out on a debate on religion because the organizers (a Muslim group) were attempting to segregate the audience (they stopped when he refused to go on), but some how this sort of nonsense is all too often considered harmless and quaint.


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    #66
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    When it comes to Irish America, you snub one group you may as well snub them all. This was a stupid thing to do on his part and for the country.


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    #67
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,187 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Probably thought 'sausage fest, give this a miss'.


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    #68
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    Morag wrote: »
    Turns out our second most senior Judge attended and was on the list of guest speakers.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-judge-went-to-event-snubbed-by-tanaiste-over-ban-on-women-29136437.html

    According to this piece
    Mr Gilmore went to Atlanta and New Orleans, including a dinner by the local Hibernian society. It was open to both men and women.
    He didn't snub anyone in my opinion, he amended his itinerary to ensure that he wasn't going to be invited to something and have to potentially embarrass them/us by saying no. In the circumstances, I think that was a good call.
    Obviously the Hibernian Society dinner that he did attend on the trip has no problem with women; lumping every Irish American in with the 'boys club' type of men in the Savannah club is lazy and too easy. They are as diverse a bunch as the rest of us.


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    #69
    moon_man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 48 ✭moon_man


    gilmore playing to the pc liberal gallery


    im sure all eleven of them will be delighted and turn up to vote accordingly


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    #70
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,322 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    What kind of person wants to join a club where there not well come?

    Men have men's clubs, women have women's. There's straight bars, gay bars.

    I always think of the time Lisa Simpson started a campaign to be allowed join a boys sports team. It transpired girls could join, and she actually didn't want to join.


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    #71
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    dissed doc wrote: »
    I think it's a sign of massive insecurity. You have to meet people on their terms; the world will not adjust itself to your own personal moral code, no matter how righteous or not it is.

    You buy in your language, but you sell in others'. A complete failure and serves only to grandstand political immaturity. Being unable to engage with other people on their terms, while remaining secure in your own stance and beliefs, does not serve long term economic or political advancement.

    Any person can attend any event in their personal capacity, men only, women only, catholic or Jewish only. But when a person is attending representing this republic then it is a different matter. I for one have no personal issue with any only organisations. But if I was invited to one, I would go but, if I was a TD or minister or other office holder of the state I would refuse to go. He is not Mr. Gilmore when he attends he is Tanaiste of Ireland and as such he or ireland can not be seen to segregate based on sex, creed or colour.


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    #72
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    ted1 wrote: »
    I always think of the time Lisa Simpson started a campaign to be allowed join a boys sports team. It transpired girls could join, and she actually didn't want to join.

    What a nice fictional straw feminist you have there.


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    #73
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,322 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Morag wrote: »

    What a nice fictional straw feminist you have there.
    I guess light humour is lost on you, which is a bit ironic..


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    #74
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    ted1 wrote: »
    I guess light humour is lost on you, which is a bit ironic..
    Ho ho yes because feminists don't have a sense of humour, right? Right?

    Bloody hell - is this really where we're at in the debate about equal rights?


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    #75
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,322 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Macha wrote: »
    Ho ho yes because feminists don't have a sense of humour, right? Right?

    Bloody hell - is this really where we're at in the debate about equal rights?

    You shouldn't stereotype, not all feminists are the same.
    This iis not about equal rights, its about the rights to choose who you spend time with by forming a club.

    Out of interest was Gilmores wife on the trip? Maybe he didn't want to leave her and that's why he didn't go


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    #76
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Macha wrote: »
    Ho ho yes because feminists don't have a sense of humour, right? Right?

    Bloody hell - is this really where we're at in the debate about equal rights?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRW7DjYxTyk


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    #77
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    ted1 wrote: »
    You shouldn't stereotype, not all feminists are the same.
    This iis not about equal rights, its about the rights to choose who you spend time with by forming a club.

    Out of interest was Gilmores wife on the trip? Maybe he didn't want to leave her and that's why he didn't go

    So what is the problem with Eamonn Gilmore exercising his right to 'choose who he spends time with'?


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    #78
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    ted1 wrote: »
    You shouldn't stereotype, not all feminists are the same.
    This iis not about equal rights, its about the rights to choose who you spend time with by forming a club.

    Out of interest was Gilmores wife on the trip? Maybe he didn't want to leave her and that's why he didn't go

    According to an article linked further back by Morag (Irish Independent one I think), yes his wife was on the trip and would not have been welcomed at the dinner, had he been going to Savannah and had he been invited.


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